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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: Wrongly on March 27, 2013, 07:04:47 AM

Title: Jamie Ness
Post by: Wrongly on March 27, 2013, 07:04:47 AM
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/ness-gets-tco2-overage-at-tampa-its-taking-the-fun-out-of-it/

Just a couple of quotes from Ness: \"I ain't doing nothing. It's taking the fun out of it, it really is. When you win at a high percentage all you get is extra scrutiny."
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: TGJB on March 27, 2013, 09:01:32 AM
The part about TCO2 testing in Florida-- anybody still wonder why we need test results published?
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 27, 2013, 10:22:01 AM
Bernie Madoff had similar complaints
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: miff on March 27, 2013, 10:29:07 AM
How many positives does Ness have, don\'t follow Tampa.Story says this horse ran 5th and had 38 vs the permitted 37.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: Rick B. on March 27, 2013, 11:44:56 AM
Does Ness & connections need the $155 (5th place purse) that bad?

What am I missing here, other than a guy who has been under
scrutiny and suspicion for a long time finally got a trivial
overage?

(As in, BFD: water, still wet; sky, still blue...)
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: Fairmount1 on March 27, 2013, 01:58:53 PM
Does Gulfstream Park have any \"house rules\" also since there are no Florida guidelines in essence?  If so, are we allowed to know about them.  Wow, it is all starting to make sense miff.  You just point for that meet where there are no rules and then you are just within the rules of the game to provide as much therapeutic medication as you want to have three year olds every year that break off and win by 10.  And then when they ship out of town, it\'s not quite the same.....cause that same trainer doesn\'t \"point\" for those races like he does races at the Gulf meet.  

And I feel sorry for Poor Jamie Ness....taking the fun out of the game for him.  Aww, cause as a horseplayer, there is nothing more fun then looking down at a racing form that has a Jamie Ness horse that he claimed three back and has been running 10 lengths faster his last two races at 3-5 once again.  

I know I\'m being ornery but its so obvious meaningful change needs to happen.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: miff on March 27, 2013, 02:13:32 PM
Fair,

Re Ness, the super form of milkshake is now ITTP, an injection. Developed as a PED in Europe or Canada few years ago and then showed up down under and was detected by the Aussies.

Supposedly tested for here at major venues but who knows.

Mike
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: TGJB on March 27, 2013, 02:18:28 PM
Who knows indeed. Had not heard about the injectable-- for a while they were using a powder and putting it in feed, but clearly it\'s easier to control dosage with an injection.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: miff on March 27, 2013, 02:22:55 PM
Rumored to come out of Europe and devepoled for Soccer players as an aid to delay the onset of exhaustion.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: moosepalm on March 27, 2013, 02:39:06 PM
miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rumored to come out of Europe and devepoled for
> Soccer players as an aid to delay the onset of
> exhaustion.


Great.  Does that mean we can now expect horses to fall down and writhe in pain if they get bumped?
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: plasticman on April 04, 2013, 01:17:55 PM
In today\'s 7th at Aqueduct, Ness had a first time claim from RRR and the horse went off 6-5 and ran horrible....took her forever to \'thaw out\' and she made a false late run to miss in a 3 way photo to two slugs (while the Chad Brown and the Asumssem also had no late pop).

Ness, Asmussen and Brown, all major contenders...couldnt run a lick and lost to a Jena Antonucci who looked dreadful on paper and a Mitchell Friedman who looked slow on paper.

Something to take note of when low pct trainers run 1-2 with bad looking horses and the \'supertrainers\' can\'t make a dent.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: sighthound on April 04, 2013, 02:51:45 PM
Test results are only valid for the moment the horse was tested  (Ness testing his own horse would be useless, unless the horse ran a high baseline HCO3 which is possible from feed.

Things that raise TCO3 - poor technique collecting sample, poor storage sample, delayed testing sample, certain feeds, heat ...
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: sighthound on April 04, 2013, 02:54:31 PM
38 is a pretty high total, set deliberately according to statistical analysis, that should be outside of 97% of samples tested, even those affected by external results (hot humid day, etc).  In other words, there is indeed a valid 2-3% sampling chance \"I ain\'t done nothing\" is absolutely true.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: sighthound on April 04, 2013, 02:56:35 PM
Please never, every include Chad Brown in your \"supertrainer\" category. He is beyond question clean.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: plasticman on April 04, 2013, 03:07:39 PM
I didnt mean to imply anyone was cheating by using the supertrainer tag.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: sighthound on April 04, 2013, 03:23:43 PM
Thanks, that\'s usually what I take it to mean.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: TGJB on April 04, 2013, 03:27:05 PM
Sight-- What in the world do you base that on?

Brown worked for Allday, then for Frankel, during a time period where Allday was treating Frankel\'s horses, and later admitted cheating, to a whole roomful of Jockey Club members. He specifically admitted developing the use of EPO in horses, some of which died (they then started using aspirin to thin the blood).

Now, does this necessarily mean Chad Brown is cheating now? No. But you\'re going to have to give me a reason to back up that definitive statement because this is NOT a situation where he starts out with the benefit of the doubt, given the history.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: miff on April 04, 2013, 04:05:19 PM
Forced to now root for Vyjack.Rudy owner just told me State officials now investigating ANOTHER, 3rd,positive for banamine, the level so far over,its off the charts.Rudy and 3 of his top owners offering like $50k to anyone who will come forward believing Rudy is being set up.Rudy now doing days for 2 positives from last year.Rudy uses banamine 30 hours out, rule allows it 24 hours out.

Got Tricky with multiple Class 3\'s, Rudy new target.

Mike
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: TGJB on April 04, 2013, 04:20:13 PM
Agree the stuff they are talking about is not the problem, if the readings are what they say it\'s quite possible he was set up.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: miff on April 04, 2013, 04:28:47 PM
JB,

Rudy\'s name on \"their\" radar.\"They\" spied on his barn, singled him out for super testing,planted a stool pigeon and found nothing.Its no secret that Rudy uses banamine(they checked his horses vet records)Suddenly, he\'s getting multiple overages DESPITE time stamped administration.

Are they fking kidding me?

Mike
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: sighthound on April 04, 2013, 05:49:30 PM
Association isn\'t causation.  

Chad Brown is a trainer known for not wanting quick fixes (like injecting hocks, etc); being cautious and considerate of his horses; calling the vet immediately instead of letting the horse be.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: TGJB on April 04, 2013, 06:35:28 PM
Like Bobby Frankel?
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: sighthound on April 04, 2013, 07:48:42 PM
Ever think that Brown doesn\'t do that because he\'s seen horses treated like that?

Guilty with zero evidence or proof?  Outrageous
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: Eight Belles on April 04, 2013, 07:59:54 PM
TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sight-- What in the world do you base that on?
>
> Brown worked for Allday, then for Frankel, during
> a time period where Allday was treating Frankel\'s
> horses, and later admitted cheating, to a whole
> roomful of Jockey Club members. He specifically
> admitted developing the use of EPO in horses, some
> of which died (they then started using aspirin to
> thin the blood).
>
> Now, does this necessarily mean Chad Brown is
> cheating now? No. But you\'re going to have to give
> me a reason to back up that definitive statement
> because this is NOT a situation where he starts
> out with the benefit of the doubt, given the
> history.

It\'s already been posted that they had a falling out and don\'t speak to each other.  And if he was doing work at the Brown barn, wouldn\'t someone know?  Other trainers, the press, Allday tweeting about it as he does about seeing Pletcher, Drysdale, McLaughlin, etc. horses?  Then there are the owners who\'d see him at the barn who\'d surely question why they never get a bill from the vet at the barn.

Then there\'s what we could surmise Brown could\'ve learned from Allday 5 or 10 years ago that would still be applicable today.  Are there drugs from that time that are still undetectable today?
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: TGJB on April 04, 2013, 08:01:40 PM
As I already said, not necessarily guilty. Just suspect.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: TGJB on April 04, 2013, 08:04:36 PM
Yes. If you had been following this space closely you would know that. EPO given at the right intervals is undetectable without out of competition testing.
Title: Re: Jamie Ness
Post by: sighthound on April 04, 2013, 08:14:42 PM
You need to get out in the barns sometime.