Bettor\'s worst nightmare....
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2008/December/17/Bankruptcy-could-cost-bettors-nearly-500000.aspx
Glad to see Doc still in action after all these years, but too bad about the $.
More shocking detail here
http://www.drf.com/news/article/100599.html
Hard to believe tracks take months to pay off. How would a hub get the money to pay off a big pick 6 score????
Something fishy about that.
First we have that shyster Madoff now this, Is Nothing Sacred?
it\'s hard to agrue against whats being said here imo -
\" First we have that shyster Madoff now this, Is Nothing Sacred ? \" . . .
are you kidding me ? sounds like these rebate shop guys should give full restitution .
This is reminiscent to me of the story in the Andrew Beyer book about the guy who won the prize at the Harvey Pack Bad Beat Banquet. The guy was an American journalist in the DR and he hits the P6 equivalent at the track on a huge carryover day. Next thing you know, the horseplayers start rioting because they believe a race was fixed and that rioting spills over and starts the revolution that the guy is down there covering for one of the U.S. networks in the first place. Needless to say, they do not pay out on his bet.
Am sure I got some of this wrong -- but -- the point is -- has the U.S. fallen so low we are now no different than the Dominican Republic?
Also, for all those moronic poker players who think poker bad beats are worse than horseracing bad beats -- I have never seen a poker player get beaten out of a six digit score because the house went bankrupt -- has anybody else? I still cannot believe that the Horseracing/handicapping bible (yes, the DRF) had the nerve to print an idiotic column suggesting that poker bad beats were worse than horseracing bad beats (I think the theory went that poker players were smarter than horseplayers, so the poker bad beats were real whereas horseracing bad beats are in the imagination of the horseplayer).
Man, I couldn\'t imagine. I go crazy when I lose a $200 voucher, but to lose a couple grand like that has to hurt.
SoCalMan2 Wrote:
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> Also, for all those moronic poker players who
> think poker bad beats are worse than horseracing
> bad beats -- I have never seen a poker player get
> beaten out of a six digit score because the house
> went bankrupt -- has anybody else? I still cannot
> believe that the Horseracing/handicapping bible
> (yes, the DRF) had the nerve to print an idiotic
> column suggesting that poker bad beats were worse
> than horseracing bad beats (I think the theory
> went that poker players were smarter than
> horseplayers, so the poker bad beats were real
> whereas horseracing bad beats are in the
> imagination of the horseplayer).
I work in a poker room. To say these guys are smarter than horse players is laughable. I have never seen a bigger group of arrogant, self absorbed, condescending a-holes anyplace. Period.
Most people don\'t even know what a bad beat is. They assume that because a 2 outer on the river made someone\'s hand, its a bad beat. They don\'t take into account the fact they were behind pre flop, went ahead only because they hit the flop, then lost when the other guy git the river. Also, taking a bad beat isn\'t that bad at all. Over time, these guys will miss way more often than they hit....and you will get the money back and then some.
Completely different at the track. Your horse gets taken down, gets stuck in traffic, etc... You\'re not only losing your money, but you won\'t neceassarily get a chance to get it back. You may have waited weeks for a horse to run back, or the stars align for a race you have pegged only to have misfortune strike. When will the next chance come?? In cards, there is the next hand. In racing, that next race may not come for awhile.
And to suggest poker takes more brains than handicapping....let\'s not even go there.
This isn\'t my worse beat, it\'s THE worst beat ever. I can\'t imagine anyone can ever relate a story that\'s worse, poker,sports, horses, etc.. I actually happened to see this transpire as I was watching the SA races on TVG, having bought a small ticket with my betting partner. On some of this, I\'m going from memory but I\'ve still got the PPs and an old story from the DRF so I\'m sure the pertinent facts are correct.
On March 3, 2004 an off-track bettor made a small investment in the SA Pick 6. The pool started with a near $2 million carry-over and swelled to $6 million when they closed betting. The player was live going into the last leg with 2 horses after hitting winners of
$7.60
$20.00
$5.20
$4.20
$24.40
His two horses were 9/5 horse Memo House which represented about a $200,000 score and 75-1 shot Flying Kegan a no-hope trained by John Cortez and ridden by Kevin Krigger. Should \'Kegan win, unlikely as it was, the bettor would hold the only ticket which would be worth $4.4 million.
The chart comments say it much better than I ever could.
Flying Kegan chased the pace outside, bid 4 wide into lane,took the lead past 1/8, and broke down with a clear lead at 1/16 pole.
If that were me, I\'d never bet another race.
I was at Santa Anita that day and when that horse surged i thought \"oh my god 4.4 to one person\".
The horse was going to win for sure and just pulled up lame right at the end. The first thought that went thru my mind instantly was that this is the worst beat anyone has ever taken in horse racing history.
There could theoretically be \'worse\' beats depending on your situation in life. If the 4.4 million dollar guy was already rich, the beat isn\'t as bad as a guy who is dead broke with a bookie\'s leg breaker coming to get him tomorrow and he suffers a beat that might have saved his kneecaps, but just for the AMOUNT, i can\'t imagine there could be a worse beat. It\'s going to take a very long time to surpass this particular beat.
Did Memo House win? If so, that would have removed some of the sting.
P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I work in a poker room. To say these guys are
> smarter than horse players is laughable. I have
> never seen a bigger group of arrogant, self
> absorbed, condescending a-holes anyplace. Period.
>
> Most people don\'t even know what a bad beat is.
> They assume that because a 2 outer on the river
> made someone\'s hand, its a bad beat. They don\'t
> take into account the fact they were behind pre
> flop, went ahead only because they hit the flop,
> then lost when the other guy git the river. Also,
> taking a bad beat isn\'t that bad at all. Over
> time, these guys will miss way more often than
> they hit....and you will get the money back and
> then some.
>
> Completely different at the track. Your horse gets
> taken down, gets stuck in traffic, etc... You\'re
> not only losing your money, but you won\'t
> neceassarily get a chance to get it back. You may
> have waited weeks for a horse to run back, or the
> stars align for a race you have pegged only to
> have misfortune strike. When will the next chance
> come?? In cards, there is the next hand. In
> racing, that next race may not come for awhile.
>
> And to suggest poker takes more brains than
> handicapping....let\'s not even go there.
Here is the link to the article I was talking about. Read it and see if you can believe it was in a horseracing newspaper. Also, read it with the pick six bad beat story others have already added in this string, and then watchout for your blood pressure.
http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=70505&subs=0&arc=1
Jim:
My memory isn\'t what it used to be, but I think that last race was won by a horse named Houston Astro, a trainee of David Bernstein that paid like $40 or so. The PK6 player in question ended up with two 5 of 6\'s instead of $4.4mm.
I could write a very long post on the many ridiculous comments this guy made. (I\'ll be nice and not call him a name that fits)
This article is littered with complete and utter nonsense and to think that the editor of the DRF actually let a long article like this get published. Ugh.
Especially ridiculous is the example of the horse with the 6 length lead jumping the rail and losing.
I\'m off to work with that stupid article in my mind. Thanks a lot So Cal.
P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could write a very long post on the many
> ridiculous comments this guy made. (I\'ll be nice
> and not call him a name that fits)
>
> This article is littered with complete and utter
> nonsense and to think that the editor of the DRF
> actually let a long article like this get
> published. Ugh.
>
> Especially ridiculous is the example of the horse
> with the 6 length lead jumping the rail and
> losing.
>
> I\'m off to work with that stupid article in my
> mind. Thanks a lot So Cal.
Hey P-Dub!
Did not mean to ruin your holidays. All I can say is that when I read that article, my blood pressure went through the roof and all I could think of was where was the outrage...why wouldn\'t Crist himself publicly pick this moron apart. the article is years old and it still sticks in my craw. So for what it is worth, at least it seems, there are two of us who think the DRF committed journalistic gross negligence (and I do not make that allegation likely as I come from a family of journalists including the DRF\'s single most famous writer (now retired)).
SCM2
The difference between bad beats in poker and bad beats in horse racing is mostly a matter of frequency. Typically, you play way more hands per year than you bet races.
I have sustained more bad beats in poker in a single long card session than I have ever had to experience at any racing meet in my life.
Of course the amount of money involved impacts your perception of how bad the beat was. Few poker players are ever in a position to win a six figure pot or tournament but wind up getting burned by \"one or two outer on the river\".
Many horse players find themselves in that position because of the popularity of multi-race bets. Small wagers can put you in that position (something that can\'t happen in poker).
However, if you are serious poker player and sometimes put up 10K to enter a tournament or put 100K on the table to play in the biggest cash games, there is no comparison between poker and horse racing. Poker players have to deal with much more frequent bad beats because of the volume of action.
Cartman,
The problem is that many poker players really don\'t know what a \"bad beat\" is. They just think that being ahead to the river and losing is a bad beat. Or playing a hand where you were way behind pre flop, then you get ahead on the flop only to lose on the river is a \"bad beat\". I hear players mutter this all night long.
The term \"bad beat\" is tossed around like horse players toss around the word \"bounce\". Often times, neither use of the word is correct.
The very fact that there are more hands and more chances for \"beats\", either in your favor or against you, is one reason why they are a far bigger deal in racing. In the long run (over a large sampling) all these things pretty much even out.
The other reason, as I\'ve said here before, is that things are far more leveraged in this game. here are not a whole lot of situations in poker where a beat can cost you getting 20-1, with exotics that happens pretty frequently here.
Combine those two elements and the difference between going 5/10 and 10/5 in photos over a month makes a HUGE difference in your bottom line. Bigger than your handicapping, in the short run.
what on earth???? How can any beat in poker be bad? we are talking about math here. Any bad beat you want to name in poker is SUPPOSED to happen at some point. Without it being capable of happening, it would not even be possible to have the game of poker.
A two outer on the river is basically supposed to come in almost 5% of the time. Well, you know what, when it comes in against you, that sucks but it is nothing compared to what happens in horseracing.
You are going to tell the guy who lost a million dollars when his horse was cruising to the lead before breaking his leg just before the wire that his bad beat is comparable to anything that has ever happened at any poker table????? How about the guys who lost bets at Saratoga when their horse won but the placing judges misread the saddle cloth and gave the winnings to the wrong bettors? Now that is a bad beat -- that is not supposed to happen at all, but it happens to horseplayers. How about people who bet on the horse on preakness day when a lunatic from the crowd jumped onto the track to punch the horse? I can go on if need be, but these all trounce being beaten by a legitimate 43-1 shot coming in which is the worst possible bad beat a poker player can name. I could go on. I have played an enormous amount of poker and no bad beat i have suffered there can come even remotely close to some of the bad beats i have had at the races.
I cannot stand when a person yowls because they got all in before the flop with aces and their aces got cracked. Well, you know what, aces get cracked every single day and aces are supposed to get cracked from time to time. To consider that a bad beat is simply ludicrous -- it is called poker and sometimes the bear gets you and sometimes you get the bear.
Ugh, this just makes my blood boil.
Absolutely correct JB.
The better poker players will overcome bad beats simply because they are better players and will take the lesser players money in the long run, often times during the same session.
There are only so many plays that a good horse player will make, making those beats infinitely worse. There really is no comparison.
SoCalMan2 Wrote:
> I cannot stand when a person yowls because they
> got all in before the flop with aces and their
> aces got cracked. Well, you know what, aces get
> cracked every single day and aces are supposed to
> get cracked from time to time. To consider that a
> bad beat is simply ludicrous -- it is called poker
> and sometimes the bear gets you and sometimes you
> get the bear.
>
> Ugh, this just makes my blood boil.
Pocket Aces win less than half the time.
SC,
We\'ve beaten this topic to death. I agree with you 100%. I see over 200 hands a day at various limits, and true bad beats are rare. Most people don\'t really know what one is. And to the good players, it doesn\'t matter. They understand variance, keep their cool when it happens, and continue to play their game and take the other people\'s money.
JB\'s previous post is spot on.