I lost my real interest in horse racing years ago, but I do get sucked in by the big days. The failure of the stewards to disqualify, nay, even post an inquiry, after Goldikova came out borders on criminal. Let me say upfront that the non-disqualification made my main bet of a head to head wager of Goldie over Gio Ponte a winner, So I benefitted financially. I can rationalize with the best of them as to why they let it stand. \"International relations,\" P Val shouldn\'t be allowed to be riding anyway, \"didn\'t effect the final placings,\" etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. The guys that scream about the stewards by and large are just airing sour grapes in the majority of cases. But this was glaring. I would love to just sit down across the table from these stewards, calm, clear eyed, my heart full of compassion for my fellow man, and gently listen to them explain the reasons for their decision. Ultimately, I cannot imagine how I would not walk away with any feeling other than, just like Jeff Mullins, the Churchill stewards think those who bet on horse racing are fools.
I could go on and on, but I\'m mainly just posting this to read what I consider the opinions of some of the most informed horseplayers out there.
I posted last week about a race in NY where the horse did the same thing, slammed another while looking for room to run in the stretch. He stayed.
I\'ve re-read my post and settled down, realizing that I sound like the kind of guy who is so cynical and jaded he also hates sunshine, blowjobs, and the polio vacine.;-) I just wish the sport could do better for itself on a day when neophytes see these guys in their booth looking at the replays, and then do nothing. Fourth race on a Wednesday night at Retama, ok, whatever. I firmly believe it all comes out in the wash, etc, etc. But gambling is not the lifeblood of the NBA or the NFL, and they pretty much get it right when they actually review a call. Horse racing is different. There is no breeders cup without betting revenues. Or wait, maybe there is. Sunk costs are pretty much taken care of already. Who needs all this parimutuel nonsense.
I think one of the problems with this situation was the commentators were so convinced there would be a DQ, that their nonsense got into our heads and that was a huge factor in our disgust that there was no actual DQ.
The cameras showed the judges in the booth and Jerry and the host were saying that a DQ was a \"fait accompli\' and they (the judges) were just \'discussing\' where to place Goldy.
This incorrect information from the television commentators is what is what is helping fuel America\'s disgust of a non DQ.
I was thinking that there would be a DQ, but i wasnt as sure as the Jerry Bailey\'s of the world. One of the things that Bailey failed to mention was that this wasn\'t an inquiry, it was just an objection from an out of town jock. Its not like it was calvin who made this claim, it was a jock from a different jurisdiction.
Why there wasnt an inquiry is anyone\'s guess as there appeared to be enough to warrant a look. Maybe the judges figured that Goldy didnt affect any placings and that she was European and since Churchill had strained relations with several Euro trainers, they didnt want to make it worse by taking down one of their most popular horses.
Insightful plasticman. I\'d like to think I\'m immune from the media telling what to think, but I know I am not. Bailey\'s, but especially Moss\'s, comments definitely influenced me. Boscar is right too. There are steward decisions more frequently than I would like to admit that are just plain wrong.
Churchill had strained relations with several Euro trainers, they didnt want to make it worse by taking down one of their most popular horses.
Bingo!
The law of unintended consequences. CD doesn\'t put dogs up on the turf course to let the euros get a jog in, so that means they can do whatever they want in the race.
This really does explain it pretty well. Thanks MO.
how about having gio ponti in the 3 spot for the tri?
It is more important to the Breeder\'s Cup corporation, the Churchill Downs Corporation, and all the other corporation corporations to maintain relations with the European horseracing corporations than it is to maintain good relations with the idiots, I mean bettors, that bet on horse racing. That is why they chose to not insult the European connections of Goldikova by even posting an inquiry.
How about disqualifying Goldikova as would be proper according to the rules of racing, past precedent, blah blah blah. Then send a letter to every European owner trainer and corporation explaining exactly why they did not allow the Euros to gallop over the course and apologizing, or no, sorry, we never apologize, send a letter empathizing with any challenges that may have caused. Then also explain why it was in the best interests of horse racing overall to have to unfortunately disqualify Goldikova. Then close the communication with discounts, offers, whatever backstroking it takes to make them all feel special and make sure they come back next year.
dodie Wrote:
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> Then also explain why it was in the best
> interests of horse racing overall to have to
> unfortunately disqualify Goldikova.
I\'d love to hear this myself.
> Then close the communication with discounts, offers,
> whatever backstroking it takes to make them all feel
> special and make sure they come back next year.
Yes. 25 cents off of a McRib Value Meal perhaps...which would ever enforce their perceptions of us as the loutish, ugly Americans that we are. (Well, some of us.)
Dodie,
Said Kentucky Horse Racing Commission steward John Veitch, "We felt it didn't affect the outcome. We thought (Courageous Cat) was done."
I\'d imagine veitch owes quite a few people a kiss.I for one like to be kissed
before i\'m f*&^@$.
Flighted iron
What is going on here? There WAS an inquiry, the jock filed an objection.
Anybody who thought Courageous Cat\'s run was stopped by Goldikova needs to watch a thousand more horse races. That horse was done. He didn\'t lose any run. He had no run.
She shouldn\'t have been taken down....the boys spoke too soon
What about the other few horses who got fanned out? CC wasnt the only horse who was bothered.
Re: lets not forget who carries who (300 Views)
Posted by: sighthound (IP Logged)
Date: March 07, 2011 04:24PM
That\'s a great video to watch: look how quiet those jocks are sitting the horses in the final sixteenth. There\'s no flailing with the whips, no pumping with the shoulders and arms. The horses are tired, the horses are fighting it out, and the jocks are trying to just sit there quiet, being as light as they can, not interfering, not throwing off the balance, and letting the horses do all they can.
Great video!
Do you remember this sarcastic utterance defending riders? Well guess what? there isn\'t a soul on this fing planet that knows for sure whats going on with the fing horse during the fing race other than the fing rider.That\'s the fing reason the rider lodged
the objection genius.Watch a thousand more races? I\'m not a rider,but i must object to THAT statement.
Not to mention laws of fing probability.in this horses last 5+ mile grass races he\'s NEVER been done at the top of the lane.go back and read the captions.words and phrases such as grudgingly,gamely,fought back all while in the same fing company.
and Courageous Cat, who was mugged by Goldikova in the Mile – "They about dropped his ass," Mott said
this was from the Daily Racing Form.I suppose P Val doesn\'t know shit and Mott\'s
just a fing liar?
Fing please
Sighthound, I respect your opinion about P Val being done or not. An inquiry however, is not the same as an objection. An inquiry is initiated by the stewards. An objection is initiated by an owner, trainer, or jockey. Officially, probably, an objection becomes an inquiry once the stewards accept it and begin to investigate, I mean \"inquire.\" The point is, who initiates it. And, if it didn\'t affect the finish, then I guess you wait for an objection if you\'re a steward. The point for me is public perception. And I guess I just over reacted.
It\'s racing\'s biggest day . . . oohhh, looks like that horse might have broken a rule by coming out and possibly taking the path of another horse. We\'re the officials, let\'s let everyone know were going to take a look at some replays just to make sure. But I guess the NFL waits for the coach to throw one of those red flags before they look at a replay, so stewards should do the same to. It\'s just a perception.
Your angry insults don\'t help your case. Neither does your failure to recognize what\'s not sarcasm, genius.
Trainers and jocks file objections all the time. A connection to reality often has little to do with it. This one didn\'t hold up. There\'s a reason for it. Watch the damn race. The horse was done.
You disagree? Yeah, we get that.
But think about this: if PVal had any horse at all left, he would have persisted and followed the mare. Not wrapped up and quit out of the money.
The horse was backing up, just not fast enough to get the hell out of Goldikova\'s way.
You disagree? Yeah, we get that.
I thought about.i still disagree,however i will agree to disagree.
Yeah. Right. Question. If it had been just a 2 horse race and she made that move into him would you still think she should stay up?
Ha! She practically knocks him over and you say \"look, he\'s done\" because he doesn\'t get back up and run after her. Geez.
It does open itself up to the kind of subjective jockey decision making where he/she says,\"Oh, it looks like you\'re done, so you don\'t mind if I bump you a few wide.\" In a big field, I\'m not sure how comfortable I am with something like this being a no harm/no foul kind of call, as there are other concerns beyond a horse\'s potential placing, though perhaps that\'s the only basis upon which the stewards can rule.
I agree to disagree with Flighted Iron. Sincere but friendly disagreement, FI.
JR - if the horse had any run left, she wouldn\'t have been able to push him out. He was leg-weary. Watch the race, and look at the chiclets - he was already dropping back. The jock on Goldi saw it, and took his path.
It wasn\'t a 2-horse race. It was this race, this time, these horses, this stretch run, that moment. There was a tiring horse, a half-length of opening, the jock on the accelerating horse with finish took it.
That\'s how I saw it, especially after watching the replay. Your mileage may vary.
Any other race on any other day with a bunch of no names and she comes down.
Since we are talking about bad calls in big races, why wasn\'t Sunday Silence dq\'d in the Derby? He nearly put Northern Wolf over the rail. I asked Dr Manuel Gilman this very question back then and he replied \"It\'s Churchill, it\'s the Derby, no body gets dq\'d in the Derby.