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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: JimP on November 08, 2010, 07:11:17 AM

Title: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: JimP on November 08, 2010, 07:11:17 AM
... that I haven\'t felt but a few times in racing. Such as Secretariat\'s last race or Ruffian breakdown. Now we will never get to see this great mare Zenyatta run another race. These horses don\'t come along very often. It will likely be a very long time before we are privileged to see another one.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: Silver Charm on November 08, 2010, 09:23:46 AM
I was backstretch after Silver Charm lost a \"wild one\" in the 98 Classic. We stood next to trainer Sonny Hine as Skip Away was being walked to settle down. Sonny and Carolyn Hine were also the owners of \"Skippie\". He earned them $9M+ and was to be Syndicated for Stud. They never had any children and after 40 yrs in The Biz, Skippie was their Lottery Ticket.

My friend said to Sonny, \"its ok, you will be back. You will have another.\" Hine\'s eyes never left his horse, he shook his head NO, and said \"Not like this one. Not in my lifetime. NEVER!\" Hine died a year later and I have never forgotten those words he uttered.

There may be somebody else super great and brilliant that comes along. But there will not be another Zenyatta. At least not in our lifetime......
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: Sandreadis on November 08, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Great story Silver and agreed about Z.
Thanks

Never forget Skippie\'s 96 Bluegrass. I knew he was special.
I just saw an old quote from TGJB calling Skippie \"the most underated horse of all time\".
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: sekrah on November 08, 2010, 10:34:29 AM
Skip Away was one of the true greats..  Don\'t got a TG sheet on him but in 1997 he had an 8 race stretch where he never ran worse than a 115 beyer.  From Oct 97 to Sept 98, he ripped off 9 in a row against the best of the best, spotting them 12-18 pounds.   This was all done back in the day when these animals would very often go into every race on 3-4 weeks rest and spacing was a conspiracy theory that had to be talked about in hushed tones.    He probably would won another 3-5 races if Bailey had ridden him his entire career instead of Sellers.

Skip Away is the real definition of greatness.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: Uncle Buck on November 08, 2010, 12:26:17 PM
Skippy was a fun horse. Not great. Gentlemen spotted him weight and still beat him. Formal Gold used to wear him out pretty good too. I will say that Skippy\'s \'97 BC Classic was a damn impressive performance although his main rivals were missing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge1mQDgKtuQ
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: Sandreadis on November 08, 2010, 01:16:22 PM
Buck, Skip Away 38 starts 18 wins 10 places 6 shows
$9.6 Million earned and the best adjectve you can come up with is \"fun\".
Since SA isn\'t \"great\", who are your post Affirmed greats? Let me guess, Easy Goer who lost 3 of 4 to SS.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: sekrah on November 08, 2010, 01:25:41 PM
Not to mention the several track records he broke.  To not call this horse one of the all-time greats is ridiculous.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: Uncle Buck on November 08, 2010, 01:29:07 PM
John Henry, Cigar, Zenyatta come to mind off the top of my head. But perhaps fun was the wrong word yes. Damn good older horse. How\'s that?
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: Silver Charm on November 08, 2010, 04:38:56 PM
Skippie beat Cigar when he was three. I repeat when he was three. Skippie was 2-3 lengths better late in his 4YO campaign and until the fall of his 5YO was totally unbeatable. I believe he carried 132 in the Iselin.

Skippie was a great horse. Probably Top 25 of all-time.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: sekrah on November 09, 2010, 02:42:38 AM
Zenyatta ain\'t a pimple on Skippy\'s ass Buck.  

After Skip Away\'s 5 year old season he had a career 23 Beyer\'s over 110.   Zenyatta had 1.

Even among mares she\'ll never be more than a runner-up to Ruffian.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: richiebee on November 09, 2010, 05:13:51 AM
From Today\'s New York Post: \"Zenyatta\'s star power nearly tripled television
ratings for the Breeders Cup Classic. ESPN said yesterday the preliminary rating
for the one hour broadcast window that included her race was up 180 percent from
last year.\"
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: FrankD. on November 09, 2010, 05:30:39 AM
Star power as well as creeping into prime time on a Saturday night.

Let\'s face it Richie were going to have to drink less during the day as a prime time Kentucky Derby with an 8:30 post time is on the horizon.

 More fans, more interest, more money in the pools all sound too good to be true. Worry not the God\'s of racing will find a way to screw it up !
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: richiebee on November 09, 2010, 05:38:30 AM
Frank:

Now that there is no more Thoroughbred Racing by the Moon at the Ghettolands, its
not hard to imagine night racing coming to Ozone Park.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: Rich Curtis on November 09, 2010, 05:42:36 AM
Sekrah wrote:

\"Even among mares she\'ll never be more than a runner-up to Ruffian.\"

 There was no Thoro-Graph back then, but on Ragozin, Ruffian had a top of 5 and was running 7s before the match race.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: marcus on November 09, 2010, 06:54:53 AM
I can relate to Jim\'s sadness about Z at the top of the thread . I don\'t remember quite a few of his historic references first hand - but it does seem that sometimes things are meant to be and fate intervenes - however ironically Zenyetta doesn\'t fit that bill imo . On a visceral level and even at 19- 1 she seems to have unfinished business on the track and potentially many good races in front of her yet . ..
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: Leamas57 on November 09, 2010, 07:43:36 AM
I heard they tried to get her to host Saturday Night Live...

Leamas
Title: Zenyatta: Doesn't have to be sad
Post by: Flighted Iron on November 09, 2010, 08:48:22 AM
Marcus,

I like the way you think.Z\'s ability has been in question and probably will be(for
anybody with an opinion)ad infinitum.The one thing that\'s certainly not in question is the fact She\'s a Star.

 Love to see her come back next year.Anyone else? Heck,Goldie\'s coming back.
Someone mentioned(i think our host)loving to see Zenyatta try the grass.Imagine
if she took to it? Post 2011 BC HEADLINES: Americas champ steamrolls euros in
Turf Classic.

RACING NEEDS OUR STARS
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: sekrah on November 09, 2010, 10:19:33 AM
Wow, Ragozin numbers.  Scrapping the bottom of the barrel there to make your case aren\'t you?

She tied the Belmont track record at 5 1/2 furlong in her maiden race, and ran 8 stakes races setting the stakes record in every one of them while being ridden out in 5-13 length victories.  She ran a 2:27.4 in the CCA Oaks which would of won by the Belmont by a couple lengths that year.   Without a shadow of a doubt the greatest female horse of all time.   Unfortunantly luck wouldn\'t be so kind to her as it has been to Zenyatta.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: Rich Curtis on November 09, 2010, 11:21:56 AM
Sekrah wrote:

\"Wow, Ragozin numbers. Scrapping the bottom of the barrel there to make your case aren\'t you?\"

Well, I figure that since you have posted on the bottom of that barrel, I could quote figures from it.

\"She tied the Belmont track record at 5 1/2 furlong in her maiden race, and ran 8 stakes races setting the stakes record in every one of them while being ridden out in 5-13 length victories. She ran a 2:27.4 in the CCA Oaks which would of won by the Belmont by a couple lengths that year.\"

  Raw times? Your barrel is even deeper than I thought. Can\'t you at least go back to quoting Beyers?

  Now I\'m hoping that JB will tell us in whose favor he thinks Ragozin would blow the Zenyatta/Ruffian figures, given the trends.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: TGJB on November 09, 2010, 11:35:28 AM
This goes back to the ability/accomplishment thing-- apples and oranges. Like comparing Ruth and Bonds.

Yes, that\'s part of what I mean, not about Zenyatta, but in general.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: Rich Curtis on November 09, 2010, 11:41:50 AM
\" Like comparing Ruth and Bonds.\"

  This looks like a good opening for a post from magicnight, or perhaps I am just thinking wishfully.
Title: Re: A Sadness Today ...
Post by: magicnight on November 09, 2010, 01:16:23 PM
Bonds vs Ruth? Well, since I\'m on a roll with my comparisons these days, I\'d suggest that a more appropriate one would be Ruth (with the Sox) versus Lincecum, if you sniff my drift.

[Edit: This should have linked to the later Rich Curtis post, above.]
Title: Re: Zenyatta: Doesn't have to be sad
Post by: marcus on November 09, 2010, 07:48:22 PM
You got it exactly %100 right \'Flighted . Zenyetta really has energized racing . For her to continue a campaign on the International or Global circuit almost sounds like a return to those glory days for racing . ..