http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012/03/14/arts/AP-US-TV-Luck-Horse-Deaths.html?_r=1&hp
I\'ll miss the show and I won\'t. It was hard to understand all the dialogue-irish accent jockey, stammering agent, spanish accent trainer and grovelly nick nolte. And why focus on the seedier side associated with racing? Why not look at intelligent horseplayers who approach the game as an intellectual challenge?
You can bitch all you want about the influence of \"animal loons\" here, but anyone who doesn\'t believe that that race has already been run (and been decided by open lengths), is kidding themselves.
No TV show, no triple crown winner, nothing, will ever bring this sport back to national prominence, until that question can be answered to the general public\'s satisfaction.
The sad thing for me is that I have non racetrack fans, relatives and friends, male and female who are really into this show. And watching the development of the story lines, I could probably get them to go to the track with me. NOT AQUEDUCT but a day at Belmont, Saratoga, Santa Anita, Del Mar etc. And, on a nice sunny day, with me to explain what was going on and getting them to bet a couple of dollars they would have fun. The fact that they were filming a second season validates that there is an audience for a drama with horse racing as a backdrop. What about all the injuries on \"Dancing with the stars\"???
drbillym Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I\'ll miss the show and I won\'t. It was hard to
> understand all the dialogue-irish accent jockey,
> stammering agent, spanish accent trainer and
> grovelly nick nolte. And why focus on the seedier
> side associated with racing? Why not look at
> intelligent horseplayers who approach the game as
> an intellectual challenge?
Because nobody would watch, except people already into the game.
P-Dub:
I\'m really into the game and wouldn\'t watch a show about \"intelligent horseplayers
approaching the game intellectually.\"
I can barely stand to listen to five minutes of the NYRA talking heads on race
day, not to mention TVG\'s Greg Wolf who after years on the air can not hold his
own in a serious handicapping conversation.
I think the irony here is that if Gary Stevens (who is/was excellent in \"Luck\")
was seriously injured (or worse) during the filming of a racing sequence, there
would be a lot of discussion about how hazardous a profession race riding is, the
show would have gotten extra publicity, but certainly would not have been
cancelled.
Speaking of HBO, Julianne Moore, Woody Harrelson and Ed Harris are all excellent
in the Sarah Palin movie.
I\'ll miss \"Luck\", but most of the non racing fans I know who sampled it were
heading for the hills halfway into the first episode.
Agree with most of the posters opinions about this show (stammering jock agents, mumbling dialog, too much of the low rent side\' of the \'race-trackers\', etc...) BUT...the cancelling of this show because of the horse \'breakdowns\' will deal another significant negative, PR punch to the game in this case IMO unfairly. While the first two injuries occurred while the horses were running the last injury was incurred when the horse flipped in the paddock hit his head and was subsequently euthinized. While this was a freak occurrence it does occasionally happen EVEN IN GRADE I races. I was in the paddock for the Breeders Cup Distaff @ Belmont in 2001 when Exogenous did the EXACT same thing (flipped in the tunnel in the post parade struck her head and was euthinized two days later). Unfortunately these things sometime happen...BUT the mainstream media, PETA, etc..will take this cancellation as proof that \"the game is dangerous\", \"the animals are abused\", etc.. and will negatively spin this story as loudly as they can...Comments??
John
When I first became employed at the race track, one of the first things I recall being told by an outrider was this: \"Kid, shit happens. Get used to it.\"
In that light, I feel cancelling the series is really over reacting.
There was a movie, if I recall where a helicopter crashed and decapitated Vic Morrow, but they completed the movie anyway....................
I wonder if we will get a second season anyway?
richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P-Dub:
>
> I\'m really into the game and wouldn\'t watch a show
> about \"intelligent horseplayers
> approaching the game intellectually.\"
I doubt that I would too.
>
> I can barely stand to listen to five minutes of
> the NYRA talking heads on race
> day, not to mention TVG\'s Greg Wolf who after
> years on the air can not hold his
> own in a serious handicapping conversation.
Greg Wolf is an embarrassment. Don\'t get me started.
>
> I think the irony here is that if Gary Stevens
> (who is/was excellent in \"Luck\")
> was seriously injured (or worse) during the
> filming of a racing sequence, there
> would be a lot of discussion about how hazardous a
> profession race riding is, the
> show would have gotten extra publicity, but
> certainly would not have been
> cancelled.
I think the general lack of respect horse racing receives was a big part of the cancellation. Breakdowns and injuries occur in this sport. To assume that nothing like this could or should happen is disingenuous. The PETA folks or \"loons\" as my friend Richie likes to say, were waiting for something like this to happen. Unfortunate that these people have enough clout to force a cancellation.
>
> Speaking of HBO, Julianne Moore, Woody Harrelson
> and Ed Harris are all excellent
> in the Sarah Palin movie.
Agreed, enjoyed the movie and thought Moore was especially good.
>
> I\'ll miss \"Luck\", but most of the non racing fans
> I know who sampled it were
> heading for the hills halfway into the first
> episode.
I\'ll miss it too. My non-racing fan girlfriend enjoyed the show. I know other non-racing fan that were on both sides of the fence with it. I thought the acting was first rate, anytime Hoffman and/or Farina were on the screen you could tell who the real pros were. I thought their scenes were great.
The problem is that the \"general public\" is so completely ignorant of basic animal husbandry and familiarity, that discredited, useless, awful, anti-animal groups like PETA get publicity and support.
It\'s been two generations since many had a horse in their backyard, or knew instinctively how to train a dog.
Peta is a domestic terrorist (FBI files) anti-animal group with zero \"help animals\" credibility; and the American Humane Society was taken over by ex-PETA loons about 15 years ago, and no longer has \"humane\" cred.
I agree that the vision of horse racing as depicted by Luck being canceled \"due to\" breakdowns (was it really due to low viewership?) leaves a bad taste in the mouth of everyone who loves horses and racing.
In the end I think they cancelled a bad show that suprised me when I found out they made a second season...If that show had a big following there would have been a fight put up by HBO.
Contrary to what Squires said in the Times, when you include viewings after the first showing each week and On Demand, about 4.8 million peiople a week were watching that show, and it was definitely getting better (and easier to follow).
Loons need to get a life and leave the game alone,FOOLS!!
Paulick Report:
The PETA Distortion: How Luck\'s Cancellation Was Far from Ethical
Nothing is going to bring back the HBO series LUCK after the decision by producers last week to stop production on the second season and effectively cancel the series after season one. And nothing is going to bring back the three ex-racehorses who had found second careers as equine actors on LUCK but that suffered unusual, sad deaths. Those deaths – one in 2010, another in 2011, and the most recent one week ago – led HBO to cancel the series, though speculation is rife that declining viewership during season one was the real reason the plug was pulled on the horse racing series written by Thoroughbred owner David Milch and filmed at Santa Anita Park under the direction of Michael Mann.
Despite the finality of what happened, I can't in good conscience allow the radical animal rights group PETA – and the journalists who faithfully report whatever the agenda-driven organization tells them – to have the last word on the circumstances surrounding the deaths of the three horses over the two-year period that LUCK was being filmed.
Known as People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, PETA was anything but ethical in how it spread lies about the equine accidents that plagued LUCK.
PETA spoon-fed stories to sympathetic reporters like Vickery Eckhoff, who wrote a damning article based on lies or wildly off-base assumptions from a PETA press release for Forbes.com ("LUCK Ran Old, Unfit, Drugged Horses, Says Necropsy Report"). Others picked up on the same story, and it wasn't until the news cycle was several days old that PETA's outrageous claims of LUCK using unfit, sore, drugged horses was brought into question by anyone.
By then, however, the lies had been repeated often enough that people believed them.
That's the way PETA operates, to get ahead of stories and promote their agenda through a sympathetic media with lies or assumptions and unnamed "whistleblowers" and so-called experts whose names they won't reveal.
The production of LUCK was supervised by the American Humane Association, whose film and television unit has been overseeing movie and TV sets using animals for more than 70 years. There were two veterinarians involved in examining and caring for the horses, Dr. Heidi Agnic, a racetrack practitioner hired through the AHA and HBO, and an independent veterinarian, Dr. Gary Beck, who has worked for the California Horse Racing Board. The AHA required X-rays of all the horses used in LUCK (there were approximately 45), prohibited the use of any drugs in the horses (including anti-inflammatories and tranquilizers) and conducted random drug testing, and required daily veterinary inspections. They even weighed the horses on a regular basis. Horse racing scenes being filmed were limited to three-eighths of a mile or less. Horses could be used twice a day. Everyone involved in handling the horses was both qualified to do so and licensed by the California Horse Racing Board.
Despite those precautions, as many horse owners and trainers have learned through their own experiences, accidents can and did, unfortunately, happen during the filming of LUCK.
-In May 2010, jockey David Neusch had pulled up a horse, Outlaw Yodeler, that had been in a scene and was jogging him back to the barn. The horse was playfully rooting, or pulling its head up and down, and tripped on its own feet, falling onto its right shoulder. The impact shattered its humerus. Following the accident, Dr. Agnic administered several medications to relieve pain, tranquilize the horse and reduce swelling in the event the injury was treatable. It was not the kind of fracture that can be treated, however, and Outlaw Yodeler was euthanized.
-A year later, during filming of LUCK, a second horse, Marc's Shadow, suffered a catastrophic fracture of its upper leg bone, or radius. The fracture was so severe that euthanasia was conducted immediately.
-Last week, as a horse was being walked in the stable area by what LUCK writer John Perrotta said was an experienced groom, the horse slipped on a dirt pathway, reared, and fell backwards. It landed on its poll, or soft area on the head where many nerve endings gather. It's an injury that often punctures the carotid artery, and requires euthanasia.
Dr. Susan Stover, a veterinarian at the University of California-Davis who has been in charge of the horse racing industry's necropsy program that looks at every fatality at a licensed racetrack in the state, described the two leg fractures as "atypical" among the many she has seen over the years.
"Fractures occur in very consistent locations because they often happen in pre-existing injuries," Stover told the Paulick Report. "They are like occupational injuries. These two particular fractures are not typical. They would be rare fractures in racehorses."
The necropsy reports of the first two horses that died were acquired by PETA through Freedom of Information Act requests and leaked to the press. Among the findings were that the horses had some degree of arthritis, which did not surprise Stover.
"I would concur that it is not uncommon to have some arthritis or some lesions in their legs," she said. "I would imagine that there are racehorses that have very clean joints, but we're probably not going to see them (in a necropsy)."
The necropsy report for Outlaw Yodeler, the horse that died in 2010, stated the presence of four drugs: Phenylbutazone and Banamine (flunixin), which are non-steroidal anti-inflammatories; Sol-U Delta Cortef, a fast-acting corticosteroid used to combat shock; and the sedative/analgesic Torbugesic (butorphanol).
The drugs were administered by Dr. Agnic to treat the stricken horse, and multiple racetrack veterinarians contacted by the Paulick Report confirmed that combination of drugs would be very typical in treating a horse that had just suffered a severe injury.
But PETA seized on the drug finding in the necropsy report to sell its story to a sympathetic media and for a sensationalized letter to the Los Angeles District Attorney, signed by its in-house attorney, Lindsay Waskey, in which it called for a criminal investigation of Dr. Agnic, writer Milch, and trainer Matthew Chew, who trained the horses used in the filming of LUCK.
"The astonishing array of powerful pharmaceutical drugs administered to Outlaw Yodeler before his injury," the letter reads, "suggests that Agnic was well aware that he was suffering from severe pain and inflammation and knew, or should have known, that the medication may cause Outlaw Yodeler to have a difficult time being able to recognize and respond to pain that would normally be a signal to a horse to slow down, pull up, or in some way indicated that he is injured."
This outrageous lie by Waskey is the "smoking gun" that allowed PETA to enlist a sympathetic media, which didn't know to ask whether it's possible those drugs were given to the horse after he was injured. Never mind the facts: this lie helped complete the story.
Waskey, when reached at the PETA office in Washington, D.C., refused to talk to the Paulick Report about the letter, specifically what knowledge PETA had that Outlaw Yodeler was given "powerful pharmaceutical drugs" before he was injured.
"I'll have to have a media person call you," she said. "I can't talk to you about it. That's not the way we do things around here."
Instead, we received a call from PETA vice president Kathy Guillermo, who said PETA "made the assumption" the drug cocktail was given before the horse was hurt rather than after it suffered the freak injury.
"There is a possibility one of the drugs was given afterwards," Guillermo said. "The District Attorney or the Pasadena Humane Society would have to find out when everything was administered. But that's what we were told by the vets we discussed it with. It's fair to say that's what we heard. I believe and was advised that the indication on the necropsy report was that the horses were running on those drugs and I believe that to be the case, and I was told that by six people on the set."
PETA accomplished its mission. It helped end the production of LUCK. It wants to end the use of animals for entertainment.
What becomes of those 45 horses who found second careers is anyone's guess. It's not something Guillermo or anyone at PETA cares about. According to its latest IRS Form 990, PETA is an organization that spends $7.5 million on its own salaries each year and less than $1 million supporting animal welfare organizations.
It will move on to its next subject, employ the same tactics, and find a sympathetic media to help carry out its mission. PETA is very good at what it does. Just not very ethical
Very good. Someone should make sure this info gets to the Times and other major publications.
I thought the show was getting better each week.
I especially liked how Nick Nolte \"turned the lights out\" (as they say in the NHL)
on his much younger rival in last weeks episode. To me Milch\'s/Dennis Franz\'s Andy
Sipowicz was one of the great characters ever on TV, and when
Kevin Dunn muttered \"the handicapped broad is sending me emails telling me what
she\'s wearing\", I almost lost it. Pure Sipowicz.
In the end, if PETA played their cards right, HBO would have ended up losing
subscribers. And speaking of PETA, would love to know where they have been during
the winter while NYRA was running a slaughterhouse in Ozone Park. How big of a slots
fueled donation might NYRA have made to PETA?
All practicing vets, whether employed by the state or otherwise, are culpable here.
Memo to PJ Campo: Bottom claimers run at FG and OP. Why haven\'t they had the same
incomprehensible number of catastrophic breakdowns seen this winter at Aqueduct?
No accounting for what makes good TV. I mean, if Leon and Rosie were vampires or
werewolves, the show would have been wildly popular.
Re the bottom claimers breaking down-- big purses for cheap claimers is a recipe for disaster. If a horse is in for 7.5k and a win is a worth lot more than that, trainers will drop and tap for every race, treating horses like short term commodities. As I\'m sure Sight will attest,lots of tapping (let alone other things) takes its toll.
Favorite line by an actor:
\"Joey\" (Richard Kind) - \"Peter Piper picked a peck of peppers\".
\"Ronny Jenkins\" (Gary Stevens) - pickled peppers, a$$hole.
made me laugh so hard I almost forgave Gary for past indescretions on the race track......
Any show that has Dustin Hoffman facing off with Michael Gambon is going to have some redeeming qualities. Actually, I thought there were quite a few, and I\'m seriously p.o.\'ed that I\'ll never know how some of these story lines get resolved. Also, I had Escalante in the fourth episode of the second season, in the \"Escalante/Marcus: Who Smiles First Future Pool\", so there\'s one more torn up ticket.
It seemed like HBO, Milch and Mann rolled over pretty quickly on this one. I sense a back story. I know it\'s Hollywood and they can\'t afford the publicity of looking like animal killers, but there was a defense that could have been thrown up there. Neither Milch nor Mann strike me as the kind of guys who go gently into the night.
Or couldn\'t they just contract with Spielberg or somebody to develop a simulated race production? If they can get me to believe that Tom Cruise was dangling from that building in Dubai, I can probably buy just about anything.
Milch & Mann in New York Magazine.. Not to be missed:
http://www.vulture.com/2012/03/michael-mann-david-milch-interview-luck-horses-cancellation.html
A stoic Milch, in few words, demolishes PETA: \"I was embarrassed for them...\"
Kasept Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Milch & Mann in New York Magazine.. Not to be
> missed:
> http://www.vulture.com/2012/03/michael-mann-david-
> milch-interview-luck-horses-cancellation.html
>
> A stoic Milch, in few words, demolishes PETA: \"I
> was embarrassed for them...\"
Thanks for the link. I really enjoyed this quote from Milch:
\"This is what's kind of a tragic paradox about what's gone on, [Bernstein] wanted to bring back horse racing, to show it in its purity. The purity and exaltation of the experience of witnessing, and to some extent participating in, the thoroughbred's moment of victory and defeat.\"
I know we\'ve gone back and forth, here, about the portrayal of horse players on this show, but I found the scene of Hoffman spending the night with the horse very moving. The juxtaposition of Hoffman, an enormously rich ex-bookie to Nolte, the grizzled old trainer, hanging on to one last dream, to the track degenerates, all united by their love of the game, and the animals they owned, was strangely uplifting, for me. I felt that Milch was on to something here.
PETA is a domestic terrorist organization. PETA has zero to do with animal welfare. Zero. They don\'t deserve to be involved in the discussion. That they were listened to is appalling. Listening to PETA on animal welfare is like listening to the KKK regarding race relations.
Yes to what TGJB said.
In addition: some barns, some tracks, some trainers, some vets, not all: trainers tell the vets what to do, and the vets unquestioningly do it, if they want an income. (\"Come do the knee on this horse\" and the vet has never seen the horse before, or any rads, or any history, and does the knee). No real exam, no diagnosis, just get the horse sound to run. It\'s not done with complete disregard to the horse, people are not callous, but the practical matter is this is how you make money, and that is the culture you are forced into. What I hate about the race track.
No, I do not do that. Working with health problems, or shopping for horses with me, isn\'t very exciting - you\'ll get what\'s best for the horse, and not flash-pushed-to-the-edge-of-soundness-ego-feeding-speed at sales. But I sleep very, very well at night.
Gentle. And he didn\'t finish Deadwood, either, did he? Hope we get to flail away with JB at the Spa this summer.
\"No, I do not do that. Working with health problems, or shopping for horses with me, isn\'t very exciting - you\'ll get what\'s best for the horse, and not flash-pushed-to-the-edge-of-soundness-ego-feeding-speed at sales\"
Sight,
Kinda puts you in the minority. Don\'t recall a vet ever refusing a request for a tap or whatever, much less even question a request.Up close and personal have seen vets \"advise\" that they could maintain/handle certain problems when vetting one for a prospective buyer. Some very big owners/outfits never leave home without their vets,like an American Express Card.
Mike
If you are familiar with the animals, and the trainer, and have a working relationship, that\'s great. If a certain person tells me, \"I need a knee tapped\", the horse needs a knee tapped. But, on the other hand, I suspect something more is going on, they\'d let me pursue it.
Lots of people in horses are as smart as vets about what\'s going on with the horse. Lots are dumber than rocks. Both train. Both vet. So it goes.
Race horses are intensive athletes managed to the very edge. The best run on the very edge of \"breaking\" - like elite human athletes do. They are pampered and their every ache and swelling attended to. But of course they have injuries, and strains, and sprains, and those are managed, just like human athletes, to keep them in the game.
The bad people don\'t care about the difference between what can be managed, and what can, or should, not.
We have to be careful not to lump those two opposites together. Huge difference between a trainer claiming a lower class horse, giving it steroid to get it\'s appetite back, injecting it\'s sore joints, and running it appropriately, and the previous stable that did none of that, or did so haphazardly without plan.
Could HRTV and/or TVG have adopted/bankrolled \"Luck\" in some form or another?
Forgive me, but I am unclear on term \"tap\". Can you explain?
From an equine site.
There are two main reasons to \"tap\" a horse\'s joint: anesthesia or \"blocking\" for lameness diagnosis, and medicating the joint. To localize a lameness to a specific area or joint, nerve and joint blocks can be performed. A joint block involves injecting the joint with a local anesthetic like lidocaine to for desensitization. If the lameness resolves after injection, it is likely that the joint that was injected is the source of the horse\'s pain. Joint injections can also be used to administer certain drugs to help the horse. Typically, a steroid can be administered into a joint to help combat inflammation that may be occurring there. Hyaluronic acid, a substance to help lubricate the joint, can also be given simultaneously with steroids.