http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/54394/breeders-cup-approves-strategic-plan
They are talking about 1 permenant sight for the Breeders\' Cup. Gee, I wonder where that would be................
Churchill, definitely, if it\'s permanent. And I agree.
Anywhere but California please.
I spoke with one of the board members of the BC this weekend, it\'s Santa Anita.
Don\'t shoot the messenger but that\'s the deal.
That\'s unfortunate. I\'ve attended nearly every one of the BCs that have been held outside LA and NY. Sorry to you LA and NY homeboys, but I hate those two cities. Two of the worst in the world in my opinion. I skip the BC when it is in either of those locations because I just don\'t like to go there. So if the BC becomes a permanent fixture of either of those locations it becomes a much less interesting event for me. I may be the only fan who feels that way, but they will lose at least one potential ticket buyer with this decision.
Cov,
Since a permanent synth site would probably be the worst possible scenario, you can bet the clueless clowns calling the shots will go that way.Can\'t argue with the Cali weather though,light years the best.
Mike
Mike,
I very much agree the permanent synthetic is a real issue.
Apparently (and of course I am getting this second hand remember so take it for what it\'s worth), the Euros affinity for Santa Anita and the usually firm ground is a big issue driving this decision. One of the goals of the board is to make the event as global as possible so whatever attracts the most European horses is very heavily weighted.
I see both sides of it. I love all of the Euros that come over, the weather and how much there is to do in LA. On the other hand, I like going around to the different venues and I don\'t like the fact that horses going from dirt to pro ride can\'t win. That factor does take alot away from the event (see Rachael).
Cov,
In their efforts to increase the participation of the Europeans,the clueless forget that anyone with half a brain and a fast dirt horse probably ain\'t coming to a synth venue.That alone could eliminate many of the best horses in the country from participating.
Did they even bother to note the horrific performance of 95+% of dirt horses.In the future,many will not point for the BC if it\'s to be run on synth.Will the clueless factor than in? Doubt it.
In most phases of racing, those in the fiefdoms are the cancer on a terrific game.Maybe in the not too distant future,when the players are gone, they can\'t all get together and have a nice circle jerk.
Mike
My best case BC scenario would be a 4 track rotation:
Belmont, Churchill, Santa Anita, Woodbine.
If hosting a BC is not a profitable venture, I can not see NYRA or CD pursuing
the matter.
I have no problem with the BC being run each year at Synthetic Anita, but the
Racing Powers that Be must think creatively and establish an end of year series
of traditional dirt championships.
Nobody mentioning the fact that SA being awarded BC permanently might be
conditioned on SA reinstalling a traditional dirt main track.
What is their motivation for locking in a permanent site? Is it a location fee or just weather-Euro related? Are they just frightened of the weather threatening the handle and attendance of a 2 day event like it did at Monmouth? I guess I can understand that. I would hate to plan for a multimillion event myself and have to sweat out the weather reports at gametime. Why would the tens of thousands of horses here bred for dirt even bother to nominate their foals for permanent synthetic-grass Cup? That is obviously a waste of money and it is expensive. The stallion owners would be better off just adding a $100 fee automatically in the stud fee to every horse bred and have every horse automatically nominated than try too get breeders to cough up the $500 per foal. Lots of smaller breeders are getting disenchanted with the Cup and not nominating foals that are not especially well bred.
Are there any hints that Santa Anita is going back to dirt main track any time soon?
If true, that\'s beyond absurd. No, wrong adjective: beyond stupid.
And that has nothing to do with the surface. Extra flight time for the Euro horses, not even close to the majority of your racing fan audience regarding filling your stands. Sure, okay for Japan and Australia, but really.
Perhaps Churchill (perfect choice I think) wouldn\'t play ball, and NYRA is too scary with their governmental involvement.
Could be a contract with Breeders Cup is the justification financially for returning SA to dirt?
That\'s quite possible. Complicating factor is, who will end up owning SA?
If they do go permanent synth they would be shooting themselves in the foot-- other tracks are sure to run big end of the year dirt races to get the top dirt horses. That might be the only justification for keeping the Haw Gold Cup and De Francis going.
Breeders Cup needs to emulate the NFL whenever possible. The NFL would never do anything as stupid as having a permanent site for the Super Bowl.
Maybe the Breeders Cup is buying Santa Anita on the cheap out of bankrupt sale. otherwise anyone think think Cup may be in primetime under the lights at Churchill?
Statistically, Churchill\'s worst BC, attendance - wise, dwarfs every Cali BC save one., and that one was a photo finish.
More people in the stands means more live handle.
Churchill is an easier ship for the Euros.
The original plan was a rotating event and it should stay that way. There should have been a BC run in Europe by now as well. And as with Churchill, there are no reported earthquakes in the last 100 years.............
I think the powers that be should consider running the Breeders Cup in two locations simultaneously.
They should try running the turf races in Europe and dirt races here, or a combination of poly/turf there and poly/turf here, depending on which American track was chosen. Enough poly surfaces are showing up in Europe that this will soon be possible if not already. I\'m sure the owners of the new billion dollar facility going in in County Tipperary would be glad to include a poly track if it made the facility usable for the BC. With 5 hours between London and New York at least a few races could be run concurrently with other \'filler\' stakes for the live crowds in either location to enjoy.
MO Wrote:
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> Statistically, Churchill\'s worst BC, attendance -
> wise, dwarfs every Cali BC save one., and that one
> was a photo finish.
>
> More people in the stands means more live handle.
> Churchill is an easier ship for the Euros.
> The original plan was a rotating event and it
> should stay that way. There should have been a BC
> run in Europe by now as well. And as with
> Churchill, there are no reported earthquakes in
> the last 100 years.............
On what European dirt track would you suggest we hold the dirt racing on?
Don\'t forget who paid for the BC and that\'s NA breeders. Let teh Europeans develop their own Breeders Cup if they want one.
Funny Cide:
Mo can respond to your question re/ dirt track choice since you directed it to him, although I posted something very similiar.
But as to \'letting the Euros develop their own BC\' let me say this-
I do nominate foals and were I to raise one good enough to run in the BC I would be DELIGHTED if it turned out to be good enough to run in any BC race, anywhere.
Is dirt racing the issue? After all, they are trying to sell Santa Anita\'a polytrack as an incentive to bring the Euros over here. Poly aint dirt.
So, as long as we are selling polytrack, we should be willing to reciprocate, no?We should be willing to run on a Euro - all - weather - track. So, why not have the BC here:
http://ggbmagazine.com/issue/vol-8-no-12-december-2009/article/ireland-eyes-casino-resort-with-racetrack
Weather has to be an issue. The Monmouth debacle and the BC at Belmont some years back were horribly uncomfortable for those in attendance.Monmouth a wet mess and Belmont a cuppy wind dried surface with jocks steering to the 5 path to get away from the fence.
Cali and Florida are the only two possible venues where the bad weather factor can be somewhat mitigated.In Florida,Gulfstream has been destroyed by Stronach as a possible venue, so that only leaves Cali,weather wise.Kentucky and NY are very iffy in November.Rip up the rug at Santa and maybe it\'s not a bad idea to have as a permanent site,dirt only.
After the dust settles, I think the BC will be rotated much as it is now.
Mike
I\'m glad you said it. If I made that comment, it would have been deleted.
I\'m not being facious BTW when I speak of an earthquake.
I was at Santa Anita for the Northridge quake. Prior to that experience I was seriously considering a move to LA. After that quake, I didn\'t go back to California for 15 years. Imagine an earthquake during the BC. Pretty scary, which is why the subject is never brought up. But if you were taking bets on which track was most likely to experience an earthquake during the BC, SA would be a heavy favorite. And THINK ABOUT the repercussions.........................
And people whine about a thunderstorm at Monmouth???????? A sloppy track is a walk in the park compared to an earthquake.
First of all, is anyone sure Santa Anita will still be in operation on a permanent basis? I\'m still thinking it will be a mall or a country club within 5 years, so I wouldn\'t worry too much about this. If they don\'t make major changes, they won\'t have an industry in California very soon. (I hope Jerry doesn\'t delete this message due to it\'s strong language). But, really, if they took out the synthetic track, it wouldn\'t be a bad venue. Though I still favor a rotation. As far as the weather factor, great horses should run in all kinds of weather, so having it in places where the weather may not be great should not be a deterrent. In the final analysis, it\'s just one or two days of racing anyway. Does it really mean that much to someone like me who plays horses 300 days a year? I\'m more concerned with who\'ll win the 8th race tonight at Remington Park.
BC and CD have had a rocky relationship, CD tries to play hardball because they are the best host site for many reasons, and they know it. If I was trying to make a deal with them the first thing I would do was have a deal almost done with someone else...
Dana-- strong language and strong opinions are two different things, I would never delete something like that. The stuff driving me nuts was personal backbiting between posters. Fire away.
Ritchie isn\'t SA in the process of being sold or auctioned off.
So nobody can be sure what surface the new group prefers and they may very well want to include enough CAPEX funding in the deal to make the switch back to dirt.
If the venue is kept at one location year-over-year they would certainly help the operators.
Thanks for clearing it up.
MO Wrote:
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> I\'m not being facious BTW when I speak of an
> earthquake.
>
> I was at Santa Anita for the Northridge quake.
> Prior to that experience I was seriously
> considering a move to LA. After that quake, I
> didn\'t go back to California for 15 years. Imagine
> an earthquake during the BC. Pretty scary, which
> is why the subject is never brought up. But if you
> were taking bets on which track was most likely to
> experience an earthquake during the BC, SA would
> be a heavy favorite. And THINK ABOUT the
> repercussions.........................
>
> And people whine about a thunderstorm at
> Monmouth???????? A sloppy track is a walk in the
> park compared to an earthquake.
Dude, you\'re really serious?? How many MAJOR earthquakes have there been?? And if there is one, what are the chances that it will occur during the BC??
Gee, ya think Thunderstorms and slopfests occur just a bit more often than earthquakes??
How many horses have you seen break down during an earthquake?? How many have broken down over sloppy, slippery main tracks? That Monmouth track you say people are whining about?? Thats what happened there.
I\'ve lived here my entire life, in No Cal, and lived through the 1989 quake. I live less than 10 miles from the Cypress Structure in Oakland, the 2 level freeway that pancaked and killed many. I drove through that stretch hundreds of times. Not once did I even think about moving away. You prepare for the worst and hope it isn\'t necessary.
My favorite line is this one....
\"But if you were taking bets on which track was most likely to experience an earthquake during the BC, SA would be a heavy favorite.\"
Wow, that is really enlightening.
You sir, are one paranoid individual.
PDub-- You think you could have written that without the last 4 lines? Do they add anything?
P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I\'m not being facious BTW when I speak of an
> > earthquake.
> >
> > I was at Santa Anita for the Northridge quake.
> > Prior to that experience I was seriously
> > considering a move to LA. After that quake, I
> > didn\'t go back to California for 15 years.
> Imagine
> > an earthquake during the BC. Pretty scary,
> which
> > is why the subject is never brought up. But if
> you
> > were taking bets on which track was most likely
> to
> > experience an earthquake during the BC, SA
> would
> > be a heavy favorite. And THINK ABOUT the
> > repercussions.........................
> >
> > And people whine about a thunderstorm at
> > Monmouth???????? A sloppy track is a walk in
> the
> > park compared to an earthquake.
>
> Dude, you\'re really serious?? How many MAJOR
> earthquakes have there been?? And if there is one,
> what are the chances that it will occur during the
> BC??
>
> Gee, ya think Thunderstorms and slopfests occur
> just a bit more often than earthquakes??
>
> How many horses have you seen break down during an
> earthquake?? How many have broken down over
> sloppy, slippery main tracks? That Monmouth track
> you say people are whining about?? Thats what
> happened there.
>
> I\'ve lived here my entire life, in No Cal, and
> lived through the 1989 quake. I live less than 10
> miles from the Cypress Structure in Oakland, the 2
> level freeway that pancaked and killed many. I
> drove through that stretch hundreds of times. Not
> once did I even think about moving away. You
> prepare for the worst and hope it isn\'t necessary.
>
>
> My favorite line is this one....
>
> \"But if you were taking bets on which track was
> most likely to experience an earthquake during the
> BC, SA would be a heavy favorite.\"
>
> Wow, that is really enlightening.
>
> You sir, are one paranoid individual.
Nah, just covering all the bases. Chances of an earthquake on BC day are admittedly slim, but they are even slimmer with the current rotation of tracks.
Which leads me to a more important point: The only thing international about the BC is that foreign horses come here to run. We should be running the BC over there - and often. Otherwise, the BC is no more special than the Maryland Million.
However, hindsight is 20-20 and hindsight after an earthquake at the BC would go like what, P-Dub? You would be takin a small but unneccessary risk running the BC at SA permanently.
(Edited by author still trying to figure out how to type on a laptop)
Guys there was a minor Earthquake out there again this year when Zenyatta stormed down the stretch in the Classic.
How quickly you forget.
The Synthetic only surface of SA and the BC distorts the year-end title outcomes and runs the risk of ever decreasing East Coast participation. I mean why bother when they are probably faced with having to cut some of the purses anyway.
If one of the problems with having a rotation is those other host tracks want more of the money and the BC doesn\'t want to part with it because they need it.
Are people looking out for the best interests of the sport or themselves.......
good point about the stretch run earthquake on poly - still don\'t make a HOY imo . personally I\'d love to see the BC continue to make the rounds . . .
Dana666 Wrote:
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> I\'m more concerned with who\'ll win the 8th race tonight at Remington Park.
#7 Shonz is my play. I\'m going to hook him up to #6 Chin High in the late DD.
Good luck!
Having the BC in Europe is ridiculous at best.There\'s Dubai in March and the U.S.
in the fall.I\'d imagine they can take their pick.Dirt races remain DIRT and I\'m sure the Euros won\'t mind shipping over for the several million dollar grass events.It will continue to have its \"international\" feel and probably won\'t resign
itself to the lowly,pathetic feel of the maryland million.
Iron
Flighted Iron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having the BC in Europe is ridiculous at
> best.There\'s Dubai in March and the U.S.
> in the fall.I\'d imagine they can take their
> pick.Dirt races remain DIRT and I\'m sure the Euros
> won\'t mind shipping over for the several million
> dollar grass events.It will continue to have its
> \"international\" feel and probably won\'t resign
> itself to the lowly,pathetic feel of the maryland
> million.
>
> Iron
Why is a BC in Europe \"rediculous\"? I think it\'s rediculous to call the Breeders Cup a World Championship event if it does not include international sites.The BC was intended to be a rotating event. They had it in Canada. They could and shoud have it in Europe, Dubai, Japan and Hong Kong.They\'ve got to ship over here and play by our rules. We should be obliged to do the same.
Yeah sure! great! take the majority of horse owners/breeders in this country
for example.One of them comes across a real nice horse but unfortunately for him
and his connections the BC is being held at Germany,Japan,France,Australia,Hong
Kong and then Dubai(after their world championships in march).Then out of all
fairness of course the BC decides to bring it to the U.S and choose synth.
I\'d prefer not to bat this back and forth.let us just please agree to disagree.
On a side subject,please don\'t denigrate an entire states racing when trying to
make your point.
Iron
Flighted Iron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having the BC in Europe is ridiculous at
> best.There\'s Dubai in March and the U.S.
> in the fall.I\'d imagine they can take their
> pick.Dirt races remain DIRT and I\'m sure the Euros
> won\'t mind shipping over for the several million
> dollar grass events.It will continue to have its
> \"international\" feel and probably won\'t resign
> itself to the lowly,pathetic feel of the maryland
> million.
>
> Iron
Isn\'t it weird how the BC was run for a couple decades and all was fine with Euros showing their stuff in the turf races (and welcomed in the dirt races if they wanted), but now are we supposed to be \"fair\" by turning over ALL the races to the Euros by having them on turf or synth? Just where is the \"fair\" in that for the American dirt horses? I feel like I\'m Alice and have just fallen through a hole when I hear this stuff.
That 9th race was really tough - I would not have come up with the winner. It was a huge late double. Shonz tried at least. I thought he had a good shot too.
The #10 took all of the sting out of Shonz on the front, and when that one quit, the two stalkers pounced. They didn\'t beat Shonz by much, though.
Keep an eye on this Kenneth Nolen guy. Let\'s see if he sends any over to Oaklawn.
Re 9th race: my selection sucked patootie, but did I hear the announcer say that the winner, Aleric, won this race for the 3rd year in a row?? And at 12-1! Oy!
Couldn\'t agree more.I think Miff says it best when he refers to them as the \"empty
suits\".
MO:
Did the Euros invent this concept? If not, then they play the games on the American\'s court.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
http://thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/January/19/Santa-Anita-to-remove-Pro-Ride-may-return-to-dirt.aspx
I hadn\'t heard any more discussion on the subject, but I think this article leans toward the BC at SA forever.