Ask the Experts

General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: albany on May 08, 2011, 05:12:55 PM

Title: Barry Irwin
Post by: albany on May 08, 2011, 05:12:55 PM
There is no question that Barry Irwin has done a great job for his clients and has many meaningful insights regarding the racing game. I was, however, somewhat troubled by his reference to lying trainers on national television. The audience included millions of casual racing fans and those who have very little, if any, knowledge of the sport. For many, the Derby broadcast could serve to ignite a lifetime of  interest in racing. Why discourage these potential fans by bluntly stating that many of racing\'s stars, its trainers, are dishonest?

I fully believe that Mr. Irwin, who is a relatively straight-shooter for a salesman, was telling the truth about his experiences with trainers. I just do not understand what was gained by his statements.

Albany
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: plasticman on May 08, 2011, 05:56:21 PM
Anyone who is destined to become a fan of racing isnt going to turn around and run the other way because they hear someone make a crack about a lying trainer. How about this analogy.
There are plenty of people in the country who own some sort of stocks on the US stock exchange, do you think that if someone on CNBC said that the CEO of a fortune 500 company was a liar, that would prompt a person who was a newbie to stocks to say, \"i was planning on investing in the stock market, but now i wont\'?
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: albany on May 08, 2011, 06:08:09 PM
I hope your right, but your analogy doesn\'t work.

Barry Irwin is not just a commentator on television. As the head of the syndicate that owns the Derby winner his position is analogous to a CEO. So, it is a CEO that says his industry is rife with dishonesty. As true as that may be, it\'s just plain bad PR.

I suspect that Mr. Irwin wishes that he held his fire.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: Bigredgoer on May 08, 2011, 06:19:35 PM
I thought it was  honest and quite refreshing to hear someone speak the truth and not give us the usual sugarcoated BS...
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: BitPlayer on May 08, 2011, 06:20:28 PM
I\'m guessing that was Mr. Irwin\'s standard response to the question he was asked, and that I\'m sure he\'s been asked several times in other contexts since he moved the syndicate\'s horses to the Motion barn. In the excitement of the moment, he repeated it without a lot of time for
a more measured response.  I\'d say he deserves a pass.

I\'m also not sure it was the wrong thing to say.  A little sunlight might be a good disinfectant for an industry rife with deceit in so many of its aspects. How many new owners have been driven out of the game by dishonest trainers?
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: joekay on May 08, 2011, 06:22:44 PM
I\'d be interested to know who\'s on that list of \"lying trainers\".  Anybody know who they are?
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: plasticman on May 08, 2011, 06:29:15 PM
I hope i\'m right too.

Barry isnt a \'spokesman\' for the game, he\'s just a guy who had a few dollars and decided to get an owners license. Anyone can become an owner, it takes zero skill. All it takes is a few bucks and the ability to fill out some paperwork and get a license.

If you took a poll of new fans and asked them this question, \"if you found out that not every participant in horse racing was 100% honest 100% of the time, would you still want to be a part of this sport?\" do you think many of them would say, \"oh my god do you mean that not everyone is 100% honest all the time? Gee, i dont know if i want to be involved then, thanks for telling me\"
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: miff on May 09, 2011, 06:14:23 AM
x
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: TGJB on May 09, 2011, 08:51:05 AM
Sunlight is the best disinfectant. The dishonesty won\'t go away as long as we sweep it uner the rug, regarding trainers or any of the other BS that goes on in this business.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: colt on May 09, 2011, 10:09:47 AM
Barry Irwin will be on WFAN (660AM in NY - http://player.radio.com/player/RadioPlayer.php?version=1.1.9780&station=62) around 1:20PM today.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: Caradoc on May 09, 2011, 10:20:58 AM
Now that Barry Irwin has implied that Todd Pletcher has lied to him, perhaps Barry would be willing to re-consider his numerous posts here defending Todd?  Or was he referring to all of the trainers he employed except Todd?
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: Deadrockstar on May 09, 2011, 10:47:47 AM
He rocks.

He said Pletcher didn\'t lie to him, nor Wayne Catalano.

He also says trainers are the only one who want the juice to stay in racing.

Also said Churchill sold them a bunch of crappy seats that he had to take back.

Said trainers tend not to give bad news about horses infirmities like they should.

Says AK vans to Fair Hill tomorrow. Vans to Pimlico the night before the race. Says horse will handle the 2 week gap just fine.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: Caradoc on May 09, 2011, 11:04:10 AM
Neil Drysdale, Jimmy Toner, John Sadler and the many other ex-TV trainers not excepted must be pleased by the Pletcher/Catalano comment.  Wonder if any of them are on the line to their lawyers today?

I kept checking the Team Valor website and its Facebook page yesterday, expecting the back-pedaling to start (or, in the spirit of this thread, the sunlight to disappear).  48 hours instead of 24 . . . must have been some celebrating going on.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: TGJB on May 09, 2011, 11:08:29 AM
He\'s right about most of that.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: Halo Fire on May 09, 2011, 11:13:16 AM
TGJB.
No disrespect but please disclose if you recommend transactions to Team Valor.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: magicnight on May 09, 2011, 11:24:58 AM
Everything except handling the 2-week gap well?
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: Deadrockstar on May 09, 2011, 11:38:13 AM
He also exempted Drysdale.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: Niall on May 09, 2011, 11:48:00 AM
I doubt people in the racing and horse trading business are going to take offense at being called \"less than truthful\" ...
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: TGJB on May 09, 2011, 11:51:12 AM
No. As far as I know Barry does his own work. He\'s doing something different because he\'s in a different position-- he has to get clients who do not use what we do to buy into individual horses, therefore they have to look good on standard form. I\'m looking for things that look better on what we do than standard form. This mostly leads Barry to look outside the U.S.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: Boscar Obarra on May 09, 2011, 01:07:25 PM
The good news is, the average trainer is 1000% more honest than the average Chinese stock listed on the exchanges.

 On second thought , maybe that\'s not saying much.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: miff on May 09, 2011, 01:24:00 PM
And equally honest as some Partnership Managers who refuse to disclose the acquistion cost of horses they sell shares in. Certain partnership Managers mark up horses more than 100% to unsuspecting, or newbie sucker owners, pocketing the difference.


Mike
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: TGJB on May 09, 2011, 01:37:45 PM
Correct about partnerships in general. For the record, the Graph partnerships mark up nothing. We get paid strictly out of revenue the horses produce, either through purses or resale.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: miff on May 09, 2011, 01:49:08 PM
Your model is rare!!
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: TGJB on May 09, 2011, 01:54:21 PM
Unique.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: Caradoc on May 09, 2011, 02:15:41 PM
Are you sure about Drysdale? No mention of him in this article.  Was it on the Fan that he mentioned Drysdale?

Kiaran may be on the phone to his lawyer.

http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-derby-trainers-respond-irwins-claim
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: ajkreider on May 21, 2011, 02:23:00 PM
Given a similar venue a few minutes ago, he pretty much agreed with your sentiments.

And then, he said he supports ant-drug legislation, and FBI involvement in that regard.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: sighthound on May 21, 2011, 03:51:42 PM
Frankly, I am unfortunately confident that a good portion of the \"general public\" already thinks horse racing is evil and mean, we beat them with whips, we shove them in the gates when they don\'t want to run, we fill them full of steroids.

Believe me - Irwin talking about honesty is only good for the sport.
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: MO on May 21, 2011, 04:42:01 PM
Barry\'s performance today was music to my ears. Well done Barry!
Title: Re: Barry Irwin
Post by: Boscar Obarra on May 23, 2011, 01:18:13 PM
http://www.equidaily.com/bestbet/news/2011/0523.html


Barry Irwin: I\'m all for it. I can\'t wait. One thing I\'d like to see happen in this sport is I\'d like to see the FBI get involved. There are a certain amount of guys that are always going to want to cheat. There\'s tons of guys out there that will sell drugs to these people but there\'s only a few guys that can use it and it\'s the same guys year-in and year-out. I\'m not talking about the drugs people know everyday - bute, lasix, all that stuff - I\'m talking designer drugs. Drugs like the BALCO guys had. We need to get the FBI to investigate that kind of stuff. Pass this legislation that\'s three strikes and you\'re out. And then root these guys out of the sport.


-------------------------------------
Interesting part \"but there\'s only a few guys that can use it and it\'s the same guys year-in and year-out.\"

 Why? Is it hard to use?