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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: derby1592 on June 01, 2003, 08:14:24 PM

Title: It was a crying "sham"e
Post by: derby1592 on June 01, 2003, 08:14:24 PM
I just watched an ESPN special on the Triple Crown. The highlight of the show was of course the Triple Crown run by Secretariat. I have seen these three races many times before but I still get a chill when Secretariat inhales the field on the Preakness backside and when he wins the Belmont by a country mile.

But what really struck me this time was how really good and really unlucky Sham was. He ran an incredible Derby clearing the rest of the field by many lengths but had no chance of holding off the big red machine in the fastest final quarter in Derby history. (Note that Sham\'s Derby time was the second fastest in history). Sham also ran a great race in the Preakness running his eyeballs out under a whipping and slashing Pincay as he chased Secretariat home through the stretch and once again finished far in front of the rest of the field. He did finally crack in the Belmont but how was Pincay to know that his plan to try and get the jump on Secretariat and wire the Belmont field would be foiled by Secretariat who would be uncharacteristically at his throat latch from the start pressing him into ridiculous fractions of 1:09 and change for a 1, 1/2 mile race. Only one horse could possibly have withstood those fractions so it is not a surprise that Sham eventually wilted under the pressure.

To put it another way, Sham probably would have won the Triple Crown if he had come along in any other year. Some may say Alydar was unlucky not to win a Triple Crown race but I think Sham may have been the unluckiest TC competitor of all time.

I am definitely looking forward to this year\'s Belmont. I just wish we did not have to wait another week.

Cheers.

Chris
Title: Re: It was a crying "sham"e
Post by: Bystander on June 02, 2003, 01:03:50 PM
Agree with the whole post - it is just sad that you had to say that Sham\'s time \"was\" second best in history. I remember being pissed off with Monarchos\'s derby time because it \"unseated\" Sham as being the second fastest derby of all time.  I am curious what the fastest Ragozin/Brown Derby numbers of all time have been.  I am also curious what the fastest losing number has been. It is conceivable that the fast derby of all time was actually a losing effort.
Title: Re: It was a crying "sham"e
Post by: dpatent on June 02, 2003, 01:36:10 PM
The difference between Sham and Alydar was that Alydar came back after his three setbacks and won a lot of big races and beat Affirmed.  Sham never won another race again.  

Please do not mention those horses in the same sentence with a qualifier such as \'Shame was no\' or \'clearly not as good as\' etc.
Title: Head, Heart and Hooves
Post by: Chuckles_the_Clown2 on June 02, 2003, 04:12:55 PM
I really don\'t think Alydar beat Affirmed as a three year old. He lost to Affirmed in the Travers and was awarded first on disqualification. He never would have passed Affirmed that day either.

I\'m really not sure Sham ran much after the Belmont. They pulled his heart when he died and it was massive. The biggest or second biggest thoroughbred heart to that point. They pulled Secretariats when he died and it was bigger.

Anyone knowing what the title of this post refers to please respond.

CtC
Title: Re: It was a crying "sham"e
Post by: Mall on June 02, 2003, 04:25:50 PM
Odd though it may seem, one of the things I remember most about the race was the raucous celebration of the Campo camp because their horse(Twice A Prince I\'m pretty sure) ran 2nd, resulting in what I want to say was an approx $32 exacta, a princely sum for me & my fellow Army draftees, all there to parlay our scores in the Preakness.  I also remember that Forego ran on the undercard, & that getting reasonably good seats the day of the race wasn\'t anywhere near as difficult as it is likely to be this Sat.

You had to like the suggestion in the  article by the Courier\'s beat writer today. He\'s sending tongue ties to Frankel & Bailey to see if that will shut them up until Sat. Speaking of writers, interesting to learn after the fact that the Herald \"writer\" who broke the Santos story used to work for the Blood-Horse, but was fired for sloppy journalism.

Also interesting to learn from the NY Times today that Mr Knowlton owns 20% & the four other high school pals of the now famous stable only 4% each of Funny Cide. The remaining 60% is owned by, per the article, four as yet unidentified investors.
Title: Re: Head, Heart and Hooves
Post by: bdhsheets on June 02, 2003, 08:20:51 PM
Traditionally horses are buried with only their Head, Heart and Hooves. Not too often that they\'re buried intact.

Eclipse\'s heart weighed in at 14 pounds and suppossedly passed the large heart gene through his daughters. Sham\'s tipped the scales at 18 pounds, while Secretariat was estimated to be 22. A normal thoroughbred heart is about 8.5 pounds.



Post Edited (06-02-03 23:28)
Title: Re: Head, Heart and Hooves
Post by: Chuckles_the_Clown2 on June 03, 2003, 04:42:26 AM
Yes bdhsheets, when I first learned of that I was somewhat appalled. Now, I find it romantic. However the romance is tempered by the lingering suspicion that Alpo could be relabeled \"Man O\' War\" or \"Buckpasser\".

CtC
Title: Sham/Alydar fact check
Post by: Phalaris on June 03, 2003, 12:26:13 PM
Because Sham finished in front of Secretariat in the Wood and within two and a half lengths in the Derby and Preakness, there seems to be a sizable population that wants to promote Sham to demigod status. The rest of his career doesn\'t really support it.

Sham: Took several attempts to break his maiden. Won one non-restricted stakes race in his life. Never ran again after the Belmont.

Alydar: After debuting in a stakes race (won by Affirmed) in which he finished fifth, went through the remainder of his 2YO and 3YO campaigns (19 more races) finishing behind a horse other than Affirmed only one time. He was the Derby favorite on the basis of winning the Flamingo, Florida Derby and Blue Grass by open lengths (the latter by 13) and after the Belmont, won the Arlington Classic by 13 and the Whitney by 10 before the Travers that he was awarded by DQ of Affirmed. He was injured thereafter and though he returned for several races at 4, he wasn\'t the same.

This was truly a horse denied a Triple Crown by a horse he simply couldn\'t beat. Affirmed and Alydar met 10 times and Affirmed finished in front on eight of those occasions. Nine times they finished one-two.

Title: Re: Sham/Alydar fact check
Post by: Chuckles_the_Clown2 on June 03, 2003, 05:56:05 PM
If Secretariat was a God (Personally I dont believe that) than Sham who beat him in the Wood and ran him game in the Derby and Preakness was certainly a demigod. It depends upon at what level you think Secretariat ran. I think he was very good. But I\'m not certain he\'d have beat a couple other horses that ran after him. The tracks were scalding he set records on.
Title: Re: Head, Heart and Hooves
Post by: sabowen on June 03, 2003, 07:15:03 PM
as an aside, if you have read the book \"$tud\", they actually sell storm cat\'s muck to campbell soups ! that is, for fertilizer for the mushrooms for their highly popular all-purpose soup. as the book says, even this horse\'s **** is money!
Title: Re: It was a crying "sham"e
Post by: sabowen on June 03, 2003, 07:33:05 PM
not true about the 60% unidentified investors!  i bit and went to the nytimes site and surely the article did leave much to the imagination but i must attribute this as being much of the same ilk that permeated the miami herald\'s sensationalism about santo\'s \"funny ride\", although much more demure.  in fact, after the fact i recalled reading after either the derby or preakness the complete ownership roll call, and for verification if you wish, search google for funny cide ownership and the washington post has the complete breakdown of ownership. nothing sinister there.
Title: Re: Head, Heart and Hooves
Post by: sabowen on June 03, 2003, 09:23:23 PM
ps- man o\' war was buried in total. saw the photos of his burial.
Title: Re: Sham/Alydar fact check
Post by: MO on June 04, 2003, 06:46:29 AM
It might have been a different outcome  had Alydar ever been able to change leads in the stretch. It certainly would have made for closer finishes.

And I think that the only thing that can beat Funny Cide Saturday is his lead changing problem. This is a pathetic field, nothing for him to beat. He\'ll be 3-5 and I\'ll be watching and rooting for a triple crown win by a New York bred gelding.



Post Edited (06-04-03 09:51)
Title: Re: Sham/Alydar fact check
Post by: Chuckles_the_Clown2 on June 04, 2003, 08:00:29 AM
Mark

These are good horses: Empire Maker, Ten Most Wanted, Dynever, Best Minister. Even Scrimshaw with the way Lukas can sometimes jump a horse up.

I don\'t particularly like Funny\'s last work. Neither do some of the other trainers. It causes me the most concern. However, I think on Belmont Day, Funny speed pops the field and he\'s liable to be all alone on the front for a very long time...maybe into history.

CtC