why send zenyatta to run a race a mile and a quarter on dirt againt your main rival in a grade 1 race...could you imagine what zenyatta would have done today...worst handling of a top horse...ever...woody stephens is spinning somewhere...what\'s z going for next...the belt parkway handicap...
I believe she\'ll be going for 19 in a row.
He\'s thinking \"Man i\'m SO glad i didnt race in the Pacific Classic, i wouldnt have wanted to face that superstar Richards Kid\"
Smalltimer,
Yes 19 in a row. At least 15 of them against nobody or slightly better than nobody.
Agree with Chowderman completely in that Shirreffs has put her in the position where if she doesn\'t run well in the BC Classic, there becomes a huge asterisk next to her synthetic/California-based/redundant campaigns. Whereas if he actually raced her once in a while in a competitive race, the view would be completely different.
Connection of Pepper\'s Pride must be nervous.
Jimbo,
Z will give a good account of herself in the Classic, I seriously doubt she\'ll be wobbling home in 27 seconds.
Z will go down as one of the greatest females of all time, period. Public opinion exists outside this TG forum.
Have a good one.
Maybe they\'ll un-retire her and take on Rachel now?
smalltimer Wrote:
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> I seriously doubt [Zenyatta will] be wobbling home
> in 27 seconds.
Correct. Zenyatta gets her incredibly slow quarters out of the way early in the race.
She depends on everyone else to do the dirty work up front and kill all the speed -- the perfect racing style for counterfeit racing surfaces.
Rick B. Wrote:
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> smalltimer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I seriously doubt be wobbling home
> > in 27 seconds.
>
> Correct. Zenyatta gets her incredibly slow
> quarters out of the way early in the race.
>
> She depends on everyone else to do the dirty work
> up front and kill all the speed -- the perfect
> racing style for counterfeit racing surfaces.
Or ANY closer on ANY surface.
Uh Rick, thats what closers do, they get faster later in the race.
Its what makes them \"closers\".
On any surface.
1-- Closers seldom run faster the last quarter than the first. Generally they run evenly as the others decelerate.
2-- Rick\'s point (correct or not) was that certain surfaces were more conducive to one running style than another.
TGJB wrote:
\"Rick\'s point (correct or not) was that certain surfaces were more conducive to one running style than another.\"
I thought his point was that Zenyatta has depended on invisible horses doing all this invisible work early in her races and thus invisibly killing each other off, thus allowing Zenyatta to get lucky and lucky and lucky and win and win and win, quite visibly at that.
You really think you can get lucky 18 times with multiple Grade 1\'s and 2 BC Championships?
Exactly where in my post did I suggest Zenyatta has depended on invisible horses doing the work?
She\'s won in every style imaginable regardless of fast pace, slow pace, no pace.
She\'s 6 years old and still a horse to contend with.
JB and I are talking about Rick B\'s post, not yours.
Rich Curtis Wrote:
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> I thought his point was that Zenyatta has
> depended on invisible horses doing all this
> invisible work early in her races and thus
> invisibly killing each other off, thus allowing
> Zenyatta to get lucky and lucky and lucky and win
> and win and win, quite visibly at that.
Riiiight.
There have never been any pace battles in any of Zenyatta\'s races.
Zenyatta, unlike every other closer in the history of horse racing, has never, EVER benefitted from front-runners going out and banging heads; she simply does ALL of the work, every time, all by herself, thus invalidating 50 or more years of study of pace, energy distribution, race shapes -- all of that stuff is clearly bullshit.
My bad.
Rick B wrote:
\"Zenyatta, unlike every other closer in the history of horse racing, has never, EVER benefitted from front-runners going out and banging heads; she simply does ALL of the work, every time, all by herself, thus invalidating 50 or more years of study of pace, energy distribution, race shapes -- all of that stuff is clearly bullshit\"
Re-writing your first post in this string so that Zenyatta had to benefit from only one fast pace in her career for you to be right? Good idea, Rick. Indeed, anything that gets you away from your first post in this string is a good idea.
If you recall Zenyatta loping dead last during the first quarter in the BC Classic, she galloped that opening quarter in 27.1, the same pace as Rachel came home in the other day.
If she bounced, she should deserve a shot to redeem herself in the Classic at 10 furlongs.
If QR makes the starting gate it will make for an interesting battle in the stretch once the closers start to move.
I hope Rachel\'s camp enters her with the Classic bunch.
Rich Curtis Wrote:
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> Re-writing your first post in this string so that
> Zenyatta had to benefit from only one fast pace in
> her career for you to be right? Good idea, Rick.
> Indeed, anything that gets you away from your
> first post in this string is a good idea.
I stand by my first post in this string.
Your objectivity in matters regarding Zenyatta and / or counterfeit surfaces is noted.
Rick B wrote:
\"I stand by my first post in this string.\"
Oh. Well, then, let me take this opportunity to stand by mine.
\"Your objectivity in matters regarding Zenyatta and / or counterfeit surfaces is noted.\"
Gee, thanks, Your objectivity in these matters was first noted by me during your exchange with Bruno De Julio on his website, though I think you overrate our (CA) air quality a bit.
Rich Curtis Wrote:
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> Gee, thanks, Your objectivity in these matters
> was first noted by me during your exchange with
> Bruno De Julio on his website.
Ah, finally, the ax is revealed.
You mean Bruno \"Big Price\" De Julio? Friend of yours?
Love that guy. Huge genius -- after the fact. How is his stable doing lately, and when will he be changing trainers (again)?
Rick B wrote:
\"Ah, finally, the ax is revealed.
You mean Bruno \'Big Price\' De Julio? Friend of yours?\"
With apologies to Andre Gide: Please do not understand me too quickly, Rick. No, Bruno is not my friend. I don\'t even use his workout reports anymore. Hell of a Thoro-Graph employee, though. Very sharp eye.
\"How is his stable doing lately\"
You might want to ask NYC1347 about that. I believe Bruno owns one of NYC\'s recent winners.
\"Very sharp eye\"
...now there\'s one for the dust bin!
Miff wrote:
\"...now there\'s one for the dust bin!\"
Is that a \"fact\"?
Rich,
Good one. Re Rufffian, another fig maker, Andy Beyer believed that Ruffian ran faster as a 2 yr old than Secretariat.
Mike
Miff,
Yes, I don\'t believe Ruffian developed much. Here, by the way, is Friedman writing in August of last year about Zenyatta and Rachel:
\"The most unusual aspect of the comparison between RA and ZEN is that they both have shown the ability to run top efforts on both dirt and poly. I think that there is some justice in your approach of comparing dirt horses to dirt horses and poly and grass horses similarly, but in this case it\'s not really necessary. Some of Zen\'s numbers may be slower because of slow paces (even after we make our correction) but her top effort is a point faster than RA\'s best and Zen has many efforts within a point or two of RA\'s top. RA\'s efforts are as a 3yo as against Zen\'s top form at 4yo, but there are no guarantees that RA will be able to run faster numbers in the future even if she is campaigned as a 4yo (we can only hope that will be the case). They are head and shoulders the best of any mares in modern times and to me it would be hard to pick the likely winner if they were to match up on dirt or poly.\"