My girl and I had 4 cocktails at the Embassy cocktail hour, followed by a couple large hot sakes at Tokyo Wako. Needless to say, I have a nice little buzz going, it started at around 4pm this afternoon.
As for wagering, I hit the Marathon exacta and trifecta on Friday and not much else. Today, I was getting my eyes gouged until the Dirt Mile. Hit the winner and exacta. Genius that I am, I had a 4 horse tri box lined up using the 1-2-3 and was deciding between the 8 and 10. Do I really need to tell you which horse I used. Yeah, the 8. No worries, it only cost me around 3 grand.
Met Smalltimer and his family today, really nice people. Enjoyed talking with Bill and talking about the races.
So what about Zenyatta. Dana, you say you are one of her biggest fans on this board. Well then, welcome to the club. Smalltimer and I have touted this remarkable horse for quite awhile. You laid out a very convincing argument for HOY, something I have talked about for months. I\'ve said it before and I\'ll say it again. Rachel is fantastic. However, who has she defeated?? Mediocre 3 YOs in the Preakness, and I\'ll say it yet again, what has ANY horse from that race done since?? Then its the Haskell, and I\'ll say it again, she won over a speed favoring track over a sloppy surface she adores. Funny how NOBODY mentions this, yet some of you go on ad nauseum regarding Z and synthetic surfaces. I guess tracks and or surfaces that favor a horse only matter when we talk about Zenyatta. Then we have the Woodward, where she was life and death to hold off Macho Again. Oh yeah, she beat Bullsbay too. Do you really want to compare the combined 3 fields she defeated, with the horses Zenyatta just defeated today?? You want to split HOY?? Fine. JUst don\'t tell me Rachel deserves it alone. Not after today.
Zenyatta gave a performance for the ages today. That was a slow pace, she was dead last, and she still won. Speed figs don\'t do this tremendous champion justice. Enough with the talk about Rachel\'s speed figs, or any other horse. Bottom line is this....she runs fast enough to win. Thats all that matters. This speed figure fixation to say this horse is better than that one, give me a break. I know its the only way some of you can come to grips with the fact a horse, lets say Sunday Silence, can drill a horse 3 times out of 4 yet somehow be looked at as inferior. Or in this case, Zenyatta. Magic numbers at their finest. When they create a new Eclipse award....\" The Eclipse Award for fastest sheet figures goes to...\" to determine the best horse, then you can use it to compare. Until then, I\'ll stick to the best way to compare horses. Its called, lets see who gets to the wire first. Zenyatta has done it every time.
Now for my favorite subject. Lets see how many clowns on this forum want to bash Mike Smith today. Lets just get this out of the way...the next moron that wants to take a cheap shot at a Hall Of fame rider for allegedly \"always\" talking his horse wide should be forced to stand behind Quality Road the next time he acts up in the gate. I have given several examples of Smith taking horses up the rail, between horses, or cutting the corner to guide a horse to victory. These examples are always met with deafening silence. Its one thing to have an opinion, but to curl up and say nothing, to not even acknowledge that Smith indeed is a world class rider, when presented with evidence that he DOESN\"T ALWAYS take horses wide, these classless cowards would just rather just say nothing. Then after a little while, post more idiotic comments about taking horses wide. Well, today this guy is cashing a $300,000 check after giving the deserving HOY a world class ride. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, its better than the stuff that is currently in there, the stuff that makes some of you post ridiculously lame comments about \"going wide\".
Last thing, and this is for those of you that have cried for months about a synthetic BC. There were about 50,00 to 60,00 people at the track today that didn\'t care. Fantastic weather (or would you rather have another Monmouth slopfest?? George Washington would probably say no.), full fields, great finishes, favorites and longshots alike winning races, world\'s finest jockeys, this BC was fantastic.
I\'ve said my piece, and after all the crap I\'ve put up with all year from some of you guys regarding Zenyatta and Mikey, not many of you should blame me. I feel better now. Back to the Bay Area tomorrow, off to Hawaii Monday for a week.
I hope you guys enjoyed the racing this weekend, talk to you all later....
I know its the only way some of you can come to grips with the fact a horse, lets say Sunday Silence, can drill a horse 3 times out of 4 yet somehow be looked at as inferior.
These two haven\'t raced against each other.Bad analogy.Like it or not Z is slower
on the sheets.That isn\'t the reason Rachel deserves HOY.Rachel did more this year.
Rachel is a throwback champion.She embodies the true champion spirit in the sense
that anything is possible and any individual who has the talent and gumption can
be a champion.The unfortunate part for Z re:HOY is her connections didn\'t have
that spirit.
Z demonstrated yesterday that she truly is a great one!!She comes to run and it
doesn\'t matter who is in the field.Running home in approx. 23 for the final 1/4
was truly electrifying.I can only speak for myself that I feel a bit angry and
somewhat empty in the fact that these two never hooked each other.As a fan
I was deprived of an athletic endeavor for the ages.
They\'ve both achieved greatness.Rachel\'s story however inspires the romance a
touch more.
Congratulations again!
mjs
Flighted Iron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know its the only way some of you can come to
> grips with the fact a horse, lets say Sunday
> Silence, can drill a horse 3 times out of 4 yet
> somehow be looked at as inferior.
>
> These two haven\'t raced against each other.Bad
> analogy.
If you thought that was a bad analogy, then you completely miss my point. I\'m getting on a flight in a couple hours, so this will be it for awhile.
Sunday Silence was viewed as the inferior horse to Easy Goer, BASED ON SPEED FIGURES. This despite he won 3 out of 4 races when matched up against his rival. Zenyatta is viewed (by some) as inferior BASED ON SPEED FIGURES. This despite she has never been defeated.
>Like it or not Z is slower on the sheets.
Gee, that wouldn\'t have anything to do with turf/synthetics having slower numbers (a discussion for another time) than dirt. You sound like yet another person who is a slave to the almighty \"figure\". Races are run on the track, not on a piece of paper.
>That isn\'t the reason Rachel
> deserves HOY.Rachel did more this year.
The only thing she did more of this year was run in \"more\" races. Thats it.
> Rachel is a throwback champion.She embodies the
> true champion spirit in the sense
> that anything is possible and any individual who
> has the talent and gumption can
> be a champion.The unfortunate part for Z re:HOY is
> her connections didn\'t have
> that spirit.
You\'re kidding, right?? She just won a race populated by horses from all over the WORLD. Instead of running against the girls Friday, she took on the boys Saturday. A performance some are calling perhaps the greatest moment in Breeders\' Cup history (debatable, sure, but totally accurate). But her connections didn\'t have that \"spirit\"? Embodies the true champion, gumption, blah blah blah. So Zenyatta doesn\'t have the talent to be a champion?? Beating horses at the Classic distance against horses from all over the world is somehow less impressive than say, I don\'t know, beating up on a bunch of 3 YOs nobody has heard from again (BTW, how did Mine That Bird do yesterday, the one RA held off by a length). Or beating Summer Bird over a slopfest, speed favoring track? Or beating the vaunted MAcho Again (barely) and Bullsbay ( a horse that ran in the DIRT MILE for cripes sake). Movin on......
> Z demonstrated yesterday that she truly is a
> great one!!She comes to run and it
> doesn\'t matter who is in the field.Running home in
> approx. 23 for the final 1/4
> was truly electrifying.I can only speak for myself
> that I feel a bit angry and
> somewhat empty in the fact that these two never
> hooked each other.As a fan
> I was deprived of an athletic endeavor for the
> ages.
Agree with the first part. As for the latter, nobody told Rachel or her connections she couldn\'t come. Rachel has won over a synthetic before, her owner instead wanted to pout over Curlin last year. Very sporting. Yet Zenyatta\'s connections are somehow painted as the bad guy, the reason they never met. OK.
>
> They\'ve both achieved greatness.Rachel\'s story
> however inspires the romance a
> touch more.
Romance?? How? Because she beat 2nd rate 3 YOs, and 2nd rate older horses. If that inspires you, more power to you. I\'ll take the horse that has never been defeated, the one that took on any horse from the world that wanted to take her on. The one that delivered an electrifying stretch run that resonated with 60,000 fans on a glorious fall day at the Great Race Place. If you were at SAnta Anita Park yesterday, as I was fortunate enough to do, you witnessed history. Zenyatta OWNED that racetrack. The rousing cheers during the post parade, the cheers at her pre-race antics, and the thunderous roar as she stormed down the middle of the track. You want romance, that my friend, is romance.
We will beat this thing to death over the next few months. Rachel was the opening act, but Zenyatta is the closer.
Flighted Iron,
Agreed. I think you have to leave the state of California to win HOY. Shipping to Churchill and skipping the race doesn\'t count. Rachel raced all over the place, outside her division against colts and older males. On any DIRT track that a challenge was there, she met.
Zenyatta\'s connections waited in California, didn\'t beat a decent horse or race in a real race the entire year, then stepped up in the final race and proved that Zenyatta is a helluva horse. The analogy that I would make is the boxer that loses the first 2.5 minutes of a round but then flurries at the end to try to win the judges scorecards.
Rachel by a 2 to 1 margin for HOY.
It is a real shame there can\'t be a way for these two to race against each other in some kind of race somewhere. This way all these posts back and forth become meaningless and the winner is decided on the track (dirt track that is).
Jim
I am not really all that interested in Horse of the Year, but two obvious points...
One is, that was quite a field that Zenyatta beat yesterday. I know I didn\'t think she could do it.
Two is, in all of this hubbub I think you have to give these guys some credit for having a plan and seeing it through. Plenty of pressure there and they were able to execute. That\'s no small feat.
I think it\'s a really tough call...but I would hate to think this was more a referendum on synth and strategic decisions by owners than a HOY contest.
Maybe they should be co-winners...!
HP
When analyzed both horses were brilliantly managed from both a business and racing perspective. Until yesterday Zerella had NOT beaten a field of more than 8 (making yesterdays performance that much more impressive) and never (still) left the comfort of Southern Cal. and the synthetic tracks. Sheriffs and Moss were masterful in concluding they had nothing to lose by running yesterday and the decision they made (whether tactical or as good sportsmen)was good for the game. RA was equally well managed-after the Oaks Jackson took a shot at the Preakness (with minimal down side risk) and thereafter picked out strategic spots-not that much in the filly triple crown race she ran in or Haskell and the Woodward was sort of the real dirt equivalent of yesterday. The one race she avoided (as Jerry Bailey was quick to point out without acknowledging that Zenyatta\'s connections were equally tactical))was the Travers which I suggest was a far more dififcult race to win than the Woodward. Jackson should not be crticized for refusing to run yesterday over a surface that may or may not be a footnote in racing history-any more than Moss/Sheriffs should be crticized for never leaving California. One final note-RA\'s numbers-faster than Zenyatta\'s-were numbers she pretty much made on her own-she set or pressed the pace in all her races, was not reliant (for better or worse)on a set up from someone else to determine her \"fig\" and ground loss played very little or no role in the determination of her minus 3 and (if memeory serves me correctly) her minus 4. They are two brilliant horses we were privileged to witness in the same year but comparing them is a bit futile and unresolvable.
Hey Jimbo. How can you say Zen didn\'t beat a decent horse all year and be taken seriously. Did you not see Friday\'s Ladies Classic?
Buck,
I saw Friday\'s race. I don\'t want to redboard, but Life Is Sweet gave me the pick-4 that turned the two day affair into a \"losing\" weekend, but not the \"crushed\" weekend I had last year in the BC. Life is Sweet is a pretty good SYNTHETIC horse. She beat Music Note (a dirt only horse), Mushka (a turf horse), Cocoa Beach (an out of form horse) and Careless Jewel (a rank, uncontrollable horse in the race, and also likely a dirt horse).
Buck, the theme was the same all weekend, just as it was last year. Average synthetic and turf runners beat good dirt horses all weekend.
Any good handicapper that takes a step back and analyzes the weekend, emotions aside, should realize that this is a completely different game on the Pro-Ride and synthetic surfaces. And for most, that is not a good thing. Gushing over plastic performances is tough for me to do, and tough for a lot of traditional horse players to do. Listen to the comments of the Beyers, Crists, Serlings and other writers of this game. The theme is the same.
But Zenyatta did her thing yesterday. And I agree with those that say her one dirt performance was one of her best and it is too bad that the connections didn\'t try a more enterprising campaign before yesterday. Whoever wrote that we might have had 100,000 in the stands to see Zenyatta vs Rachel is right. Put those two in a Churchill Downs race, add in Careless Jewel, Music Note and couple of lesser mares and you have one helluva race. Oh well, I can only imagine what might have been.
But you know ... if handicappers didn\'t know SA was synthetic going in, they\'d not notice. They would just play it as they do any other track along the day - familiarize yourself with the track idiosyncracies.
Yes, I agree some horses don\'t run on synthetic as they do on dirt - but those horses probably don\'t run on turf, either.
We all know that the dirt tracks are nowhere near alike. Look at Churchill vs OakLawn vs Belmont vs Saratoga. Either are the good old turf courses all alike (CA vs Arlington vs Belmont vs Churchill) There are trainers that won\'t take their horses to certain dirt tracks, as they know their horse won\'t handle the track.
It\'s just another track to learn, if you want into those pools. And this weekend, this track played pretty darn predictably and stayed pretty much the same throughout the two days, don\'t you guys think so?
I\'d buy you a drink if I were in Hawaii! Great post. Read the latest on my thread, I go into more hidden points that won\'t get brought out in any number.
You could go back a long way and find my posts on Z. I knew as you did what we were looking at from early on. I have to stop myself now from posting b/c I can\'t take it anymore. If I have to keeping arguing her greatness, it really is a waste of time.
Dana,
I know you have been positive on her for a long time. Nice to see that a few of us Can wade through all of the absolute nonsense tossed around on this board. GLad yo enjoyed the weekend as much as I dd.
You\'re kidding, right?? She just won a race populated by horses from all over the WORLD. Instead of running against the girls Friday, she took on the boys Saturday. A performance some are calling perhaps the greatest moment in Breeders\' Cup history (debatable, sure, but totally accurate). But her connections didn\'t have that \"spirit\"? Embodies the true champion, gumption, blah blah blah. So Zenyatta doesn\'t have the talent to be a champion?? Beating horses at the Classic distance against horses from all over the world is somehow less impressive than say, I don\'t know, beating up on a bunch of 3 YOs nobody has heard from again (BTW, how did Mine That Bird do yesterday, the one RA held off by a length). Or beating Summer Bird over a slopfest, speed favoring track? Or beating the vaunted MAcho Again (barely) and Bullsbay ( a horse that ran in the DIRT MILE for cripes sake). Movin on......
Zenyatta is a champion.Older Female.Your opinion is from quoting others opnions
regarding her performance and then calling it debatable?The debate for me will
be over when I see the fig.Both horses beat everyone they faced this year.Rachel
still wins HOY hands down.
Great analogy.
Dude, would you get a friggin clue.
Its debatable as to whether or not that was the greatest moment in BC history.
Its not debatable that she is one of the all time greats.
Now you want to look at a figure to make a judgement?? Because as we all know, synthetics and dirt figures are easily comparable. Right.
This subject gets more ridiculous with each post from guys like this.
Do any of you even consider the caliber of competition that Rachel faced?? Its not even comparable, that field Zenyatta just dusted is much better than any horse Rachel\'s connections have even thought about racing against.
Do you act senseless on purpose, or for your sake are you just fooling around?
To quote Trevor......Un-Be-liev-able. Sheesh.
The people choose their champions and sometimes are rewarded.Rachel brought
that feeling everywhere she went.Super talent that left everything on all the
different tracks everywhere she went.Left senior citizens of the race community
jubilant everywhere she went.All citizens jubilant for that matter everywhere
she went.Rachel was racings champion this year everywhere she went.
Now you want to look at a figure to make a judgement?? Because as we all know, synthetics and dirt figures are easily comparable. Right.
In her case,yeah it may be since she does have that lone dirt fig.Giving her the
benefit of the doubt the neg 1 was no fluke,I\'d say it\'s reasonable to make
her subject to be 2 pts faster on dirt.She\'s still not faster than Rachel
and she\'s traveled once?A rested Rachel on that pace scenario yesterday on real
dirt and it\'s \"Katy Bar The Door\".
We\'ll just agree to disagree. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
One thing we can agree on, that was one great day of racing.
Lost in the Zenyatta hoopla is the tremendous accomplishments of both Goldikova and Conduit. Winning back to back BC is a monumental achievement. My seats were between the 1/8 and 1/16 pole, a great vantage point to watch the stretch runs really heat up. Conduit is a beast, watching him give his all over a game Precious Passion was thrilling stuff. Goldikova, working out a trip from the far outside, gave another scintillating performance.
Met up with Smalltimer after the Classic. we were standing right by the gift shop where the horses come back from the track. Watched the horses and jockeys walk by, signing programs (the jockeys, not the horses...but I wouldn\'t be surprised if Z could do that too) and such. And then comes along this big, beautiful mare named Zenyatta. I was literally 2 feet from her as she walked back to the barn, and I swear it didn\'t even look like she had just been in a race. What a magnificent looking animal. Something I will never forget and that alone made the trip worthwhile. I will remember this BC for a very long time.
We all have our opinions on HOY, synthetics, etc... Lets all agree on one thing....this past weekend was great theater and thrilling racing. I\'m still trying to come down off of that remarkable high I got on Saturday.
This subject gets more ridiculous with each post from guys like this.
Do any of you even consider the caliber of competition that Rachel faced?? Its not even comparable, that field Zenyatta just dusted is much better than any horse Rachel\'s connections have even thought about racing against.
It sounds as if you\'re genuinely pissed off here.I don\'t mean at me even though
you called me senseless.I meant your words.Your asking the board for me to be
ridiculous and then your accusing the board of being senseless that WE cannot
see how hard Z\'s had it.I think Rachels had it harder and done more.
Z\'s a great one no doubt.She\'s just not this years HOY.
P-Dub,
As a longtime board lurker, intermittent TG purchaser, and an unabashed East Coaster – I was bred, born, raised, and still live, less than ten miles from Saratoga Race Course, and as a baby, I once spent an afternoon on my father\'s knee watching Mickey Mantle hit the last home run he ever hit in the old Yankee Stadium – it is with some hesitation that I get involved in this discussion, but I step out of the shadows tonight to say my piece.
For openers, despite my deep East Coast roots, I long ago conceded defeat in the Easy Goer-Sunday Silence debate. I quite simply believe that by virtue of the superior athleticism that allowed him to run faster around turns, Sunday Silence was the better horse. Not to nitpick, but among the numerous horseplayers I know, my vote for Sunday Silence is met with universal derision, and not once have any of the Goer fans used speed figures to justify their love. I fully realize that the plural of anecdote is not data, but to a man, and in a few cases, to a woman, every single person I know who argues in favor of the Phipps horse insist that the track got him beat at Churchill, and that Day got him beat in Baltimore and again in Hallandale. Speed figures never enter their equations.
Speaking of riders, I have long appreciated your ardent defense of Mike Smith. Many summers ago, on a late August day, my best friend and I were leaving Saratoga as the horses loaded into the gate for the last race of the day. We decided to duck down to the fence, down by the finish line, to watch the race; it was a gorgeous, pleasantly warm, sun-splashed afternoon, probably not unlike the afternoon you had yesterday in Arcadia.
As the horses headed into the first turn, some trouble developed. Not far from where we stood, a rider was suddenly ejected from his mount and thrown many feet up in the air. We watched in horror as the rider flipped, flew through the air, and, after what seemed like minutes, landed in the grassy hedge with a loud thud. I turned to my best friend and said – I still remember it – "holy shit, that guy's dead."
We just stood there, waiting to see what was going to happen to that rider who'd been pitched into the air. Eventually, they got him into an ambulance and drove him away.
I'll never forget the sight, and the sound, of that rider getting tossed from his mount and landing with a sickening sound. It shook me to my core and made me question my participation in this game: for awhile that day, I feared that the rider in question had given his life for my entertainment, and I didn't feel good about that.
That rider, of course, was Mike Smith.
I realize that jockeys make mistakes, errors in judgment that sometimes cost us our wagered money, and I don't maintain that they are above criticism, but after what I saw that afternoon at Saratoga in August of 1998, I am loathe to complain about their efforts. As far as I am concerned, after what I saw that long-ago afternoon, Mike Smith has a lifetime pass to go as wide as he wants, whenever he wants, but he doesn't, and he certainly didn't in yesterday's Classic. He was one of the lucky ones; he lived to walk again, to ride again. Many others have fallen, or been thrown, and not had his luck. Still, seeing him atop Zenyatta with his arms raised to the heavens after the Classic yesterday put a smile on my face.
&&&
I initially regarded synthetic racing with suspicion, and then ambivalence. There seems something unnatural about it. The plastics are meant to be a kinder, gentler version of dirt courses, but they play nothing like dirt; in general, they seem to negate the kind of advantage Sunday Silence employed so beautifully, namely, the ability to use sustained high speed to win the highest caliber races. And so it all seems confusing, and sometimes ugly; in the initial synthetic edition of the Pacific Classic, if I remember correctly, the winner required something on the order of two minutes and seven seconds to complete the mile and a quarter. I remember scoffing at this with my East Coast buddies, and California racing, a once-feared breeding ground of lightning fast raiders who'd occasionally ship into town to mercilessly plunder our beloved New York stakes, seemed to recede into irrelevancy. Not that any of you out there cared, nor should you have, but we simply stopped paying attention.
But yesterday, several of us gathered 'round my living room and pooled our money together and we bet with both hands all afternoon. And there was not a complaint to be heard. No bitching about how it was fake racing, no whining about how the odds were stacked against our East Coast dirt horses. It was what it was: it was something we racing fans don't get nearly enough of, namely, a full day of competitive, interesting, full-field wagering opportunities. Yes, we factored the synthetic angle in, but we knew what we were getting. We knew the New York horses would hate it, we knew the races would play differently than they do here at home, and we adjusted our handicapping accordingly. We didn't feel like we had no clue as to what was going on; we felt like we were handicapping, and betting, on horse racing. We even used TG to make a score: we had the late pick three and pick four, and while I realize this was not classic TG handicapping, the horse that really made the pay-offs on those bets had number power in what we thought was an absolutely abysmal race for a putative Breeder's Cup race. To us, it looked like a "chaos race", and in that case, if you're playing picks, and using a lot of horses around a couple of singles in other races, you gotta throw in a horse with a number, right? (Note: excuse the redboarding; for the record, we didn't make a lot of money on the day as the Juvey and Sprint winners wiped out a lot of our action.)
And the unanimous opinion in my living room was this: it was a hell of a lot better, and a hell of a lot more fun, than betting on a Breeder's Cup card from an Eastern track mired in the middle of a dismal late fall all-day driving rain storm, a la Monmouth 2007. (Not that I bet that one: I was busy that day, dealing with the fallout from a surgical procedure on my wife that went horribly awry.)
The Breeder's Cup powers-that-be were mocked and derided – and for all I know, they are a bunch of half-wits lucky to have avoided pissing all over their own shoes yesterday afternoon, it beats me – for having their signature event out there on the plastic two years in a row, but all I can say is this: from the comfort of my couch, it was nice to not have to think about the on-track weather. There's something to be said for conducting a day of racing under sunny skies and moderate temperatures.
&&&
As for Horse of the Year, well, honestly, I don't care all that much. A tie between the two fillies would be fine with me.
Yeah, for all I care, Noble's Promise is Horse of the Year; he was the lynchpin to a day of wagering, a few weeks ago, that gave this unexpectedly widowed father of three very young children the option of staying home with them until the middle one starts school next fall. He\'s my new favorite horse, and Willie Martinez is my new favorite jockey, What can I say? With some forethought and some assistance from useful connections within one's circle of family and friends, it is possible to live very well, thank you, in upstate New York, for not a lot of money.
Perhaps that's too cynical a view, but so be it. After what I've been through, frankly, I'm entitled.
If I had a vote – and of course I don't, and I never will – up until about six thirty Eastern time yesterday, I would have voted for Rachel without even thinking about it. She won over seven different racetracks. Day One to Day Three Sixty Five, she had the more ambitious campaign. Never has a three year old filly put up this kind of a season. Never.
But I gotta admit, Zenyatta's performance yesterday got me thinking. Yeah, it was one race. But what a race she ran. Clearly, synth or no, a better field than anything Rachel faced this year, and she won it easily, under trying circumstances. Smith said he still hasn't gotten to the bottom of her, and I'd tend to believe him. My guess is that the voting is dominated by Kentucky types who wouldn't vote for Zenyatta no matter what, but regardless, she ran a tremendous race yesterday, one for the ages, and capped off a tremendous day of racing.
Best wishes for an excellent week in Hawaii, and a tip of the cap for an excellent day for the West Coast.
PapaChach,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on a wide range of topics. I read it 3 times, and was thoroughly captivated each time.
Best wishes to you and your family, and thank you for the kind words. I get so worked up sometimes, that I just can\'t help myself. You have given me a new perspective on things and I can\'t thank you enough for that. Thanks for bringing an East Coast perspective to a West Coast guy.
Right now, as I finish writing this, I am watching the horses load into the gate for the Classic. Its my first time seeing it on the HD. I am leaving for Hawaii in about 8 hours, and all I can think about is the Breeders\' Cup. I have attended many memorable events, this one ranks right at the top. Aloha for now.
Papa-- that\'s a great post in every respect, one of the very best ever to grace this board. Bonus points for \"putative\". You will probably be surprised which section of the post I respond to.
One rainy night in my teens I was sitting in the lower right field seats at Yankee Stadium along with about 4,000 other people with nothing else to do that night-- the Yankees stunk. The night before they had a bigger crowd-- Denny McClain was pitching and Mantle was tied with Foxx for lifetime homers. McClain intentionally grooved one, Mantle hit it out, that was it for the public\'s interest in the Yanks. (I have to point out this was a long time before I became a Met fan, which happened when McCarver started announcing the games in the early 80\'s-- it was nice to hear someone talk about the game, not restaurants. I grew up a Brave fan-- first mitt \"Eddie Mathews\").
Anyway, I\'m out there in right field in the drizzle with my glove, and with one (1) other living human-- a Puerto Rican kid a little older than me. He\'s further towards the bullpen in right center, I\'m closer to the line. Sure enough, Mantle hits one, and it lands dead between us.It could have bounced left or right, but it went the other kid\'s way, he got the ball.
So an inning later these guys in suits come out and offer him an autographed ball in exchange for the one he caught, and he says f--k no, and goes home with it. Somewhere there\'s a middle-aged Puerto Rican guy with the last ball Mickey Mantle hit for a home run, and nobody believes him.
TGJB,
Thanks.
Don\'t want to get too off-topic here, but I will ask my dad to clarify the details - I could swear he said it was an afternoon game, but it\'s been a long time since he told me the story, Perhaps I saw the homer the day before, or maybe one of Mantle\'s last milestone homers.
At the time (most of \'67 or 68: I was born up here in \'66 and we came back up in late \'68 I believe) we lived off Commonwealth Ave in the Bronx. The folks took me to Yankee games all the time. Apparently I (and my mother) slept through most of a doubleheader against the BoSox on a brutally cold day. My dad says the second game went 16 or 17 innings. Again, w/about 4,000 people in the stands.
Almost all of my good friends are rabid Mets fans, and they will occasionally tell me they \"can\'t believe\" I\'m a Yankee fan. I suppose this is some sort of backhanded compliment, but obviously, given the above my Yankee roots run deep!
Certainly posible my memory was wrong and that it was an afternoon game. Also could have been rain delayed and dark because of the clouds.
Yes, a night game. About 16,000 saw the Red Sox beat the Yankees. Yaz homered too. (Via the NYT archive). Reminds me that the hubbub that year was whether or not the AL batting champ would hit 300 (hence the focus on Yaz\'s average). Yaz finished at .301 to pick up a bargain basement batting crown. \'68 was also the year of Gibson\'s 1.12 ERA. They lowered the mound after this year.
Red Sox Beat Yanks, 4-3;; MANTLE SMASHES HOME RUN NO. 536 Yastrzemski Also Connects and Gets Three Hits to Raise Average to .306
By LEONARD KOPPETT
September 21, 1968, Saturday
Page 38, 471 words
If tight competition for worthwhile stakes, glamorous stars performing their special ties and exciting late-game situations make up good baseball entertainment, the crowd of 15,737 at Yankee Stadium last night got its money\'s worth while watching the Boston Red Sox defeat the New York Yankees, 4-3.
To quote whoever it was, a lot of those 15,737 came disguised as empty seats.
I\'m pretty sure back then the AL numbers were \"tickets sold\" while the NL counted the turnstile spins. So, yeah, no doubt there were a lot of empty seats in that 17K.
But notice how I got through that post without making any age-related cracks? Figure if Zen is in the running for HOY I might be able to have a crack at late-inning sainthood, so, I\'m on my best behavior.
When I said teens I meant in months.
That\'s one heck of a variant!
Why were there no rules available to deal with Queally striking the 3rd over twenty times down the stretch?