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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: rosewood on June 18, 2008, 05:47:36 AM

Title: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: rosewood on June 18, 2008, 05:47:36 AM
http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/story/435946.html
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: sighthound on June 18, 2008, 06:46:41 AM
Who, Thayer or Whitfield?

Thayer is Republican friend to hardboot, conservative KY horsemen.

Whitfield (R) is the mouthpiece for the Humane Society of the United States, a semi-extreme animal rights organization that is trying to ban 2-year-old horse racing.

Whitfield\'s wife Connie is a VP of the Humane Society of the United States, and the Humane Society buttered her husband Whitfields\' campaign funding bread.  

Connie Whitfield is a member of the Kentucky Horse Racing Authority board. Her appointment was fought by many due to her animal rights activist ties, fearing \"inside\" attempts by her to control and ban horse racing.

See Steve Crist\'s DRF editorial column from last week:  

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=95470
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: miff on June 18, 2008, 07:18:50 AM
\"EPO is a much more effective performance enhancer than steroids,\" said Alan Leavitt, a harness horse breeder who sits on both the drug council and the racing authority. \"Steroids is sexier, but EPO is more powerful.\"



A harness guy(big time) has to tell the clueless!

...finally someone stating the obvious to many, except the politicians and race track managers.The clueless chase steroids, while THE real beast, the magic bullet(masked blood dope,undetectable designer cocktail pain meds) get hardly a mention.

Steroids are in National vogue, so the clueless politicians and the animal loons jump on board.They should leave a National steroid policy to the vet-experts to come up with.What strictly helps a horse race/recover should be permitted and administered by a vet with detailed records kept.Designer and abused steroid use should bring license revocation for 5 years, 1st offense,with harsher penalties thereafter.

It\'s a disgrace that a certified card carrying animal loon and PETA lackey, Mrs.Whitfield,may have some influence on the future of racing without a scintilla of knowledge of any aspect of the game.

Mike
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: sighthound on June 18, 2008, 08:02:48 AM
Small point, Connie Whitfield is a HSUS lackey, not a PETA lackey

HSUS works through lobbying and legislation to control and eliminate animal ownership, PETA uses intimidation, arson and murder.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: miff on June 18, 2008, 08:18:52 AM
Thanks Sight, I kinda pidgeon hole all animal loons.


Mike
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: rosewood on June 18, 2008, 08:42:49 AM
Mike,

You and Sight are correct to pidgeon hole all animal loons and you should add all politicians together.

It\'s a hell of a note that all you, I, JB and everyone else wants is a fair and level playing  field for all horses, owners, trainers and bettors, and everyone is so on the take that no one will simply correct whats wrong and get on with the racing.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: magicnight on June 18, 2008, 09:09:13 AM
I\'m not defending or promoting the tactics of either organization, but, if being horrified by what happened to Eight Belles (and George Washington, and Barbaro, and Prairie Bayou, and Union City, and Go for Wand, ad infinitum) puts me with the \"loons\", then I would gladly be placed in that \"pidgeon\" hole.

US racing has put itself in this position. If you all want to believe it is just a small circle of lunatics that deigns to put the humane interests of the horse above the commercial interests of breeders, trainers, owners and, yes, bettors, you all are more clueless than the people you so casually deride.

Bob
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: miff on June 18, 2008, 09:27:48 AM
Magic,

There are horrible injuries in every sport, some fatal to horses and humans.It\'s a terribly unfortunate part of the game.The welfare of the horse certainly is important AFTER the welfare of the jockeys, some killed, several paralyzed for life with little concern from the loons for their plight.I am far more horrified when I see Ron Turcotte or Andy Lakeman(I know for years)in wheelchairs than I am when a horse break down.Guess we do not share the same values.

There is no question that parts of racing are at least unkind to the race horse.If I felt like some, I would not watch or participate in the racing game but rather I\'d attend a petting zoo.

Mike
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: rosewood on June 18, 2008, 09:38:33 AM
Magic,

You list six horses that cover a considerable time frame.

Would you go back and research how many jocks on the track, young human athletes and professionals have died or been killed in that time frame?

Why have you  not attacked all other sports?

That is why you are a LOON........................
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: TGJB on June 18, 2008, 09:46:37 AM
Ahem. When a jock goes down, it\'s usually BECAUSE the horse has gone down. Making the latter less likely will make the former less likely.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: sighthound on June 18, 2008, 09:48:59 AM
Ask Connie Whitfield what her organization, the Humane Society of the United States, did with the money they stole from folks who donated to them, to \"save homeless Hurricane Katrina animals\".  

Did it help homeless animals?  Nope.  Not one.

Did it help get Connie Whitfield\'s husband elected to Congress?  Yup.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: rosewood on June 18, 2008, 09:54:50 AM
Jerry,

Isn\'t it the reason we are fighting to clean up drug use to prevent the latter where it is a result of drug violations?

Surely a complete research of the human sports deaths may reveal drug use, don\'t you think?
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: magicnight on June 18, 2008, 10:01:36 AM
Mike/Rosewood;

You both seem to have misinterpreted my post. I\'ll write slower.

\"The welfare of the horse certainly is important AFTER the welfare of the jockeys, some killed, several paralyzed for life with little concern from the loons for their plight.\"

I said the \"humane\" interest of the horse versus the \"commercial\" interests of the jockeys, et al. Savvy the difference?

20-odd years ago Mike Venezia almost got his neck broken because a vet got overruled and a horse with a hot leg broke down. All you jockey-lovers really changed things after that, yes?

\"Guess we do not share the same values.\"

No, we don\'t. For one, I favor honest arguments without subject-shifting.

\"It\'s a terribly unfortunate part of the game.\"

Yeah, how\'s that line working out these days? Only slightly better than it will the next time, I\'d guess.

Bob
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: TGJB on June 18, 2008, 10:11:34 AM
My point is that someone who is interested in preventing breakdowns isn\'t putting horses ahead of people, he\'s protecting both.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: miff on June 18, 2008, 10:13:17 AM
Magic,

Horses breaking down will be a part of the game no matter what rules they put in.Since horses were not meant to be raced in the first place, the only way to stop breakdowns completely is to stop the game.

I also disagree that those who put in $millions of capital into the horse business and less important than the animals.


Mike
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: Silver Charm on June 18, 2008, 10:15:43 AM
Rosewood, See my post from a coupe of years. Nothing has changed so why are people surprised. Also the owners of One Rocket. IEAH


Re: Are Racehorses Getting Slower. Not in Kentucky
Posted by: Silver Charm (IP Logged)
Date: January 17, 2005 07:30AM


The fact that Ky Politics is run by Daddys\' Boy, Boss Hogg politicians like Damon Thayer should be no surprise to anyone.

The fact that critical Racing Decisions that will impact the future of the industry not just in Ky but nationwide are controlled by the Boss Hogg\'s of the world and \"Who has bought off Who\" should be no surprise to anyone.

The fact that this years KY Derby winner, Oaks winner, Blue Grass Stakes winner and nearly all other Stakes races in Ky will be won by horses running with close to a half dozen performance enhancing substances in their systems that are banned in most major racing jurisdictions should be no surprise to anyone.

The fact that the biggest newspaper in the state of Ky creates a city-wide emergency when the Mens basketball coach has gas in his stomach but considers \"milkshakes\" in the stomach of race horses at the local race track a non-story should be a surprise to no one.

What is a surprise is how in the world the most recent incident where One Rocket was drugged, ran far superior to his previous form, has turned into a Rebate Shop Story. There are plenty of small-time inside jobs going on everyday where drugs are involved. Where have the Woodward and Bernstein types and fist pounding Editors in the Racing Media disappeared too?
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: rosewood on June 18, 2008, 10:21:24 AM
Amen Brother................
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: rosewood on June 18, 2008, 10:38:40 AM
Who is a jockey lover?

Don\'t just go back for the six horse time frame. Go back at least 20 years as you pointed out when the vet was over ruled as you stated and come back with your injury and death report of all organized sport in public schools and professional sports since then and we can compare the results.

Then maybe you will answer the question of why you don\'t direct your efforts to shut down all sports in the U.S.?  That is what I ask?

What action did you take concerning the vet getting over ruled?  Did you contact anyone? Did you have racehorses at the time? Did you sell them ?

These seem to be honest questions.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: magicnight on June 18, 2008, 10:40:34 AM
Mike;

I understand that you will never be able to make racing completely safe for anyone - horses and jocks both. That said, if US racing interests do not do everything in their power to reduce the level of catastrophic injuries to the level of Hong Kong, or Europe at least, this sport is eventually going the way of the dodo, no matter what you or the hardboots say.

I know you love dirt, and I know you love speed, but if you don\'t see how those two factors mixed with the lax oversight have turned our game into a meat grinder (relative to Europe and Hong Kong) I don\'t know how I can convince you otherwise.

I also understand that if racing goes, so goes the thoroughbred. Sure, some people would keep them because they are rare, and beautiful, like orchids; and - absent racing - about as useless. But if most of the population sees them as beautiful beasts being ground up for the pleasure of gamblers and breeders, the game will not survive. At that time, unless you have a farm and tons of cash, the petting zoo will, sadly, become your only option.

Bob
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: magicnight on June 18, 2008, 10:43:58 AM
No, Rosewood, these are moronic questions and I\'m not even going to ignore them.

Bob
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: sighthound on June 18, 2008, 11:09:12 AM
Horse racing has rarely cleaned it\'s own house.  Horse racing has historically been a culture of cheating, hopping, gambling, with more nefarious associations than not.  And that includes many a powerful owner.

That doesn\'t mean, however, that the only solution to current problems is to put control of the sport in the hands of those who want to see horse racing eliminated.

I think some underestimate how powerful the \"animal loons\", and their public sympathizers, can be.

See Britain.

Why do you think The Jockey Club is scrambling so frantically right now?  Less to save their historical power and influence, than to save the existence of the sport.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: TGJB on June 18, 2008, 11:53:02 AM
Yes and no. They actually first approached me late last year, because certain important individuals had had enough. Events of the last few months (8 Belles, Whitfield) have actually made their task easier by increasing the sense of urgency of the tracks, which will help get the objectives achieved.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: miff on June 18, 2008, 11:59:58 AM
Sight,

You are correct to the extent that in order to gain political capital the loons will buy into the horse racing issue notwithstanding that they are clueless about the sport.There are issues that need to be urgently addressed but the loons or their political power base should not be calling the shots.

Many in the racing hierarchy who have long turned a blind eye to lots of bad stuff are now the \"champions of change\" Gimme a break, these transparent slugs screwed the game up with their indifference all along.New blood is needed, the empty suits are running scared now but it\'s very late as the endangered specie, i.e. the customer, has already headed for the door.


Mike
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: mjellish on June 18, 2008, 12:26:24 PM
Hi Jerry,

A quick question.  If the racing community wants to regulate and/or control the use of drugs and other medical substances they are going to have to find a way to enforce the rules.  That means they are going to have to test for these substances, which is going to cost some money.  That money is going to have to come from somewhere.  My guess is that after much good and bad debate back and forth the powers that be will eventually turn to throwing this back upon the horseplayer in the form of a 1-2% increase in takeout or something thereabouts.  While leveling the playing field so to speak may lead to an increase in confidence and therefore handle, in theory I\'m not sure that it will work out that way.  I therefore think it is the wrong way to go.  I am curious to know what talk there has been about how to fund all of this.  Perhaps some sort of increase on interstate or online wagering may be acceptable and they could generate enough money to then leave the takeout for on-track wagering alone, or possibly even reduce it?  What do you think would be the best way?

As a racegoer I\'m happy to pay my share, but...
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: Thehoarsehorseplayer on June 18, 2008, 12:51:13 PM
How about from a tax on stud fees? It seems to me the Breeders have been taking way more out of the game then they have been giving back for quite some time.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: sighthound on June 18, 2008, 01:11:35 PM
I think TJC is the only group that CAN get the objectives achieved.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: sighthound on June 18, 2008, 02:29:43 PM
Steve Byk had Damon Thayer on his, \"At the Races\" radio show Wednesday at about 5:15pm   You can hear it on the replay archive at

 http://www.thoroughbredracingradionetwork.com/
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: girly on June 18, 2008, 03:57:10 PM
The voice of reason.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: Boscar Obarra on June 18, 2008, 08:20:50 PM
I believe  you\'ll find the knee jerk name callers (ie \"animal loons\") are the same ones kicking their dogs and possibly beating their wives.

  Anyone so anxious to prove they love people that they relegate the welfare of an animal to second rate status, is , at best, deeply suspect.
Title: Re: Wonder where his bread is buttered ?
Post by: miff on June 19, 2008, 05:45:05 AM
Boxcar,

Surprised at your comments.Thought you knew that most racehorses are treated better than many people in this country. No real problem with that, but when the PETA loons and alike try to gain political capital and raise money off of  nationally televised tragic breakdowns, they can go.... themselves, period!

I don\'t believe anyone here has any problem with people who genuinely have affinity for animals,as I do,it\'s the fringe loon that I speak of.



Mike