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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: MO on April 06, 2002, 06:31:41 AM

Title: Ilinois Derby
Post by: MO on April 06, 2002, 06:31:41 AM
This is a very interesting race. Lots of talk about inside speed bias, War Emblem as the lone speed, blah, blah blah.
I think very few of the connections in this race even have a clue. Look at the musical jockeys. Sterling off Secret Command to ride War Emblem? Jaurez off War Emblem to ride Fonz\'s? Chavez off and Walls back on Changein the weather who must carry equal weight with Repent? Blinkers on Peekskill?
Now look at those with a clue. One Tuff Fox off a month rest, 2 monster works at Sportsmans, gets 10 pounds from Repent, the rail and a very hot Eddie Martin for a very good trainer in R Dutrow. Horse also drops 5 lbs off a very impressive FG win. Repent, who will win the Kentucky Derby, is the only other horse with a shot to win here. Post 10 sucks, but he is better than these, has Bailey and won\'t be worse than 2nd. Box Repent and One Tuff Fox. Bet OTF to win at 5-1 or higher. Safe trip.
Mark
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby
Post by: nunzio on April 06, 2002, 08:45:15 AM
Mark,

Repent will win the Derby ?  I just don\'t see it.  If you held my feet to the fire, I\'d
pick the FL Derby winner Harlans Holiday, but I will reserve judgement for another month.

Nunzio

PS  I like Fonz\'s & War Emblem at SPT.
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby
Post by: MO on April 06, 2002, 11:46:16 AM
No secret I\'ve been a Repent backer for some time now. Hasn\'t taken a backward step yet. HH has run faster, but I think HH has run too fast now while Repent has room to run faster. Its entirely possible that Repent runs a 2 today and a 1 or a 0 in the Ky Derby. He loves CD. Has Bailey. Hopefully, he\'ll have no respect on May 4.
Regarding War Emblem, aren\'t you concerned about a forthcoming bounce?
Fonz\'s is certainly fast enough to fit here, but why didn\'t Solis come for the ride? He\'s not riding anything special at SA unless you think Lukas can win the SA Derby. Just a thought.
Mark
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby
Post by: nunzio on April 06, 2002, 02:50:19 PM
Mark,

Didn\'t catch the jock switch on Fonz\'s, great call, I would have probably dutched the two of them besides the exacta box.
Given the price on War Emblem over Fonz,
I just bet WE.  I didn\'t think he\'d regress,
we won effortlessly last time.

Thanks again for that jock call, I totally missed it.

Nunzio
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby
Post by: MO on April 06, 2002, 03:22:00 PM
Congrats. I guess you weren\'t worried about a bounce. Since Dutrow scratched, I used Repent on top of the 75-1 shot that ran 4th. Had Repent won, I\'d have cashed the superfecta.
Repent did not chase me off him for Kentucky, though. He was slow to change leads but the post and the lone speed worked against him today. There won\'t be any loose horses at CD. Price will be OK now that he got beat at a minor track.
Mark
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby - repent
Post by: fastspeed on April 07, 2002, 06:49:55 PM
Mark,

yes, but \"price will be OK\" is not necessarily what you want to be saying about your horse after his last derby prep.  I know you\'ve been touting him for a while and he has many good credentials (his pattern was great, CD form, dual qualifier, right running style, solid/classy foundation at 2...) but you have to admit that, even after changing leads, he didn\'t close like a prospective derby winner should.  Is he totally off my list ? probably not at 12/1-14/1  or so, but it wouldn\'t take much from someone next week-end to relegate repent to hopeful at best (though he his ahead of came home for me right now).
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby - repent
Post by: MO on April 07, 2002, 09:19:12 PM
IMHO, I think that that all things considered, 10 pound weight difference, ground saving trip for War Emblem, wide trip for Repent, speed favoring track; Repent\'s figure might be a lot closer to War Emblem\'s for that race. He did have 4 1/2 on the third (fastest)horse at the wire and he was coming in off paired 3\'s with no work over the track. I think his race was better than it looked. Now he goes back to his favorite track and gets 4 weeks rest. Came home actually surprised me and I now give him more respect.
Mark
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby - repent
Post by: rail on April 07, 2002, 11:16:02 PM
War Emblem clearly benefitted from his uncontested lead; I\'ve seen old ladies with walkers go faster.

Repent continues to unimpress me. He lost ground in the stretch. IT IS possible to close there. Those behind the pacesetter do not hit a brick wall when they round the turn. His inherent problems of running wide and not changing leads on cue are just annoying at this point.

Bailey over D\'Amico; HA!
And the difference is?
Oh that\'s right, we get sweeter odds on the opposition.

I hope this doesn\'t turn into another Tejano Run campaign!

I think it is a shame Take Charge Lady has not been given the opportunity to try 9 furlongs.

The final time of the SA Derby gave me no reason to respect Came Home in the KD.

Bring on The WOOD!

Title: Re: Ilinois Derby - repent
Post by: fastspeed on April 08, 2002, 07:18:55 AM
I totally forgot about the 10 pounds - I guess you\'re right, they probably ran a similar number.  If he moved forward from the 3, he would still be dangerous.  Still, apart from that move on the turn (good sign as you need that at CD) he could have been more impressive visually in the stretch.  Have to respect Came Home purely on class and guts, but for me he showed he\'s going to pull himself near the front in the derby - he doesn\'t scare me for the win, though could hang on for 3rd or so.  very interested in saarland this week-end - is he the stretch plodder he looked at times last year, or was that first run a sign he\'s got an earlier move in him.  would love to see him move up a little to a winning number.
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby - repent
Post by: kev on April 08, 2002, 08:14:47 AM
Didnt Repent have a bo/bi in one of his past few races? It looked like me as if he was trying to do it again, and thats not a good sign. Not saying he wont run  well in the Derby but he might not be around for much longer.
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby - Repent
Post by: rail on April 08, 2002, 09:34:49 AM
I do think he is in danger of being overrun.  It might be wise to give him some time off until late summer.

He obviously has ability so it would be a waste to ruin him now.

Title: Re: Ilinois Derby - repent
Post by: MO on April 08, 2002, 11:02:53 AM
At least he\'s not running zeros yet, so maybe he\'ll be aound till Breeders Cup if they give him a break after Triple Crown.
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby - repent
Post by: MO on April 08, 2002, 11:04:02 AM
Saarland is also interesting.
Title: Re: Ilinois Derby - repent
Post by: rail on April 08, 2002, 11:07:47 AM
Saarland looks the best. Repent is out. I guess he\'ll get that rest now; too bad it had to happen this way.

Title: Who will Take Charge?
Post by: rail on April 08, 2002, 11:12:48 AM
An interesting tidbit on Take Charge Lady:

\"It\'s tempting to run her in the Kentucky Derby because she\'s that good,\" McPeek said. \"I firmly believe she could win the race. But it\'s probably a smarter move to run her in the Kentucky Oaks.\"

Let\'s see if he has to eat his words in the Derby. As said before, she should have been given the opportunity at 9 furlongs.

Title: Re: Who will Take Charge?
Post by: HP on April 08, 2002, 01:25:16 PM
Another example of trainer-speak. Obviously he doesn\'t believe it that firmly, or he\'d run her! Everybody wants to win the Derby. If you think you can win, you go! Plenty go and they know they have no shot and they just want to hang out and act like what Hunter Thompson called \'a bunch of atavistic freaks with their shoes covered in vomit (sic).\'

McPeek wants to have it both ways. If he wins the Oaks he can say he could\'ve won the Derby too (I believe you Ken!). These guys are almost as good as the politicians. I firmly close my ears to all trainer comments re: the Derby...now. What the hell do you expect them to say? \"My horse has no shot but the owner has a suite at the Hilton and wants to meet some broads.\" Not bloody likely. HP
Title: Re: Who will Take Charge?
Post by: TGJB on April 08, 2002, 01:50:43 PM
Cranky because the baby kept you up last night?

Title: Re: Who will Take Charge?
Post by: nunzio on April 08, 2002, 02:20:51 PM
McPeek can win the Derby with Harlans Holiday and the Oaks with Take Charge Lady.  There isn\'t a trainer in America who wouldn\'t trade with him right now.  

Nunzio
Title: Better ask ...
Post by: rail on April 08, 2002, 03:29:11 PM
SHUG!!!

Title: Re: Who will Take Charge?
Post by: rail on April 08, 2002, 04:03:13 PM
HP, I hope yours was being offered with HUMOR as mine was.

Title: Re: Who will Take Charge?
Post by: HP on April 09, 2002, 06:05:51 AM
Of course it\'s humor! Whaddya mean cranky JB? You\'ll know when I\'m cranky. At least my happiness is not based on what I can see sitting under a staircase. You can have your sordid life!

I agree with what Nunzio said, but that\'s not what McPeek is saying, is it? I don\'t blame them for talking, but if you pay too much attention you\'re going to get thrown off.

Before - \"He looks great. Cleaned out his feed tub.\"

After - \"He just didn\'t handle the track.\"

Multiply this by a million at the Derby. That\'s why we love TG! HP