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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: Rick B. on November 12, 2009, 09:14:24 AM

Title: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: Rick B. on November 12, 2009, 09:14:24 AM
Is Rachel\'s Sheet around for viewing? I looked in the Archives and didn\'t see it, but that doesn\'t mean anything -- I\'m terrible at looking for stuff.

I have this crazy idea that I want to compare RA\'s figs for 2009 to Zenyatta\'s. Worth it, or waste of time?
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: P-Dub on November 12, 2009, 09:21:19 AM
If you are willing to put the numbers in their proper context, not a waste of time.
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: nicely nicely on November 12, 2009, 10:25:31 AM
Sheets for R & Z
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: Rick B. on November 12, 2009, 10:48:25 AM
Thank you.
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: basket777 on November 12, 2009, 12:09:37 PM
wow that  makes it more clear why rachel did not run in the breeders cup.  its quite clear she loved the poly by the 4 point top after rest as a 2 year old.  however she had no chance in the breders cup so they opted the easy way out.

dont run.
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: HP on November 12, 2009, 12:42:51 PM
Basket - that\'s the best sheet read I\'ve ever seen.  I\'m assuming you\'re joking.  

HP
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: JimP on November 12, 2009, 01:46:45 PM
The RA sheet looks very similar to the Summer Bird sheet.
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: Dana666 on November 12, 2009, 03:46:06 PM
Kind of hard to vote for Z for HOY if you\'re going off that data alone!
If you want to debate on what they\'ve accomplished their entire careers, OK, Zenyatta has an awful lot going for her,and she really is one of the all-time greats (male or female) just in terms of consistency alone, but off those sheets, hard to make a strong case for Z this year, compared with Rachel.
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: TGJB on November 12, 2009, 03:53:46 PM
Entire career is a separate question from HOTY. Of course she\'s going to the Hall Of Fame based on her entire career.

Bill Finley wrote a polite piece saying Rachel should be HOTY for Thoroughbred Daily News, they got hate mail (seriously). Wait until those people see tommorrow\'s edition with what I wrote (TDN saw what I wrote here and asked me to turn it into a letter to the editor).
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: magicnight on November 12, 2009, 04:00:10 PM
You were not so polite as Finley?

Can you post it here after it runs in TDN?
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: TGJB on November 12, 2009, 04:04:52 PM
You mean can Paul post it here. Shoot him an email tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: magicnight on November 12, 2009, 04:13:47 PM
That was the royal \"you\". OK.
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: Silver Charm on November 13, 2009, 04:23:51 AM
Thanks for putting these up. Seeing both of these up next to other side-by-side pretty much tells you all you need to know.
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: HP on November 13, 2009, 08:13:50 AM
Too much...since when is HOTY is not decided by TG numbers?  No knock on TG, but this is not what they look at and everyone who posts here must be aware of that simple fact.  

HP
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: Silver Charm on November 13, 2009, 09:35:35 AM
The more I post here the more I harkin back to a comment attributable to the late great Judge Roy Bean,

\"We are going to give the man a fair trial and then we are going to hang him.\"


Where did I say this one deserved anything over the other one. How about when you put these two Sheets side-by-side you are looking at TWO of the All-time greats. How about when you put these two Sheets side-by-side the Synthetic numbers are slower than the dirt. May not mean the horse is slower just the performance figure is.

I feel pretty confident this is what meant but go ahead and hang me........
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: miff on November 13, 2009, 09:52:57 AM
I\'m sure that the voters do not look at numbers but there would seem to be a correlation between very fast consistent winning horses and Eclipse Awards.

Z and RA were both extremely consistent horses.RA ran more often, ran a few exceptionally fast races,shippped, destroyed her peers, hooked and beat top/fast 3yr colts and older horses.Z fans should check out where horses finished who dared to hook Rachel early.Check the facts/replays before you blow nonsense.

Last post for me on this, it would be a travesty and a fraud if RA is not sole HOTY.Z is fantastic but just had bad timing to run up against a 3 yr filly who is incomparable.

Mike
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: Rick B. on November 13, 2009, 09:59:28 AM
While we are playing armchair trainer / owner / whatever, and have the Sheets of these two tremendous athletes side by side, why not move ahead to the hypothetical Match Race That Will Never Happen.

(Or, Races, plural.)

Using TG, who wins a Match Race at:

* 9 panels on synthetic (fine, Pro-Ride at SA)?

* 9 panels on...fast dirt at...well, Rachel doesn\'t seem to really have a \"home court\" the way Zenyatta does, does she? She\'s raced at Churchill 6 times, use that track I guess.

* 1 1/16 miles on fast dirt at Oaklawn -- the only track over which both have raced.

Can I open a giant can of worms, or what? Happy Friday, everybody!
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: HP on November 13, 2009, 10:10:37 AM
Silver - if they hung you would it stop you from posting?  (Joking).

Miff - I\'d lay odds this is not your last post on this.  

It\'s just INEXHAUSTIBLE as a subject!  At this point I\'d rather see them give HOY to the horse that wins the next maiden claimer at Aqueduct.  

HP
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: Rick B. on November 13, 2009, 10:27:44 AM
HP -- you\'re complaining? I\'m baffled.
 
We aren\'t going to see something like this again for a loooong time -- that these two fantastic, accomplished female animals came along and did what they did in the SAME YEAR is mind-boggling.
 
Some of us are enthralled by this stuff. Please don\'t pee in our Post Toasties while it plays out.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: HP on November 13, 2009, 10:39:05 AM
Watching the two horses race is one thing.  Reading ENDLESS posts about this...repeating the same few points over and over again...over what is, in this case, an utterly meaningless award (the HOY will not have ANY impact on the value of either one of these horses - nor will it end the argument!).  

I suppose you\'re right.  If it floats your boat, sail away my friend!  

Enjoy...

HP
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: Dana666 on November 13, 2009, 11:52:46 AM
JB, will you post it here? I\'d like to read it.
Title: Re: Rachel's Sheet?
Post by: heatherk on November 13, 2009, 01:18:08 PM
I\'m curious, RA at oaklawn ran a -0 and the comment was \"never asked\". Zen, at Oakland ran a -1. What was the comment? Thanks in advance.