Take your pick: Zenyatta, Goldikova, Raven\'s Pass. I don\'t think Curlin should even be considered. His 3 Grade I wins in this country were in races filled with GIII and Alw horses ( and he was under pressure to win the last two) and the fields in Dubai were not much better. He didn\'t handle the surface in the Classic? Funny, he handled it for a 1 1/8, he had the lead at that point, he made the wide sweep that other winners made on the day.... the difference in the BC was he didn\'t have a bunch of tomato cans following him...even Tiago, another who supposedly does his best on \"dirt\" beat him. Remember last year he couldn\'t get by Rags, lost in the Haskill, and won the BC in the slop when only one other horse ran a lick on that track.
hyow wi9ll this make me a better handicapper?
Tough Call on those three or four horses for top spot . As I weigh triple crown races heavily in my decision each year for Horse of the Year Honors - and even though he was eased in the Belmont , my own personal pick would be Big Brown ...
Curlin should win and here\'s why. Because voters can actually do horse racing a service by not punishing the horse who kept racing and rewarding the horse who ducked the better competition. There was no reason at all for Zenyatta to not be in the classic, so i dont think you want to reward her because HE lost. Curlin took on the best the world had to offer and Zenyatta did not.
Please.
As Josephus stated, Curlin beat up on 2nd rate competition. He was all out to beat a 40-1 shot, beat the same GR2/Allowance horses a few times. The World Cup was hardly as stellar as it usually is. The races he won were GR 1 in name only, find me just one GR1 caliber horse he defeated. When he did face top competiton he lost, twice.
Zenyatta faced the best distaffers in the country. Home and away, dirt and synthetic. She not only won, she dominated her competition. She beat last year\'s BC and division champion twice, not to mention last year\'s BC runnerup. Both were soundly trounced. Zenyatta displayed her style and talent over and over. She was clearly the star of BC weekend. Ducked the better competition?? What comnpetition did Curlin face?? The 2 best fields he faced....he LOST.
Favorite Trick was HOY in 1997 defeating Skip Away for the award. Skip Away had a much better year than Curlin did this year. Yet, he still didn\'t win HOY. Older horss have an advantage in HOY voting. Most years they run in the biggest and most prestigious races. Here\'s the thing....you have to win them to earn the championship. Curlin hasn\'t, except when he faced mediocre horses.
I admire Mr. Jackson for running Curlin in the Classic. However, you don\'t give away the biggest prize in the game because of a sporting gesture. If you look at Curlin\'s races objectively, instead of fawning all over him because he wasn\'t retired, you hardly see HOY performances. You see a very talented horse, beating the same decent horses over and over, who clearly wasn\'t as good as he was the previous year.
At this point of her career, there was no reason for Zenyatta to race in the Classic. Next year, perhaps they can find a spot to race against the boys. Perhaps the Big Cap, maybe next year\'s Classic. But an undefeated star who dominated her competition?? Its called Horse Of The Year.
If Zenyatta was so good and head and shoulders better than Curlin (as you seem to be suggesting) than the connections were a dope to not run her for 5 million on a track she relished.
Curlin made 5 million dollars and beat \'nobody\'? If Curlin isn\'t the best horse in the world, than who is? Is there a better horse who earned less money? Curlin earned almost 2 million more than everyone else.
Zenyatta is great, but i just feel you can\'t award a horse who didn\'t race vs the best. Horse of the year = MVP and Curlin is the MVP.
As a horse racing society we want our great mares to race the males, We don\'t want our owners to shy away from all time great competition.
if the owners of a great female want to win horse of the year, they need to run against the best and not enter a lesser race and hope the actual best horse loses. You don\'t vote for horse of the year who backs into the title. If Curlin wins the BC Classic he\'s HOY in a landslide. There\'s not even a debate, which means this.....if there\'s no debate at all should he win, there shouldn\'t even be a debate for him losing by 4 lenghts (or whatever the margin happens to be).
Curlin is an east coast/midwest based animal and Zenyatta is a SO Cal based runner, are you saying Curlin should be punished because the BC happened to be in California this year? You take this race out of California and Curlin wins the BC Classic for fun and wins HOY in a landslide.
Voting against Curlin is saying that the 4 lengths he lost by in the Classic is enough to take a unanimous HOY title away from him.
The 64 dollar question is do 4 lengths make a horse go from unanimous winner to a loser in HOY voting. If you say Zenyatta is HOY, than you are saying yes, 4 lengths make a horse go from a unanimous lock HOY to a loser.
imallin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Zenyatta was so good and head and shoulders
> better than Curlin (as you seem to be suggesting)
> than the connections were a dope to not run her
> for 5 million on a track she relished.
Never said that or suggested it.
> Curlin made 5 million dollars and beat \'nobody\'?
Pretty much. I asked anyone to name a top horse he beat. Still waiting. I can name you top horses he lost to.
> If Curlin isn\'t the best horse in the world, than
> who is?
Zarkava ran against males, and looked pretty impressive doing it. A little race called the Prix de l\'Arc de Triomphe. Perhaps you\'ve heard of it.
>Is there a better horse who earned less
> money? Curlin earned almost 2 million more than
> everyone else.
Its not a money competition. Purses get jacked up all the time.
> Zenyatta is great, but i just feel you can\'t award
> a horse who didn\'t race vs the best. Horse of the
> year = MVP and Curlin is the MVP.
Again, see 2 YOs that have won HOY. Its happened before. They didn\'t race against the best either. And when Curlin faced top competiton this year, he LOST. What don\'t you understand about that. Listening to you, you would have thought he won every race, beaten every horse. He didn\'t. He beat up on a very mediocre handicap division.
> As a horse racing society we want our great mares
> to race the males, We don\'t want our owners to shy
> away from all time great competition.
All time great competition?? You think the handicap horses running this year make up all time great status?? You have got to be kidding.
>
> if the owners of a great female want to win horse
> of the year, they need to run against the best and
> not enter a lesser race and hope the actual best
> horse loses. You don\'t vote for horse of the year
> who backs into the title. If Curlin wins the BC
> Classic he\'s HOY in a landslide.
Probably so, but not a landslide. Zenyatta would have had her supporters.
> There\'s not even a debate,
Wrong. There would have been a debate. Having TVG slobber all overthemselves for Curlin doesnt mean that people can\'t objectively evaluate his races.
> which means this.....if there\'s no
> debate at all should he win, there shouldn\'t even
> be a debate for him losing by 4 lenghts (or
> whatever the margin happens to be).
You\'re suggesting that if he lost by more, it wouldn\'t have mattered? Unbelievable. If we\'re not going to count the biggest race of the year, then why don\'t we just vote for the award in August?? Some of your logic is downright baffling.
> Curlin is an east coast/midwest based animal and
> Zenyatta is a SO Cal based runner, are you saying
> Curlin should be punished because the BC happened
> to be in California this year? You take this race
> out of California and Curlin wins the BC Classic
> for fun and wins HOY in a landslide.
Yeah, and if my Aunt had a set she would be my uncle. Whats your point? We can talk hypotheticals all day, but lets stick to the facts. There is absolutely no evidence he would win the Classic for fun on another track. Venues have decided many races. If the Belmont Stakes were run at Santa Anita, Sunday Silence wins the Triple Crown. But it isn\'t, and he didn\'t. Just your opinion, which you\'re certainly entitled to.
> Voting against Curlin is saying that the 4 lengths
> he lost by in the Classic is enough to take a
> unanimous HOY title away from him.
Again, pure speculation on your part (the unanimous part). And yes, getting beaten on racing\'s Championship Day will do that to a horse. You think he\'s the first horse to lose a BC race and also lose a division championship??
>
> The 64 dollar question is do 4 lengths make a
> horse go from unanimous winner to a loser in HOY
> voting. If you say Zenyatta is HOY, than you are
> saying yes, 4 lengths make a horse go from a
> unanimous lock HOY to a loser.
Get off this beaten lengths fixation. You\'re saying we get to pick and choose which races count and which ones don\'t? You\'re actually suggesting BC races don\'t count?? To answer your question, yes. Losing by 4 lengths in the biggest race of the year and finishing off the board matter. And again, he was a lock (in your opinion) because racing focused on the reigning HOY. But again, if you objectively analyzed his performances this year, hw wasn\'t as impressive as last year. When he faced top competition, he lost. Thats not opinion, its fact.
It could be argued that Zarkava was the best horse in the world this year. On turf, untouchable by the best horses on the planet. Why didn\'t she come over and destroy any horse in the turf races? She would embarrass Curlin in any turf race. She proved to be untouchable on one particular surface. Her connections goal all year was to win the Arc, and she did. They achieved what they wanted.
Zenyatta, unbeaten on Cushion, Polytrack, Pro Ride and Regular dirt. You have to admit, she\'s a pretty nice runner considering she\'s unbeaten on 4 different surfaces. At no point did Jerry Moss or John Shireffs plan to run Zenyatta other than the Ladies Classic. they achieved what they wanted, plus, I spoke with John Shireffs about 2 minutes before the race, and it\'s likely she will run again.
I\'m not a particular fan of Curlin or his connections, yet I give them credit for running him on a surface that he was untested on. I certainly couldn\'t downgrade him because he got beat by 3 other horses. The fact that Curlin lost by 4 lengths and had 3 horses run right past him is what some people will remember.
Few people would argue that Curlin was the best horse in the country on dirt. Yet, Curlin couldn\'t beat either Raven\'s Pass or Henrythenavigator on Pro-Ride, and he couldn\'t touch either one of them on turf. So who is the best horse?
Maybe those lamebrains need to expand the HOY honors to a couple more categories. I.E., Best Dirt Horse, Best Synthetic Horse, etc. That way, Asmussen won\'t have to whine if someone other than Curlin is named HOY.
As a horseracing fan, I couldn\'t complain if either Curlin, Zenyatta were named horse of the year. But, I\'m just like you, I just have an opinion, not a vote, so who really cares what you or I think?
You guys make Curlin sound like a slow rat, he\'s obviously not.I was not a fan and went after him a few times because of his lack of \"quick\". He is probably going to win the award but both Zenyatta and Zarkava are very worthy.
Re Zenyatta, she beat up mostly on the weak Cali fillies/mares, so you have to have the same criticism as Curlins company. She caught Ginger Punch, Hysterical Lady(fastest on dirt imo) both over the top and NFG on synths and she was on her home court.I think Zenyatta could have won the classic and is a legit beast but with a vulnerable running style.
Mike
miff,
As always, no subject is complete until you weigh in on it.
No doubt Ginger Punch was \"over the top\" when she was coming off a 10 week layoff at Oaklawn and got DRILLED by 8 lengths in the Apple Blossom by Zenyatta.
The fact that Zenyatta beat Hystericalady twice without difficulty proves Zenyatta\'s vulnerable running style considering Hysterical sat on a easy pace in the Lady Secret and Zenyatta went past her like she was standing still.
The sad thing in the filly and mare divisions, all the small fields they all faced were in the area of 7-8 horses. Hysterical Lady only faced 48 horses all year long in 8 outs, Ginger only faced 52 horses in 8 starts and Zenyatta faced 43 in 7 starts. The list of really outstanding mares is pretty short when some of the great ones fall of the track. But, would it have made any difference if Pure Clan, Proud Spell, etc had shown up? Not one bit, they were running for second money....
Small,
Hystertical Lady does not run as fast on synths as dirt, her races on that surface are tosses.Ginger Punch did not run nearly her best at Oaklawn.Zenyatta was life and death more than once this year, from memory and did not DRILL lesser on a occasion or two this year.You forgot to name the \"runners\" she beat in Cali, 5-6 times.Zenyatta is a terrific horse who deserves all her props but has a vulnerable running style, imo.
You missed my point that those beating up on Curlins company lines also have to look at Zenyatta.On the other hand Zarkava beat the best on a tougher french grass circuit and won the Arc.
Mike
Mike, could it be we agree on something? If I had a vote, it would go to Zarkava.
Bob
Mike,
I wasn\'t implying he\'s a \"slow rat\". I just wanted to reply to Imallin, who apparently thinks Curlin should be awarded HOY simply because he\'s Curlin and others aren\'t.
The difference between Zenyatta and Curlin is this (and BTW, to say Ginger Punch was over the top back in April is hard to believe): When Curlin faced top competition, he wasn\'t up to the task. One could blame the surface, he lost on turf and Pro-Ride, but the fact remains he lost. The horses he defeated, can you say he beat 1 good field this year?? Maybe the Clark, thats it. I addressed the other points already and won\'t repeat them.
Her running style historically is a disadvantage, but doesn\'t that make her all the more impressive? Pace, traffic, nothing has kept her from being undefeated. Many closers come flying home to win by a neck, head, or some other small margin. She draws off to win by lengths for the most part.
I have great respect for Curlin and his connections. But this is 2008,not 2007. Lets judge him on this year, not his fantastic 2007 when he was a well deserved HOY. He shouldn\'t get bonus points because he remained in training.
Paul,
Did not say Ginger was over the top at Oak, said she did not run near her best.In the BC I thought GP and HL would be no factor and bet accordingly.
Honest,I could give a rats a-- about who wins what award.Curlin ran as fast this year as last on several occasions. Was his last few races \"off steroids\"?, was he worn down from his previous running/shipping?. If the BC was on dirt, I think we would know, but it\'s tough to swallow that two 3yr old turf milers ran him over.
I would not be surprised if Zenyatta gets it, she is one of three possible deserving winners,notwithstanding that she beat up on the Sisters Of The Poor for most of the year.
Mike
I should probably stay out of this, but Curlin ran only in GIs,won all 5 of them he raced in on dirt, only losses came on other surfaces his connections were brave enough to try him on. He ran all over the country (and the world). The Oaklawn race was the only one where Zenyatta didn\'t have the huge advantage of being at home, and racing over a surface many others don\'t like-- and there were lots of GIs at Bel and Sar that she could have run in instead of beating up punching bags. She gets credit for Oaklawn, but as far as I\'m concerned this is no contest.
Your argument that he beat \'nobody\' is laughable. He ran in the best and highest pursed races. The horses that were in those races were the best in the world. If there was a horse who is equal or better than Curlin, he OR SHE would have been in those races earning grade 1 status and making boatloads of money.
When Curlin faced top competition, he wasn\'t up to the task. One could blame the surface, he lost on turf and Pro-Ride, but the fact remains he lost.
If I took the time to research all the past HOY honorees it would be a who\'s
who of horses who lost during their HOY campaign.I\'ll just choose Secretariat.
3rd in the Wood,2nd in the Woodward and Whitney.
I also acknowledge the Man\'o War as top comp.Drf chart for Curlin has him banging the gate at the start.Smashing into metal and then running a super second
is credit to him.Pro-ride? I believe Albarado regarding Curlin\'s action during
the BC classic.
I choose not to be overly critical of Curlin\'s victories because the fact
remains he won and received big figs by most of the top handicappers in the
world.By the same token I do not dismiss Zenyatta.Wow!! I sure hope they
run her next season.
With respect,
mjs
What is the criteria for selecting a horse of the year? I think what racing fans want is the horse who crosses the finish line first in exciting fashion against grade one competition. I expect the voters would use that template rather than some embellished reasoning.
I think the voting will reflect that also.
She had her chance and they ducked the competition.
This is no Favorite Trick Year.
JB,
Actually, Curlin won only 4 Grade 1\'s this year. Dubai, Foster, Woodward and the Jockey Club. His first win in Dubai was a Hcp race, but non-Graded.
In his 5 graded races, he only beat 38 horses total.
In \'02 when Azeri won HOY she won 8 of 9 Grade 1\'s including the BC Distaff.
In \'03 she won the Eclipse while winning 2 Grade 1\'s and 1 Grade 2 race, then finished 3rd in the Lady Secret. All the Graded races she won in So. California. The interesting thing is the runner-up, Sightseek won 4 of 8 Grade 1\'s and in her last start as the 3/5 favortie in the BC Distaff she finished 4th by 10 1/2 lengths.
Zenyatta won 4 Grade 1\'s and 3 Grade 2\'s with all So Cal wins except the Apple Blossom. A little similar to Azeri who wasn\'t punished because she didn\'t venture outside So Cal.
There are a 3 horses worthy of Horse of the Year Award. The voting could be very close because you never know what criteria the voters are using.
I\'m not gonna hold my breath regardless of which horse wins.
All this discussion is meaningless to me, I couldn\'t care less about any of these awards. Basket777 hit the nail on the head: How does this make me a better handicapper? I\'m not wagering on who is going to win what award, therefore I care not. - Ace
Hopefully the voters see it this way.
Can\'t believe what I am reading on this thread. A poly specialist, who ran outside California on dirt, exactly once gets horse of the year over a horse who won all his dirt races (yes, we are still a dirt track country!!!) and who lost two races on alternate surfaces while travelling all over the country and to Dubai.
Gimme a break. The vote will not be that close.
Zenyatta is the best female polycrap horse on the planet. Maybe they ought to have a category for that.
I didn\'t realize that horse of the year was dirt award. Didn\'t a grass horse win sometime back. I think it was Kotashan(sp?).
Few people would argue that Curlin was the best horse in the country on dirt.
since we\'re adding and(/)or deleting things,I would substitute country and send \"world on dirt\".
.Since you already have Curlin\'s concession on the turf,where
were they in Dubai? I admire Stonestreet stables for training this horse through
this year.Their committments to testing their athlete on ANY surface.I feel very
certain Mr jackson is a reasonable man whomever wins...
With Respect,
mjs
Ronwar,
The concession of turf is most certain.I remember the French champion filly
All Along winning the International at 3(i think).Kotashaan was HOY in 1993.Horse
Racing is a sport(some say the King of sports).I thought it quite commendable
for the sport for the racing of Curlin on any natural surface.I\"m curious to see
in 2010 if any foreign invaders try the Classic?
With Respect,
mjs
TonyP. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the criteria for selecting a horse of the
> year? I think what racing fans want is the horse
> who crosses the finish line first in exciting
> fashion against grade one competition. I expect
> the voters would use that template rather than
> some embellished reasoning.
Sounds like Zenyatta.
jimbo66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hopefully the voters see it this way.
>
> Can\'t believe what I am reading on this thread. A
> poly specialist, who ran outside California on
> dirt, exactly once gets horse of the year over a
> horse who won all his dirt races (yes, we are
> still a dirt track country!!!) and who lost two
> races on alternate surfaces while travelling all
> over the country and to Dubai.
>
.
> Gimme a break. The vote will not be that close.
>
> Zenyatta is the best female polycrap horse on the
> planet. Maybe they ought to have a category for
> that.
Jimbo,
Its ok to prefer Curlin in this discussion. However, your petty little snipes at discrediting the talents and accomplishments of Zenyatta make you sound like a spoiled little boy. She\'s more than a synthetic surface specialist. Not acknowledging this is asinine, not to mention its just plain idiotic.
It\'s somewhat a popularity contest with some voters. There have been years when a number of voters disregarded the obvious.This year it\'s conceivable that it could be close and I doubt the winner will be unanimous.
Pdub-- you continue characterizing people as asinine and idiotic and you won\'t be here much longer. Grow the f--k up.
JB,
I\'ll send you a private.
Wrong. Public act, public apology.
Jimbo,
Apologies for calling your opinions asinine. I was out of line.
P-Dub,
No problem. Perhaps my reference to \"polycrap\" is a bit whiney, as I don\'t like synthetic racing.
However, I stand by Curlin being a clear horse of the year, for me. As a \"figure player\" I don\'t buy that he was not as good this year. He was ridden conservatively (wide) by his jockey often this year, and spotted weight, so the finishes were closer than last year. However, if you look at his sheet, he was about as fast this year (on dirt).
As to other point on this thread about a turf horse winning \"horse of the year\". Certainly it happened but the difference between that and a poly horse winning is that Turf is viewed as a separate category. There are \"turf champions\" and Breeders Cup races for turf specialists. Right now, dirt and synthetic are viewed in one grouping. Frankly, one way to remedy the problem would be to have a category (or categories) for synthetic horses. Mixing them, as we do now, doesn\'t make a lot of sense. Our triple Crown is on dirt, however all the west coast preps are on synthetic. So, the west coast horses may or may not be able to run well in the triple crown. The \"dirt\" breeders cup races will be run on either dirt or synthetic depending on the host site, and certain horses will be compromised. It is more than a handicapping issue. Heck, some people figured out the handicapping issue at the breeders cup this year (not this stubborn poster). However, the \"fairness\" issue of horses having to move from surface to surface for major races like the triple crown and breeders cup isn\'t fair.
We can\'t prove this, but does anybody REALLY think that Henry the Navigator and Raven\'s Pass beat Curlin if the Breeders Cup was at a dirt site. Heck, I know this won\'t sit well with our west coast people here and I can\'t prove this next statement, but I would bet a whole lot of money that Hysterical Lady would beat Zenyatta on a dirt track. Not sure if they are both retiring and I hope not, as I would hope the Zenyatta owners would be as sporting as the Curlin owners and actually run Zenyatta out of state next year. (yeah, I know she ran at Oaklawn once). But even if she does run, I doubt she shows up at Saratoga or some other great track. The BC races will be on synthetic again and she doesn\'t need to leave California.
Anyway, I guess went on enough.
Jimbo,
JB straightened me out, as well he should have. Thanks to both of you.
JB made a good point about races on the East Coast. I can\'t really blame them for keeping her \"local\", since the BC was local and she was undefeated.
However, she has nothing left to prove in California. If she is as great as we all hope she is, she needs to take her act on the road. Belmont, Saratoga, etc.. have huge races for older distaffers. She needs to show up and run.
I hate synthetics too. But they\'re here, apparently to stay. So I tolerate them and deal with whatever circumstances come with them.
Appreciate your thoughts.
\"Grow the f--k up.\"
I don\'t have a dog in this fight, but I have to comment that I find that phraseology to be very interesting. I\'m sure that a book could be written on that single 4 word phrase. LOL.
I\'m a New Yorker. We use the F word as a modifier. For actual cursing, we get extremely creative.
Jimbo,
Synthetic horses \"unfairly\" challenged to run on dirt? Didn\'t Street Sense prep at Kee? I think Hard Spun did too. Col. John didn\'t run well at CD but he came off training on Pro-Ride to win the Travers and didn\'t a number of of synthetic horses this past season explode on dirt? If we have seen horses go from syn to dirt, why can\'t we expect GOOD or GREAT horses go from dirt to syn?
On your other points: I would take Zenyata and Cocoa Beach over Hystericalady at the 1&1/8, and yes I would take the euros over Curlin THIS YEAR ( granted, that is based on hindsight) and I think he will be vulnerable if he goes to Japan. My point on Curlin at the top of this thread, is that he was at his best last year in the Preakness and has been lucky that no GI or GII horses, except for the turf race at Bel. and the Classic, which he lost, have faced him this year.
If we are going to talk about \"fairness\", I think most the of the dirt races in this country are speed biased, especially on sealed and sloppy tracks and again, for the most part the winner is the one who de-accelerates least. I think turf is the most \"natural\" surface and the synthetic at SA (what we\'ve seen of it so far) is next; I\'d put dirt, third.
In the grand scheme of things does it really matter who gets the title horse of the year? I\'ve been following racing since for a while and I couldn\'t tell you who was and wasn\'t \"horse of the year.\" Why does it really matter? No matter who gets it...we will all remember the candidates and the impressive races they all ran over time.
Josephus,
If you really think Henry the Navigator and Raven\'s Pass would beat Curlin on dirt, god bless. I can only say that I wish I knew you, as I would like to play cards with you and book some of your horse action. It wouldn\'t be close.
As for the preps you talk about. STreet Sense ran like a dog on poly in his Keenland prep, which is why he was 9-2 and not 2-1 in the DErby. Hard Spun was a different story, as many breeding experts said he would have been a better turf horse than dirt, so no surprise he ran well on poly.
It is certainly debatable, but I don\'t think we have seen as many horses as you think \"explode\" when they moved from synthetic to dirt. I won\'t rehash old ground, but if you search the threads, you will see posts about the relative \"compacted\" synthetic figures, and thus the fastest synthetic horses not actually getting figures near the fastest dirt horses. So, the \"move up\", in some cases, can be related to the scale. (or at least that is a theory that a few people have and our host hasn\'t categorically disagreed - at least yet).
I accept your point on turf races, as I would agree that as a general statement, turf courses have less bias than dirt tracks. But as I said, turf and dirt are distinctly different categories of races in the U.S.. Synthetic is \"grouped in\" with dirt, which to me is mixing apples and oranges. What happens when one of the three triple crown races is on poly?
Jimbo66,
What happens when one of the three triple crown races is on poly?
Preposterous at best.(I hope you were not being rhetorical:)
With Respect,
mjs
It\'s a topic to discuss. It doesn\'t \"matter\" more than anything else, but it\'s fun to see watch the races and debate who is best.
I\'d say Curlin. He traveled the world, took on all comers and beat, well, most of them. You don\'t have to go undefeated to be Horse of the Year. And while I know we\'re heading for a synthetic future, I still don\'t hold the Classic loss against Curlin as strongly as I would if it was on real dirt.
Zenyatta is a great horse, but stayed in her backyard. She\'d have had to go beyond what she did to prove she was best horse in the world. Best filly or mare on synthetic surfaces, yes, by far. I\'d give Curlin the big honor though.
Jim,
I\'d give Henry virtually no shot at beating Curlin on dirt. Raven might be bred better for dirt though. it was 13-1 vs 4-5 on synth - might have been 26-1 and 3-5 on dirt. even with Curlin clearly the more likely winner, I might have taken Raven at 26-1.
and Curlin would get my vote for horse of the year. he was simply awesome in Dubai, and ran big figures in three of the biggest grade 1 dirt races in the US. I believe the close margins in those races were a factor of trip and weight, not talent. you\'re comparing the best dirt horse in the world to the best synth filly in the US. best dirt horse in the world wins in my book.
Michael,
We are in complete agreement then.
I wish I would have been in complete agreement with your great call on Raven\'s Pass in the BC Classic!!!! Instead, I somehow wound up on a backing up CAsino Drive, and ironically enough, a few tickets on Go Between, who was knocked out of the race by Casino Drive stopping like he was shot. An ironic ending to a miserable (and stubborn) handicapping BC for me.......
Now THAT quote is a CLASSIC and should be printed and framed like one of those plaques you see advertised in airline magazines. You know the ones I\'m talking about. They focus on one word and it\'s definition like \"Teamwork\", for example.
Jerry,
If it\'s OK with with you I\'m going to make one that I can take with me on road trips. It would clear up a lot of things with my bandmates.......LOL
Jimbo-- while I\'m not claiming I fully understand the synth thing yet, if you look at the BC sheets when we put them up (later today, probably), you will see some big figures were run over Pro-Ride, and some big ones in previous races over poly (notably by the 3yo you bet in the Sprint). I don\'t think it\'s a question of scale.
Unrelated-- they announced yesterday that the 4 Aidan O\'Brien BC horses had run with lasix, but that he had not told the stewards, so it was not announced. Penalty? $2,500. Total, not each.
Jimbo,
Smile when you say that first paragraph.
It is unfortunate that some people cannot state an opinion or respond to an opinion on this board without making a personal comment.
Josephus,
Sorry, no insult intended.
Anybody would have made out well booking my bets on FRiday and Saturday in the Breeders Cup. The Midnight Lute - Fatal Bullet exacta was my only cash and it wasn\'t big.......
No s--t.
Curlin? Zenyatta? Commentator?
Who is the most accomplished thoroughbred who ran in the US in 2008?
Good Night Shirt won the Colonial Cup Steeplechase in Camden, South Carolina on
Sunday, closing out a season in which he was undefeated in five starts... all
Grade 1 events.
richiebee Wrote:
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>> Good Night Shirt won the Colonial Cup Steeplechase
> in Camden, South Carolina on
> Sunday, closing out a season in which he was
> undefeated in five starts... all
> Grade 1 events.
Nice try...Ain\'t happening..
Curlin\'s connections might be looking at one more race before the end of the year (when he is scheduled to be retired) to try and erase the bad Breeders cup memory.
Is there a cutoff date for races that are used to determine Horse of the year ? Is it the Calendar year or is it any performance up to the Eclipse awards?