Guillot filed a complaint that Saez used an electronic device to surge WTC in the stretch. Guillot\'s brother said he saw Saez move something from one hand to the other and under his pant during the gallop out. We shall see but this could be another black eye. trainers are one thing but if its both trainers & jockeys - Ouch!
watched the video...looked like he put something under saddle cloth
Jerry Bailey will analyze this on the NBC show at 4.
Typical of the sport. NBC had to cover the story but they story was very short and didn\'t show the part where it looked like Saez was tucking something with his left hand under the saddle. Would love to see an angle from the infield.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1wwPKz4-ZzzeWtMSW4wOHFnOEk/edit
You may have to watch this 20 times, but as nutty as the man might be, it does look a bit weird.
It was actually a Stun Gun. When he pulled next to Verazanno he shot him and knocked him woosy and then applied a more modest shock to his own runner....
This is TOTAL garbage. Only fools make these accusations and.the same.people.failed to.point.out out.the slightly.open right palm on.the Jocks right.hand 20 yards after the wire. I guess it was supposed to fall.out then and it.didnt so he tucked.it.
Guillot.has his 1 hour in the Sun. Now go.back under the Rock.he came.from......
I know the guy has a rep as a bit of a wild man, but is he so deranged as to make an baseless accusation like this with such \'flimsy\' evidence.
I\'ll assume he\'s seen enough in his day to make him think its not so far fetched.
Has he ever said anything else like this, so that you\'d say this was a pattern of his?
the most worthless comments are those that attack who said something, rather than analyze the content of what was said.
if you find the charge preposterous, point why on based on the footage or other evidence.
cheating in this sport is as old as the sport. and lukas made a pretty loud audible in switching jockeys between races, even though the original jock rode WTC to his best finish in the horse\'s last 4 races. lukas stressed the change was made because he thought the new rider would be \"more aggressive.\"
as someone who puts money on these races, i\'d think you\'d be happy whenever someone raises questions about a race\'s legitimacy. sunshine has always been the best disinfectant, and the best way to open the curtains and let in more sunlight, is to make the sport feel uncomfortable.
i don\'t know if the accusation is true or not, but i wouldn\'t be surprised at all if it is.
You know, this brought up the 1995 Derby, an incident I don\'t recall too well.
But I\'ve looked at the vid on youtube (Zapruder style) and ,granted, 1995 was pre Bernie Madoff and folks were still naive, but it\'s hard to believe they passed that off as a \'shadow\'.
Two seconds before there was ZERO shadow on his outstretched hand. Weird KY sun?
Saez, through his agent Richard DePass, denied the allegation.
"It's absurd for someone to make an accusation like that," DePass said by phone from Florida. "We deny it one million percent. We're going to get an attorney and pursue this vigorously."
Boscar,
The vid is interesting. The statement by Depass i find interesting as well.
Using the word absurd to describe something that\'s for all intents and purposes
not that absurd. If it is absurd why are they even denying it versus \"no comment\",let alone denying it a million percent and then playing the attorney
card?
At any rate, it\'s stated in DRF state poliz will investigate due to their expertise in video analysis. Btw, thanks for the video.
Flighted
This brings to mind the 1999 Arkansas Derby...jockey Billy Patin clearly drops something to the track, easily visible in the replay. I seem to remember as well a track employee seeing this when it happened, and finding the device.
As for the \'95 Kentucky Derby incident, which I\'d not heard of until today on this board...after watching the NBC replay on YouTube, it does look odd. Frame by frame would be interesting...but without that capability, the replay to my eyes is inconclusive. I had never heard about the FunnyCide, Santos claims either, which came to nothing.
NBC sports coverage by Bailey shows slo motion/stop footage of each hand clearly open with nothing visible.Much more revealing than Y-Tube.Whole incident came from Guillot\'s brother who felt WTC surged right at the wire and believed it to be from an electric shock device(Louisianans\' a bit famous for that)Believe from the voice in the YouTube video, it\'s a good old Cajun,maybe Guillot\'s bro?
Guillot has conducted himself like a classless pig on many occasions at the SPA including a little voodoo doll of TAP with jinx pins in it,fking imbecile not close to being comedic.
Cheating always out there but this appears to be a suckers holler from a classless bunch of hicks,at least as far as the NBC footage shows.
Mike
Well said Mike. The sport and this board to an extent is getting to the point where every race is being.won by someone who crossed the line using performance enhancer that are illegal or a device or sometjing.....
I dont believe it....there are to many good.hard working people with integrity involved and certain controls and reputations. If things have gotten to point where everything you see is implied to be crooked I want out of the game as a fan....
Good Morning All,
I\'ve been reading the Travers posts this morning and it serves as a wake up call. We\'re all TG players and I\'m sure we\'ve all had big plays messed up by questionable runners. I\'m a Midwest player and I can tell you that at the Kentucky and Illinois tracks that you MUST factor in the tote board which makes it almost impossible to play ahead of time. There have been times where I\'ve had to pass on races because a horse that in the graph was a throw out was being bet out of the norm. I realize that this happens everywhere but it seems like the amount of questionable races is increasing. I\'m sure the convenience of on-line wagering as adding to the equation. Another phenomena that I\'m seeing are odds dropping extremely late. When I\'ve questioned it I\'ve been told that it\'s the delay in transferring on-line wagers into the pools. With the speed bias at Arlington on the main track you can be certain that the odds will drop on the leader. I am not making accusations, just sharing my observations and concerns for a sport that we all love.
Did you notice anything strange about the post race interview of Saez?
All of this now makes me want to take a closer look at how WTC was able to get up and beat Oxbow, then be absolutely nowhere in any of the Triple Crown races.
Well said and completely agree.
Animal Loons reportedly filing an additional official complaint with NY State Police re alleged abuse of WTC.Under NY State law the complaint must be investigated as a separate matter from the NYRA investigation and the current State Police investigation from the Guillot one.
Nice use of taxpayer dollars.......
fwiw, looking at the super-sow-mo, magnified footage, it looks to me like saez pulls something off the knot in the reins with his right hand and moves it to his left hand, but it\'s not as obvious as the hand off between stevens and day in 1995...
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1wwPKz4-ZzzeWtMSW4wOHFnOEk/edit?pli=1
putting a buzzer in the knot would be pretty smart if you could get it to stay there-- it\'s already on the neck where it needs to be, can be easily moved to either side of the neck, and the reins and bridle aren\'t part of the weigh-in. don\'t know if buzzers have shrunk but even the classic buzzer probably could go noticed in the knot, since it\'s black and only the size of a lighter.
watching the race replay, WTC didn\'t look like he had much left at the top of the stretch, when orb takes the lead. he still hadn\'t passed verazano and romanish, who were backing up quickly (1:54). and wasn\'t really making up any ground--seemed to be running in place to me.
he weaves out at the very top of the stretch, saez hits his neck with his right hand (his whip is in the left hand), then WTC weaves back in at 1:59, which is when he starts to close the gap finally...didn\'t look like orb or moreno were weaving very much,even though orb was clearly on fumes. palace malice looked to be the freshest at the end. it\'s always hard to tell if a surge is surge or an illusion, but when WTC finally passed verazano and romanish--who were almost walking, it didn\'t look like a surge...but i doubt it\'s enough to hang him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr97Rr9lXCM
if saez does happen to go down miraculously, well-played lukas. he\'ll lay all the blame on a nobody jock. doubt guillot could get much action from the stewards on this, but i wonder if pletcher, shug, janey, phipps, and dogwood stables are quietly pressing the case behind the scenes? helps a lot of people if orb is 2nd and palace malice is 3rd.
anywho, doubt anything will happen, but WTC has effectively been removed from the 3 yo eclipse discussion (but he shouldn\'t have been part of it anyway)
the only investigations in human sports that were able to uncover cheating--besides the one-off positives of nobody athletes thrown under the bus to make the doping controls look legit, were those involving crimes investigated by police.
not sure what an animal loon is, but i guess i\'d probably fall into that category since i support animal welfare rights--including the animal welfare units of police forces all over the country...curious where you draw the line--it\'s ok to to shock and/or dope an animal for amusement and monetary gain, but not ok for a small time horse owner struggling to pay bills to allow his horse to starve since he can\'t afford feed and is unable to locate an alternative home for the horse, even when giving it away?
not too long ago, i called the animal rescue unit of my local police department on two downed horses that i saw in a what was obviously the paddock of a far from prosperous person. i felt terrible about it since the owner most likely wasn\'t a jerk but just couldn\'t afford to care for his horses, but the horses needed help badly, and unfortunately, owners can\'t call the unit to help them when their horses (or any animals) need help they can\'t afford to provide. and i sure as heck, didn\'t feel one bit of guilt for the 1/4 of a cent each of my fellow tax payers contributed to that effort.
however, the million plus dollars per death row inmate and the $20,000 per year per prison inmate i have to contribute $500 to every year irks the hell out of me. something tells me those expenses don\'t bother you, as much as the 1/4 of a cent...
After review, his awkwardness is probably due to his unfamiliarity with the English language. If he had stashed a buzzer under the saddlecloth, wouldn\'t it have spilled out when he weighed in?
kekomi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not sure what an animal loon is, but i guess i\'d
> probably fall into that category since i support
> animal welfare rights--including the animal
> welfare units of police forces all over the
> country...curious where you draw the line--it\'s ok
> to to shock and/or dope an animal for amusement
> and monetary gain, but not ok for a small time
> horse owner struggling to pay bills to allow his
> horse to starve since he can\'t afford feed and is
> unable to locate an alternative home for the
> horse, even when giving it away?
> >
> however, the million plus dollars per death row
> inmate and the $20,000 per year per prison inmate
> i have to contribute $500 to every year irks the
> hell out of me. something tells me those expenses
> don\'t bother you, as much as the 1/4 of a cent...
Kekomi - Not sure even how to respond to this as you are all over the place. First you make the assumption that I think it\'s ok to dope/shock and animal and then you go into a rant about paying for humans on death row. You have no idea where I stand on either issue so I suggest you stick to the facts (although that seems to be your tendency - making wild assumptions based on limited to no information). My only point was to suggest that it is a waste of money to utilize a state agency to pursue animal rights charges when they are already engaged in the NYRA investigation. If the NYRA investigation proves fruitful (which I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe it will) then by all means, add the animal rights charges onto whatever they charge/fine him.
Awfully quiet regarding the NYSRWB\'s \"investigation\".
MO Wrote:
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> Awfully quiet regarding the NYSRWB\'s
> \"investigation\".
The ol\' ostrich / head in sand / \"if you ignore it, it\'ll go away\" strategy
Must be a very thorough investigation.
last I heard about a week or 10 days ago was that they were still gathering the video for the race, unbelievable.
Please people, this has been three races in a row where Will Take Charge has SURGED resolutely in the last 1/16th of mile with 2 different jockeys at two different tracks.
This is a one paced run all day type who should be a beast next year as he fills out because at no point does he ever look like he is running fast enough to hurt himself. The best thing that ever happened to Will Take Charge is that Wayne already had Oxbow as a 3YO contender and he could be patient with this one.
Was only reflecting on the amount of time this is taking, not the charges. No pun intended.
If the accusation is frivolous, then it really shouldn\'t take this long, imo.
Classless Cajuns will have to make another excuse!
@DRFHegarty: NY Gaming Comm. has concluded \"Luis Saez was not carrying any sort of electrical device\" when winning on Will Take Charge in Travers.
Glad to hear it.
What exactly was the explanation for the Thunder Gulch \'artifact\' again? A piece of the riding crop?
horses can have bad days.............