Can someone explain to me how/why Kent D. gives some horses great rides and then other times he does the most inexplicable things during a race.
Now, the man has won the Derby and lots of other big races multiple times so he\'a clearly a generally good rider but why does he so often insist on making big middle moves to take his horses from near last to near first going down the backside only to have them run out of gas in the lane.
He did it on Hold Me Back in last year\'s derby, he did it with Raging Wit in the Dania Beach Stakes earlier this year and he did it again yesterday with Mushka in the Orchid. I am sure others could come up with a bunch of other expamples but these 3 stick out to me recently.
Why does he do this?
getting older. Risk taking is for the young guys. This happens to EVERY successful rider.
If you guy\'s remember his career was all but over in 2005 & 2006 ? He was a
\" shower rider \" on the Cali Circuit ! He would come to the track ride 1 or 2 take a shower and go home.
He moved his tack to NY and hooked up with Bill Mott and they got hot, sizzling hot in 2007 at the Belmont & Saratoga meets all through the Spring, Summer & Fall of 2007. He was back on top again and then came Big Brown in 2008 and more Triple Crown success.
Without a doubt he\'s one of the best to ever sit in a saddle but he\'s had some out to lunch rides in the past year or so that have left me wondering as well ??? As well as 2 of the best back to back rides I\'ve ever seen on Arlington Million Day in the Secretariat & Beverley D.
Take the Points is owned by a friend of mine and he\'s stated that he is a very difficult horse to ride, very rank. Kent nursed him around the Arlington Course in the Secretariat for his first Grade I win and followed it up in the Beverley D. with a ground saving trip on Dynaforce who paid $ 17.60
JB gave out Dynaforce in the seminar that day at Saratoga and with Take the Points, Gio Ponti in the Million and an even money entry in the race before the Secretariat the pick 4 came back $ 763.00 !!!!
Same move on Sweetnorthernsaint in 2006 Derby.
While I too have questioned some of his rides, the truth is I\'d rather have him riding for me as opposed to against me in any race.
Mushka had no chance in the race Sunday, middle move or no middle move. She needed the race, which seemed obvious coming in off an off-effort for her and a layoff.
If you wanted to get upset about that race, think about losing by a nose to another Wolfson \'project.\' That\'s what happened to the truly best horse (for yesterday) in the race.
i mentioned something about this on here with Kent at the end of last year when JB gives out his yearly gift to us all. I remember looking thru a bunch of races and saw that Kent had went out to Santa anita and had about 12 starts or so with no wins and no ITM\'s! and it wasnt even like he didnt have competitve horses the mounts seemed to be right there on paper with the others. I dunno.. weird to me.. unless he just gets lazy every so often and starts drinking a lot.. who knows.
Alm,
Tell me about it. I laid the wood down on Lady S yesterday as I posted here ahead of time. I am a win/place guy so I got my money back but it would have been nice to win that one.
NYC1347 wrote:
\"i mentioned something about this on here with Kent at the end of last year when JB gives out his yearly gift to us all. I remember looking thru a bunch of races and saw that Kent had went out to Santa anita and had about 12 starts or so with no wins and no ITM\'s! and it wasnt even like he didnt have competitve horses the mounts seemed to be right there on paper with the others. I dunno.. weird to me.. unless he just gets lazy every so often and starts drinking a lot.. who knows\"
I believe you are confused about the dates and the difference between ITM and ROI.
thanks for the correction
In that sense, Kent reminds me a lot of Franco Dettori in Europe. A very talented rider who can make both brilliant and bonehead moves - sometimes both in the same race.
I\'m not sure that these characteristics in the same guy is a coincidence. He is an ultra-competitive guy who never wants it said of him that he didn\'t get his horse into contention in time. He has said that he rides like the 8th pole was the finish line.
He is very good at getting his horses into contention, but sometimes it seems that he is so obsessed with this that he doesn\'t realize what this might take out of his horse.
Anyway, just my take on understanding the guy. I would definitely rather have him on my horse than on one of the others.
Bob
I think that you nailed it.
If you want to see his all-time bonehead ride, watch the Real Quiet Belmont Stakes. If he sits still in the saddle and rides the horse through the lane, he wins. But Kent D cannot sit still.
He got all over the horse, moving around in the saddle, whipping him, turning his head to see Victory Gallop coming on. Everything that he could do to throw the horse off balance. He loses by an inch...goodbye Triple Crown.
And then there\'s the give-up ride on Big Brown...
My two least favorite Deormeaux moves are:
1) Urging out of the gate to try to get position but still getting hung wide around the first turn and the horse is half done. (Note he did this on Drosselmeyer on Saturday and it worked, he got to the rail)
2) The dreaded premature backstretch move (his feature move in several recent Derbys)
alm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think that you nailed it.
>
> If you want to see his all-time bonehead ride,
> watch the Real Quiet Belmont Stakes. If he sits
> still in the saddle and rides the horse through
> the lane, he wins. But Kent D cannot sit still.
>
> He got all over the horse, moving around in the
> saddle, whipping him, turning his head to see
> Victory Gallop coming on. Everything that he
> could do to throw the horse off balance. He loses
> by an inch...goodbye Triple Crown.
True, I wanted to strangle him after his \'06 Derby ride on Sweetnorthernsaint, though he really redeemed himself in the \'09 Belmont with his perfectly timed move on Summer Bird. He said in his post-race interview that he let Mine That Bird and other horses pass him with their premature middle moves, determined not to make the same mistake. That horse really improved when Kent started ridding him and earned the 3YO colt Eclipse.
Speaking of interviews, I always get a kick out of Kent\'s. While its sometimes funny hearing him use the wrong words, it\'s also a refreshing change from many other jocks who merely repeat the usual boring cliche. So the guy doesn\'t have a college degree, but he at least tries to sound intelligent and original.
I guess it\'s the same with his rides. He shoots for the moon. When he fails it\'s a disaster, but when he succeeds it\'s a work of art.
Bob
And then there\'s the give-up ride on Big Brown...
Ill-bred,
Was it Kent or Big Brown that gave up?
mjs
Kent gave Big Brown an abysmal ride in the Belmont (a series of terrible decisions from the gate through the first turn) and once he was beat he wrapped up on the horse for no reason. So that\'s what I meant by giving up.
All this Desormeaux talk and no one has brought up how good he is at getting stewards calls!
He loves the overdramatic reaction and then the claim of foul. He cost me quite a bit when he got put up in the Arlington Million on Kicken Kris.
Ill-bred Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
He cost me quite a bit when he got
> put up in the Arlington Million on Kicken Kris.
Sounds like you have anymosity toward him for this race you lost because I can\'t see anything wrong with what he did on Big Brown..
Obviously he knew something went wrong so he wrapped up..should he have whipped him all the way to the finish line to finish second to last?
God I hate talking about the Belmont 2008..
Brings back those Dennis Of Cork nightmares
Lost Cause Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ill-bred Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >He cost me quite a bit when he got
> > put up in the Arlington Million on Kicken Kris.
>
> Sounds like you have anymosity toward him for this
> race you lost because I can\'t see anything wrong
> with what he did on Big Brown..
> Obviously he knew something went wrong so he
> wrapped up..should he have whipped him all the way
> to the finish line to finish second to last?
Anymosity is putting it too strong. But I do strongly believe stewards should not change the order of finish (for wagering purposes) if the infraction did not make a clear difference in the outcome. I believe it would be a much more attractive sport to gamble on without the inconsistent stewards\' rulings.
I\'ve seen Kent D get put up a number of times when he should not have been. When some other jocks just react to the trouble and keep riding their horse to it best finish, Kent D likes to make a big show of the trouble and plays to the stewards.
Note how he stood up on his horse at the wire and was screaming at the other jock in the \'04 Million. And that was just the start of his histrionics that day. Powerscourt was MUCH the best!
There is some kind of saying about judging one\'s character in defeat, and that also relates to his \'08 Belmont performance.
Kent D gave Big Brown a terrible ride (watch from starting gate through the first turn) and then he gave up. I would never advocate whipping a beaten horse, but it also is not acceptable to give up.
The premature move was about going into a half of app 52 seconds, sensing it, he figured he had to go to get into the race.Last half in 47.4 which translates to no chance in he stays 9th most of the way and sprints home.
All things slow(like a middle half in 52) are not that relevant and sometimes over rated optical illusions.
Kent D\'s reputation precedes him, brilliant one race, idiotic the next.
Mike
In my opinion no matter what kind of ride kent d gave big brown there was no way he was going to win the belmont. The signs were everwhere. He had just run two huge numbers and then regressed in the preakness. The horse always had soundness problems. He missed training leading up to the belmont due to a foot issue. Then he grabbed a quarter shortly out of the gate at belmont when he clipped heels. The horse was all over the track after that and had nothing left by the turn, and u want to blame kent for that?
No, I agree that BB wasn\'t going to win.
My point was that Kent D\'s effort was awful.
Kent D\'s ride on BB in the Belmont was questioned by the connections as well as his herky, jerky early moves in the Preakness.
Whatever the ride in the Belmont, which was beyond awful from the start, BB was not winning the Belmont on that day for many reasons.
Mike
I dont take anything away from his decision to pull up the horse. The fact is he wouldnt have gotten any of the purse money anyway AND he was playing it safe not forcing the horse to continue. Even with all the drama he did come back to win a couple months later at Monmouth in the Haskell.