Sounds like the Euros are down right upset with how hard the turf is. Henry Cecil said, \"They\'ve got to take the jar out of the ground, you can\'t expect million pound horses to run on a road. Unless they take the jar out, which I\'m sure they will, there has to be a possibility that one or two horses won\'t run. There\'s a lovely cover of grass but it is a tight track. They shouldn\'t change the ground, that would be unfair to fast ground horses, but we don\'t want any jar.\"
He\'s not the only one, Bloodhorse is reporting that Workforce might scratch.
Bloodhorse (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59634/firm-turf-could-lead-to-scratch-of-workforce)
Finally get away from the plastic and now we get a rock hard turf course?
For those who know -- is there any chance that CD officials will aerate, water, or otherwise address the \'concrete\' issue?
Apparently,a track official told several trainers who complained about the turf to worry about training the horses and the track management would take care of the course. Typical of the arrogant clueless clowns that run racing.
Track super Butch Lehr however stated that he would have the track, main and turf in top condition. Turf course reportedly torn up at top of the stretch to 1/8 pole from some use by CD during summer festivals.
I think they will have it in top shape and it wont be an issue.
mike
So, who moves up on this kind of turf course?
Would this make the CD turf course analagous to the surface Sydney\'s Candy ran on at Delmar?
Given the weather forecast
http://www.wunderground.com/US/KY/Louisville.html
(below freezing Friday night) I doubt they will do anything sifnificant.
Jim,
There were two maiden races on the grass at CD opening day.In both races, the course played firm,not brick.Raw times were normal. CD rarely \"bricks\" like CALI/MONMOUTH/SPA/BELMONT/GULF.
Both turf races were won by horses that looked good going in and both winners were near the lead. If the track super is to be believed they will water this course over the next few days, if no rain.While is sounds counterintuitive, adding a certain amount of water to this sand based course may make the base firmer and produced faster,not slower raw times.
There are two more turf races both tomorrow and Thursday which may yield some info on how the course will play Fri and Sat. Good Luck!
Mike
With some of the cost cutting measures to meet the bottom line the use of water was probably eliminated.
The Concert was called Hullabalu, cost the track $5M and former president Steve Sexton his job.
It was a redneck country concert in the infield. Typical of what you would expect at Royal Ascot or say River Downs.
Just be what you really are. A great race track. Monster Truck Pulls, Rock Concerts, Car Shows etc never work. In this instance quality global runners may walk away and never come back.
I was thinking the same thing. Track record for a mile at CD turf is, I think, 133.56. SC ran about 133.09 for the mile at DM when he set the track record for 1 1/16.
I think I have this right.
Leamas
Mike,
Makes sense. Don\'t remember seeing CD play like Monmouth or California (brick) over the years, but don\'t play a lot of CD either.
Turf races the next few days will be good clues.
Thanks,
JIm
Mike:
Agree. With nightime temps in the 40\'s, its unlikely the course is rock hard.
Cecil a better complainer than he is a trainer. I\'m praying Workforce is in the gate. I will bet against him with both fists.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
Joe B,
Not saying I love Workforce, but what makes you want to bet so hard against this horse? The Euros win this race almost every year and Workforce has very competitive figures, albeit he will be a bit underlaid.
I\'d be really skeptical of this.
First off, there\'s a lot of time between the last race Thursday and Friday AM. Enough time to radically change the surface and how it would play.
Plus...the Euros have trounced the Americans over the years at many different tracks. No American turf course is going to play like a European turf course, period. Unless it rains non-stop for days ahead of time, and even then...it\'s not the same as steady rain over a period of time.
I don\'t agree with some of the other assessments here either. The other tracks don\'t get rock hard? And they don\'t water before BC? Do you know the song \"It Never Rains in Southern California?\" They\'ve done well out there. Florida doesn\'t get baked? Really?
Skeptical of all of it. HP
HP,
Do you want to talk about your skepticism or are you going to throw a better postulate out there? How are you going to play the turf races then?
Jim:
I feel strongly that he will significantly regress off of the Arc. This is an owner\'s decision to run
As for Euro success, I don\'t disagree. Two American wins and 2 seconds at CD however.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
Hi Jimbo - I guess I don\'t see this as that much different than any other year/ We are going to have to handicap horses off of their Euro form and the way they will handle the relatively harder surfaces here is a bit of a mystery. Two year olds are coming over after running on soft turf every start. And firm turf in Europe is not the same as firm turf in the US.
I don\'t see anything particulary unique to CD. If anything I think CD is a bit more neutral for the Euros than Fla. or Southern Cali where they might be facing 80-90 degree weather. Obviously if they\'ve run in the US you may get a better read, but with plenty of the good ones you\'re weighing in new variables and a few wild card issues.
From past experience, I think the TG Euro numbers have held up very well. So I\'m going to look at the TG figs, I\'m going to try to translate the Euro explanations in the racing form into something my American brain can figure out (speed, stalk, close, etc.) and go from there. And if it\'s a tossup based on past experience I\'m going to give the Euro(s) a little extra credit. Basically another day at the track. I can\'t see myself sitting there saying...\"but the turf is going to be rock hard and I\'m throwing out this Euro because of it.\" They win all the time, at Woodbine, So Cal, Fla, Belmont, wherever they go. I\'m not buying into the \"Churchill difference\" now.
It sounds like a good idea to watch the races Weds/Thurs to get a clue but ask yourself how much water you could put down overnight. Answer is...who knows? I don\'t see the percentage in agonizing over something where I will not be able to determine the answer. If you find out please tell me! Otherwise we can watch the first few turf races Friday and that will be the best real guage of what is going on.
HP
Kentucky has been under drought conditions for months, so the turf course is probably harder than normal.
CD turf goes through spells of speed bias, more often than the average U.S. course. Looked speedy on opening day Sunday. Keep watching.
I give up. If they water it all night on Thursday it\'s not going to be \"harder than normal.\" I have a feeling the people in Louisville read the papers and know what the weather has been lately.
HP
I think it\'s a major concern, do nothing and maybe they lose two huge draws in Workforce and Midday and maybe those trainers don\'t come back again.
The turf has only been won twice with a horse going wire to wire and both times that occurred at CD. Buck\'s Boy and Great Communicator.
Tom Amoss on \"The Works\" yesterday... \"Track super usually puts about 20,000 gal of water on turf course this time of yr, starting Nov. 2 he will be putting 100,000 gal. of water on it up to the BC...as someone stated prior, with this being a sand based course who knows what they\'ll end up with.
HMMM..watering the course to soften it up only to freeze....HMMM....
Hey Folks hope you all are doing well. I may finally give it a go this weekend for a change...life has been really busy here lately. To give you an idea how the year has gone, first day up at the SPA closing weekend my wife breaks her ankle in two places.....luckily the enlarged lymph nodes cancer scare is over for her..in the end ...we were made to worry for naught but thank GOD for that!!
Hopefully I can catch up and make a few decent plays this weekend!!
A Special Hello to Richiebee, I\'m still alive and kickin!
Redneck....country concert..hmmm aren\'t we opinionated. Guess we can stereotype \"redneck white people who may or may not be TEA PARTY members\" without impunity these days.
I do recall they had the Rolling Stones there as well, and survived that mess too. Guess you might find that one at Royal Ascot.....but hardly at River Downs my friend.
The world is ever changing...the tracks need to make money...let them do what they got to do to survive. There is no reason this damn thing has to be at Churchill ever again either (except that\'s where the NTRA lives).
Belmont may want to consider a few Billy Joel / Bruce Springsteen / Lady GAGA concerts to raise some $$$
Hey Tony,
Sorry to hear about your wife\'s ankle, that limited the dancing at Siro\'s I\'m sure ! Glad all else is well and welcome back aboard. I\'ve been buried as well with work but am starting a horse players holiday today.
So dive into the sheets, ignore the tractor pulls and demolition derby\'s and let\'s crush the cup !!!!
Good luck,
FD
Don Antonio:
Great to hear from you and glad to hear you are weathering the storm.
With the BC at CD, was thinking about you quite a bit ... at the last CDBC I
recall you nailed both Juvie races (Dreaming of Anna and Street Sense) and scored
big by sticking with one of your favorite betting horses, Miesque\'s Approval.
I\'ll take this opportunity to compliment the TG staff on a brilliant presentation
of the seminar which was easily accessed as evidenced by the fact that we did not
have the annual \"I can\'t download the damn thing\" post from NCT.
Look forward to hearing your opinion on some of these races...
NoCarolinaTony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Redneck....country concert..hmmm aren\'t we
> opinionated. Guess we can stereotype \"redneck
> white people who may or may not be TEA PARTY
> members\" without impunity these days.
>
> I do recall they had the Rolling Stones there as
> well, and survived that mess too. Guess you might
> find that one at Royal Ascot.....but hardly at
> River Downs my friend.
>
> The world is ever changing...the tracks need to
> make money...let them do what they got to do to
> survive. There is no reason this damn thing has to
> be at Churchill ever again either (except that\'s
> where the NTRA lives).
>
> Belmont may want to consider a few Billy Joel /
> Bruce Springsteen / Lady GAGA concerts to raise
> some $$$
NCT:
NYRA\'s money problems will be a thing of the past once the Malaysian group turns
Aqueduct into the World\'s largest and most opulent Racino/Opium Den/Massage Parlor
(Hows that for stereotyping?!)
I know you are a big fan of GaGa, a graduate of one of NYC\'s older Catholic
schools, Convent of the Sacred Heart; makes one wonder how she would have turned
out if the Jesuits had gotten a hold of her.
The Tea Party will be represented at the BC by First Dude, named for Sarah
Palin\'s husband. I guess a Quality Road/First Dude exacta box is the way to go if
you like to mix Tea with your Kool Aid.
Great line at the end. Classic.
Good news, Tony. So next year you can go out with a clear mind and shoot even better than 75 at Saratoga National?
Jerry I can\'t claim a 75 but it was a 78....my most enjoyable moment this past SPA event was talking with your Daughter on Woodward Day.....she is bright...you will have your hands full.....
Good Luck to all. Just about to hit the sheets now...trying the new approach of coming in fresh without bias......lets see how it goes...
Richiebee.. i am ready to finance your book...lets go...
NCT