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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: MonmouthGuy on July 16, 2008, 01:44:41 PM

Title: Virginia Derby
Post by: MonmouthGuy on July 16, 2008, 01:44:41 PM
PPs are out for the Virginia Derby and upon first look through I was surprised to see that Your Round is 15-1 on the ML.  If you throw out his dirt effort in the Ohio Derby, he has run decent figures in his two races at TP on the poly and on the soggy turf in the Colonial Turf Cup.  He was still running at the end despite being 4-5 wide in each and, getting 4 lbs from Sailor\'s Cap on Saturday, if he gets a better trip, he could be live at a big price.   Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: TGJB on July 16, 2008, 01:46:07 PM
Virginia Derby will be ROTW.
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: Ian Meyers on July 16, 2008, 02:07:19 PM
Thought he was live last time and played him pretty good at a gazillion to one.  Second would have been a big score.
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: MonmouthGuy on July 16, 2008, 04:43:52 PM
thanks.
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: jbelfior on July 17, 2008, 05:56:10 AM
This race will, IMO, be quite different than the one they ran in June.

They ran that race in a bog and I\'m thinking that the ones that closed that day benefitted from a tiring course. The winner (Sailor\'s Cap) absolutely loved it and rock hard firm will bring him back from the level he ran in June although he can still certainly win it. At 7-5, however, no thanks.

I\'ll toss the one run closers in here such as Your Round, El Sultry Sun, and Court Vision. Looking at Jerry\'s race shape, I agree with the potential early fractions which will be a crawl on a rock hard turf.

Gio Ponti will have to be up close early (Gomez too smart to make one run in here) and that may compromise his late kick, especially if his breeding catches up to him.


I\'ll do a tri box with the 3 who figure to be up in front early ; one of them will be a bomb!



Good Luck,
Joe B.
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: Michael D. on July 17, 2008, 08:44:30 AM
the favorites look best, but if the turf comes up firm, El Sultry Sun will be the key at the ml of 10-1. looking at race shapes, Prado should be able to get to the rail and save much of the ground. distance is a concern, but the half to Solar Splendor and Sultry Song has a decent shot at getting the 10f. a 1w/1w run in the \'4\' range will be competitive.
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: Lost Cause on July 18, 2008, 06:38:05 AM
Can\'t get by Sailor\'s Cap in this race...I tried all angles but it doesnt look like a lot of these want the distance as much as Sailor..Hoping I can get at least 2/1 due to the presence of Gio Ponti..If not i\'ll pass the race..I agree with the ROTW analysis, this one looks like he is going to be special.
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: miff on July 18, 2008, 07:29:34 AM
\"Court Visions big effort in the Wood took alot out of him\"



Hee hee, that\'s a good one, needed a laugh.



Mike
Title: Re: Virginia Derby - Miff
Post by: jimbo66 on July 18, 2008, 10:14:55 AM
Miff,

Just don\'t follow up this post with another swipe at Tale of Ekati, or we\'ll have problems here...  :)
Title: Re: Virginia Derby - Miff
Post by: miff on July 18, 2008, 10:37:05 AM
Hi Jim,

No shot at TOE,at least he chased a fast pace hard and outgamed 2yr old champ War Pass.Court Vision had the poster perfect fast pace \"set up\" and did not run over them in a patheticly slow last eighth.If that race knocked CV out, the modern horse is really sad.Seriously don\'t know if the ROTW scribe was making a joke or not.


Mike
Title: Re: Virginia Derby - Miff
Post by: jimbo66 on July 18, 2008, 07:17:00 PM
Miff,

I would bet a lot that the scribe was not kidding.  I know your view of the Wood and I understand.  But the \"numbers\" guys will tell you the horse got a \"2\", which then seems to have sent the horse backwards.  

Tale of Ekati worked lousy on turf, BTW.  Now thinking of maybe running in the Haskell.
Title: Re: Virginia Derby - Miff
Post by: richiebee on July 18, 2008, 08:32:40 PM
Jimbo:

I am hoping Tagg tries TOE at the Spa.

Lots of Spa Graded stakes winners in his pedigree-- Tale of the Cat (won Kings
Bishop, second in Whitney),Gold Beauty (won Test), Maplejinsky (won Alabama),
Sky Beauty (won Alabama) ...
Title: Re: Virginia Derby - Miff
Post by: miff on July 19, 2008, 05:07:16 AM
\"Tale of Ekati worked lousy on turf, BTW. Now thinking of maybe running in the Haskell\"


Jim,

We\'ve all seen \"knock out\" figs/performances,CV\'s wasn\'t even close to being one of them.Thats the problem with solely looking at numbers on a piece of paper and drawing conclusions without regard for any other factors.To each his own though.

Re the Haskell, TOE looks to be going and BB is not exactly burning up the track in the AM. BB is being handled too gingerly,imo, and if he doesn\'t pop a quick 5/8ths soon, he becomes a target if a good alternative shows up.The prospective Haskell entrants look pretty ordinary so far.Good Luck!


Mike
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: Uncle Buck on July 19, 2008, 10:42:10 AM
I gotta go with my namesake, Old Man Buck, on top. Playing exacta\'s and tri\'s keying #2 with 3,4,7,8. Hopefully Robby utilizes the inside post to his advantage
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: P-Dub on July 19, 2008, 11:28:09 AM
I also like the #2 Old Man Buck. First race back equals his 2yo top, slight forward move takes this. Anything close to his ML is a strong win bet for me.

Key OMB on top, key Sailor\'s Cap underneath with the 1,3,4,7. Will also play a ticket without keying SC underneath. Will play 1 ticket with SC on top of OMB over the others.

Anybody think The Shark will hold on tomorrow??
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: richiebee on July 19, 2008, 12:56:10 PM
P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

 
> Anybody think The Shark will hold on tomorrow??

PDub:

If you believe in omens, another grizzled veteran, Evening Attire,
just ran away from younger rivals at Philly Park.
Title: Re: Virginia Derby - Miff
Post by: MonmouthGuy on July 19, 2008, 02:52:11 PM
Miff.  Do you know if Mint Lane is being pointed to the Haskell?
Title: Re: Virginia Derby - Miff
Post by: miff on July 19, 2008, 03:02:04 PM
Subject to how he was doing,Jim Dandy or another spot not mentioned.


Mike
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: Halo Fire on July 19, 2008, 03:09:23 PM
As wealthy as he is, he\'s still an underdog. I\'m rooting for him.
Title: Re: Virginia Derby - Miff
Post by: fkach on July 20, 2008, 07:41:24 AM
\"BB is not exactly burning up the track in the AM. BB is being handled too gingerly,imo, and if he doesn\'t pop a quick 5/8ths soon, he becomes a target if a good alternative shows up.\"

I agree with you.

This horse is either OK or he\'s not. At this point it doesn\'t really matter much if his feet go bad etc... He already has a lot of value and is not \"trying to make it\" through the Triple Crown. He\'s trying to re-establish his credentials as a great 3YO.

I\'m in the camp that thinks he actually did TOO LITTLE between the Preakness and Belmont (because of the hoof but also partly by design before the hoof went bad) and that was one of many factors that contributed to his terrible performance. Now we are seeing that again.    

Personally I don\'t get it.

If they are trying to re-establish this horse as a potentially great 3YO, they better send him out fit and sharp because some of the other 3YOs are getting better. When he was doing well in the spring, he looked great in his workouts too. If he\'s too tender and fragile to cope with hard training, then they should just retire him. Sending out a sub par horse is not going to re-establish anything other than allowing his critics to say he was beating up on a weak group in the Classics.
Title: Re: Virginia Derby
Post by: girly on July 20, 2008, 08:29:50 AM
I hit the super cold yesterday-that was nice- I\'m looking forward to next Sat at the Spa!
Title: Big Brown Work
Post by: fkach on July 21, 2008, 01:34:02 PM
BB a little better this time.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/96552.html
Title: Re: Big Brown Work
Post by: marcus on July 21, 2008, 07:04:02 PM
still wondering about that dangling sticker \"shoe\" business . i\'d heard of horses throwing or running with-out shoes , but that was a new twist in the belmont ...