Just wondering what some of our \"west coast regulars\" think of Trevor Denman?
The guy has a great voice and all, but it seems he continues to have major mistakes when calling races. He of course had the Breeder\'s Cup debacle a few years back where he screwed up several races, but even though I don\'t watch a ton of California races, he just seems to be getting worse.
In today\'s last at Delmar, a horse seemed to break down (#12?), the jockey was thrown, he collided into two other horses, with one other jockey possibly being thrown, and Denman missed the entire incident in his call. I don\'t know how that is even possible.
Vic Stauffer may not have the elegant pipes of Denman, but his calls are \"on target\" from a substance perspective, if you ask me, especially relative to Denman.
Sorry for the \"non-handicapping\" post, but with Denman starting to remind me of Mike Battaglia, I needed an outlet for the comment......
jimbo66 Wrote:
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> Just wondering what some of our \"west coast
> regulars\" think of Trevor Denman?
>
> The guy has a great voice and all, but it seems he
> continues to have major mistakes when calling
> races. He of course had the Breeder\'s Cup
> debacle a few years back where he screwed up
> several races, but even though I don\'t watch a ton
> of California races, he just seems to be getting
> worse.
>
> In today\'s last at Delmar, a horse seemed to break
> down (#12?), the jockey was thrown, he collided
> into two other horses, with one other jockey
> possibly being thrown, and Denman missed the
> entire incident in his call. I don\'t know how
> that is even possible.
>
> Vic Stauffer may not have the elegant pipes of
> Denman, but his calls are \"on target\" from a
> substance perspective, if you ask me, especially
> relative to Denman.
>
> Sorry for the \"non-handicapping\" post, but with
> Denman starting to remind me of Mike Battaglia, I
> needed an outlet for the comment......
Jimbo,
If you are getting back at me for referring to you as JB\'s boy, you couldn\'t have done a better job than to compare Denman to Battaglia. You say that he has \"a great voice\", which immediately disqualifies Trevor from being compared to Battaglia. Hands down, Battaglia is the worst track announcer alive.......and perhaps the worst of all time.
Not a fan of Mr. Battaglia.
Denman has certainly lost a step. IMO, Denman along with Durkin are 2 of the best announcers of all time. They have been so good for so long, that when they slip it is noticeable. Yes, Denman has had some issues with some BC races, that cannot be disputed. However, his day to day calls are still very good.
He\'s like the guy who hits .330 year after year. Then he hits around .310, finally dropping down to .290. Not as great as he was in his prime, but hitting .290 is still pretty good. You\'re just used to him hitting .330 year after year.
I think that, generally speaking, mistakes are noticed more than good calls. I still enjoy his race calls, they are usually very accurate, contain a nice mix of excitement and he still can see which horses are making a move into contention.
As for the last race today, the only thing I can think of would be this: He calls the entire field from first to last. After calling the last horse, he swings his binoculars back to the front of the pack, and perhaps missed the #12 (who was around 5/6th) as the filly broke down and backed up. I\'m not excusing this, as he certainly should have seen it and put it in his race call. I\'m just speculating as to why he may have missed it. It was indeed inexcusable.
I\'ve posted several times that I am a fan of Stauffer. I think we had a bit of fun on the forum last year when he practically lost his voice as Zenyatta ran down Switch. He mixes enthusiasm, accuracy, and anticipation into his race calls and I enjoy his work immensely.
Being a Bay Area guy, my race track trips are usually Santa Anita and Del Mar. I\'ve never had the chance to visit Saratoga, as many of you get to do several times a meet. One day I\'ll make it out there. Best of luck to you and everyone else making it out to The Spa this summer. Sounds like a great time.
Denman is the public relations voice for SoCal racing. Period. He missed a spill? Probably gave it a lot of thought before he decided it would be bad PR. Cheering for Zenyatta during a race, not just calling her dramatic finishes, put him into the PR category, IMO.
Generally speaking, I dislike announcers that editorialize, and I also prefer quieter, more relaxed sorts. There is a guy in Ireland who calls most of the major Irish races who I really prefer above anyone else--his name escapes me at the moment. I like calm and clear and accurate. Trevor\'s an institution at this point, so he\'s not going anywhere until he\'s ready to retire. He\'s earned that but I agree with your post as far as his accuracy. Vic Stauffer is sometimes amusing I will admit. Tom Durkin is in the same boat as Trevor IMO--he\'s way beyond his prime, but he\'s a fixture as they say. The dude I really can\'t stand is the Churchill race caller, every race is like an orgasm to that guy as he builds up to the dramatic finish, even if there is zero drama in the race. He\'s completely annoying. Most of the time race callers who call my numbers please me the most.
alm Wrote:
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> Denman is the public relations voice for SoCal
> racing. Period. He missed a spill? Probably
> gave it a lot of thought before he decided it
> would be bad PR.
\'WAY out of line. He has a duty to his audience,
whether on-track or off.
Topcat Wrote:
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> alm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Denman is the public relations voice for SoCal
> > racing. Period. He missed a spill? Probably
> > gave it a lot of thought before he decided it
> > would be bad PR.
>
> \'WAY out of line. He has a duty to his
> audience,
> whether on-track or off.
Nonsense. He has a duty to his EMPLOYER. Do you pay his salary? (No, not directly.)
As part of the \"SoCal Team\", Denman is a shameless homer who knows not to sh*t where he eats.
Shouldn\'t be that hard to understand...or accept.
I think that Churchill guy is named Mark Johnson or Mark Johnston, and I must say I thoroughly enjoy his calls. In addition to enjoying his calls, I do think he has got the substance down. I could see how people might not like his theatrics, but for me, the overwrought aspects do not overshadow the overall quality of his racecalls if one listens to what he is saying.
However, I loved Costy Caras as a race announcer -- to me, hearing his voice over the PA system was always a sure sign I was in paradise (i.e. a racetrack back in the days before living room downs and even ITW)
Alm and Rick B,
The race caller HAS to mention a fall as big as the one yesterday\'s 9th race had. 3 different horses were knocked out of the race, at least one jockey was thrown and potentially hurt.
It was very shitty race call. Forget about PR for Southern Cal or who his allegiance is to. Should local baseball announcers not mention home runs by the opposing team? Just skip them in their game call.
Whenever a good race caller sees an incident the first thing he does is find a way to mention whether or not the jockey gets up after the fall.
To suggest that Denman saw the fall and decided to ignore it because of some obligation to Southern Cal racing is crazy.
BTW, check the internet. There are calls for Denman\'s resignation in quite a few spots. (I think that is overkill, but he clearly that was a big screwup)
Rick B. Wrote:
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> Topcat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > alm Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Denman is the public relations voice for
> SoCal
> > > racing. Period. He missed a spill?
> Probably
> > > gave it a lot of thought before he decided it
> > > would be bad PR.
> >
> > \'WAY out of line. He has a duty to his
> > audience,
> > whether on-track or off.
>
> Nonsense. He has a duty to his EMPLOYER. Do you
> pay his salary? (No, not directly.)
>
> As part of the \"SoCal Team\", Denman is a shameless
> homer who knows not to sh*t where he eats.
>
> Shouldn\'t be that hard to understand...or accept.
Please. A leader by daylight breaks both forelegs at the
eighth pole . . . then, what does he say?
Topcat Wrote:
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> Please. A leader by daylight breaks both
> forelegs at the
> eighth pole . . . then, what does he say?
That wasn\'t the case here.
Even if it was, some of you guys here believe that the racecaller has some sort of \"obligation\" to call everything that is happening during the race. While some racecallers *do* manage to fit everything in, it simply doesn\'t follow that it would become some de facto standard because of that.
Again, Denman is an employee of the RACETRACK -- he may very well have been told to give anywhere from \"minimal\" to \"no mention\" of accidents, etc., when possible. The racecall itself is copyrighted and owned by the presenting racetrack. Think about that.
it\'s not as if it\'s going to be the last breakdown at Del Mar this summer.
Sad, but virtually-guaranteed.
The purpose of having a race call is to get information to the public. If a horse breaks down and is out of the race, or others are impeded, that\'s certainly information, especially to those who bet those horses.
This conversation gets really interesting if you start considering Betfair allows bets during the running...
Dana666 Wrote:
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> The dude I really can\'t stand
> is the Churchill race caller, every race is like
> an orgasm to that guy as he builds up to the
> dramatic finish, even if there is zero drama in
> the race. He\'s completely annoying.
LOL, couldn\'t agree more Dana. Don\'t understand why people love this guy so much.
The way he called the finish of the race, no way he saw the spill. Heard hundreds of Denman race calls, in the past he has mentioned spills during his call. He also tones it down at the finish, as Durkin always does, when an accident has occurred.
I\'m not excusing the oversight, incredible that he missed an accident like that one. I just don\'t think he saw it, for whatever reason.
I agree here completely. There is no way Denman saw the spill. He would have muted his call if he had. I\'m not defending him as I think he\'s way past his freshness date but in no way did he see the spill and deliberately decide to ignore it.
TGJB Wrote:
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> The purpose of having a race call is to get
> information to the public. If a horse breaks down
> and is out of the race, or others are impeded,
> that\'s certainly information, especially to those
> who bet those horses.
That\'s logical...but not really stated anywhere.
The race call is whatever the race caller makes it. Ask 10 different racegoers what a \"good\" race call should contain, and you\'d likely get 4 or 5 different answers.
How did this vital information get to the bettors back in the day when Keeneland didn\'t have a race caller?
My point: the importance of \"this kind\" of race call, or \"that kind\"...totally overblown. Give me a good set of camera shots (or binoculars, if I am at the track), and you can just mute the blowhard du jour.
jimbo66 Wrote:
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> It was very shitty race call. Forget about PR for
> Southern Cal or who his allegiance is to. Should
> local baseball announcers not mention home runs by
> the opposing team? Just skip them in their game
> call.
Baseball announcers can\'t ignore if it\'s happening front and center.
Neither can Denman: remember his stretch call of the 2010 BC Classic? He calls \"Zenyatta! Zenyatta! Zenyatta!\", like, I dunno, was it 50 times? 100?
Then, with utter and total disdain: \"...oh, Blame wins it a head...\". He would have LOVED to not have to make that call.
Battaglia is the worst. Drawling away does not pertain to horse racing. Is it a word?? I can\'t stand Stauffer telling me I better keep an eye on....blah blah blah. An announcer should be reportorial. Not a smart ass. I think Durkin is still great. Catches most horses making moves which interests most of the crowd. Trevor has used his same cliches too many times. Getting to be unlistenable like the Yankees radio voice John Sterling. It is high, it is deep, it is caught. Takes away one of life\'s pleasures. Vin Scully still sounds fresh.
I think Larry Colmus of monmouth is the best. Watch and listen to his signature call:
http://youtu.be/BVMY-VX7NyA
He is bland and lucked into that Wife-Wife call and actually said nothing clever. Think of the possibilities.
Outside of Battaglia (and I\'d like to think the Tampa Bay guy, too) there\'s likely to be little consensus about race callers at either end of the continuum. But, I can\'t buy this cover-up conspiracy theory. Is this some kind of tree fell in the forest and nobody heard it phenomenon? People know what they saw, regardless of the race caller\'s omission. Is the track administration so obtuse that they think peoples\' reaction to a tragic event can be modulated by the race caller\'s avoidance of it? So, now in addition to the bad P.R. which is inescapable, they can look stupid, too.
It is absurd to think Trevor Denman, in the middle of a race, processed what he saw and in an instant decided to withhold the information from the pubic to enhance his standing among the Southern California Suits. I would think he has been calling races long enough to not have to kiss anyone\'s ass. Perhaps he just missed the event or could not fit it into the flow of his monolog.
Ray Walston in the Sting is \"my favorite\" racecaller.not to mention a great film.
Edgorman Wrote:
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> It is absurd to think Trevor Denman, in the middle
> of a race, processed what he saw and in an instant
> decided to withhold the information from the pubic
> to enhance his standing among the Southern
> California Suits. I would think he has been
> calling races long enough to not have to kiss
> anyone\'s ass. Perhaps he just missed the event or
> could not fit it into the flow of his monolog.
I wasn\'t serious when I said that...in fact I could care less what Denman ever has in mind...he\'s turned into a lousy homer.
But don\'t be so sure what a guy can or can\'t do during the running of a race. In terms of reflection under pressure no one ever made a greater call than Tom Durkin in the 1994 Travers when Concern made his move on Holy Bull. In a blink he says about Holy Bull \"he\'s in front by 5 as they come to the quarter pole, but there is cause for concern.\" You\'re not going to beat that.
Well Durkin has gone haywire now...Denman\'s tossed his professionalism out the window for his heartthob Zenyatta...so where\'s Fred Capposella when we need him?
alm Wrote:
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> Edgorman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is absurd to think Trevor Denman, in the
> middle
> > of a race, processed what he saw and in an
> instant
> > decided to withhold the information from the
> pubic
> > to enhance his standing among the Southern
> > California Suits. I would think he has been
> > calling races long enough to not have to kiss
> > anyone\'s ass. Perhaps he just missed the event
> or
> > could not fit it into the flow of his monolog.
>
>
> I wasn\'t serious when I said that...in fact I
> could care less what Denman ever has in
> mind...he\'s turned into a lousy homer.
>
> But don\'t be so sure what a guy can or can\'t do
> during the running of a race. In terms of
> reflection under pressure no one ever made a
> greater call than Tom Durkin in the 1994 Travers
> when Concern made his move on Holy Bull. In a
> blink he says about Holy Bull \"he\'s in front by 5
> as they come to the quarter pole, but there is
> cause for concern.\" You\'re not going to beat
> that.
>
> Well Durkin has gone haywire now...Denman\'s tossed
> his professionalism out the window for his
> heartthob Zenyatta...so where\'s Fred Capposella
> when we need him?
Denman\'s call reflected what the vast majority of fans felt when Zenyatta lost by a nose. What, you thing people tuned in for Blame?? So because of this 1 race, lets just call him a lousy homer.
Durkin made a cute call using Concern\'s name, so that is now the benchmark for great calls. Reflection under pressure?? Was someone pointing a gun at his head up in the booth?? What made this call so \"pressurized\'??
You love Durkin, hate Denman. We get it.
P-Dub:
I wish they would both retire and make room for some young blood. I think the
time is right for an accurate female racecaller with a sultry voice...
richiebee Wrote:
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> P-Dub:
>
> I wish they would both retire and make room for
> some young blood. I think the
> time is right for an accurate female racecaller
> with a sultry voice...
Love it Richie!!!
Friend
You hardly reflected on what I said. First of all, I think they are both washed up...Durkin and Denman...both!
Second, I mentioned Durkin\'s comment as a reflection on what a guy can think up on the spot during the running of a race, not to reflect on the greatest call of all time.
Third, no, most of us didn\'t tune in the Breeders Cup to watch Blame win...except for those of us who bet him to win. Now isn\'t that a snotty remark.
Moreover, Denman\'s rooting for her didn\'t begin in the Breeders Cup.
Finally, calm down...your blood pressure is showing.
alm Wrote:
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> Friend
>
> You hardly reflected on what I said. First of
> all, I think they are both washed up...Durkin and
> Denman...both!
Agreed, but they are still better than many.
> Second, I mentioned Durkin\'s comment as a
> reflection on what a guy can think up on the spot
> during the running of a race, not to reflect on
> the greatest call of all time.
You said...\"You\'re not going to beat that\". It was a catchy phrase, but sheesh, was it really all that??
>
> Third, no, most of us didn\'t tune in the Breeders
> Cup to watch Blame win...except for those of us
> who bet him to win. Now isn\'t that a snotty
> remark.
If you bet him, and cashed a ticket, does it really matter how the race was called? Many who tuned in did so to watch Zenyatta.
>
> Moreover, Denman\'s rooting for her didn\'t begin in
> the Breeders Cup.
Can you cite some specific examples of how he\'s done this?? Are you telling me that Durkin, Cassidy, et al have never \"rooted\" for a horse before??
\"Tiznow wins it for America!!!!!!\"
\"Its New York\'s Eaasssyyy Goooeeerrr in front\".
Nothing provincial at all with those calls. You\'re correct sir, Denman is the only race caller to ever emphasize 1 horse over another.
>
> Finally, calm down...your blood pressure is
> showing.
Sir, blood pressure is fine, just exchanging opinions.
I lived in SoCal for 10 years and listened to Denman all that time...hated his calls then, even without Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Zenyatta...I think I watched at least 4 of her races over the last 2 years of her career and he rooted for her during the races in every one of them...Durkin calling the last part of an Easy Goer victory, or a Tizway victory the way I think you\'re citing him is not rooting them around the track, around the pack and down the stretch. Moreover, if Durkin commits a similar excess to Denman, what\'s the difference? He\'s also too cute for words. Sorry.
And if betting a winner like Blame is a reason not to care how a race is called, then why is there such great interest in this subject through 30 posts or so? It\'s got nothing to do with it.
And you conclude that Denman and Durkin are better than many...so? This conversation hasn\'t been about being better than a bunch of unnamed people doing the job...it has been about the self-indulgent and the sometimes spectacularly inaccurate racecalling they are doing today.
This topic\'s kind of going nowhere isn\'t it?
I agree with you. I do not know how he missed it. Not only that, his cliches are getting very old.
Yeah! Awesome idea Richie!! Maybe with a nice Russian accent!!
While we are asking for such things, how about a great tasting beer that is also less filling?
Signed,
Marie of Romania
I think that Denman is getting called out more for this than someone else might. You guys have to remember that many fans hate Denman and want him to retire or just go away so when he makes any kind of mistake, even if its not something that\'s a big deal, people get irate over this.
When you replace Durkin as the voice of the BC and you make major mistakes, people will call you out everytime they get a chance.
If you follow So Cal racing and know about Denman, you know this is completely possible for him to just botch something like this. Making glaring mistakes is in his DNA at this point in time.
There are plenty of racing fans who won\'t miss this guy when he retires.
Did anyone catch Durkin\'s call of the 7th at Saratoga today? It was so pathetic it made me want to weep for him. After calling Turbo Compressor on the lead the entire way in a mile and an eighth race he forgot the horse\'s name at the head of the lane...you think missing Mine That Bird in the Derby was bad? This made me embarrassed for him.
I was embarassed for him today when he spent about 1/4 of the race slobbering over Ice Box having the lead. He\'s making an ass out of himself with some of these calls. I\'m sick of the \"Ohhhhhh They went in a blistering 21 and 2\". Shut up jeez.
Let me guess you rather hear Trevor say \"they got to sprout wings....\" Really?