Dutrow puts the blame on Desormeaux.
http://www.drf.com/news/article/95324.html
Can you believe these clowns.From Desormeaux.He \"knew\" D\'Tara was the one to beat once he got the lead, SAY WHAT??
How about,\"maybe three weeks was too much time between races\", hee hee, can\'t make this stuff up.
Tricky blaming the jockey when the horse was empty.Love this game more every day!
Mike
Dutrow: \"I know he went into this race unbelievable, so the rest Kent\'s got to answer.\"
Earth to Rick. He didn\'t go into this race unbelievable. He was awful.
horrible ride..... period.
I agree with Dutrow . I felt it was a suspect ride by Desormeaux.
1. KD should be put on the carpet by the Steward\'s to explain his ride on BB.
2 . If he was told to go to the front what was he trying to do in the first turn.
3.2. Big Brown does break out into the 2 horse but KD does not want to be on the inside for some stupid reason .
4. He ran Big Brown into Tale of Ekati, causing a gash in his right hind foot.
5. He decides not to stay on the rail but instead pushes Anak Nakal out of his way to be wide in the first turn.
6.He finally gets him wide and outside of horses because that is where He wants to be.
7.He takes no advantage of being on the rail.
8.He asks for his run after a mile gets nothing while still very wide and decides to pull the horse up half way on the turn.
9.I think Desormeaux Choked Big Time.
10.He was not going to win anyway but that is not how you ride a 1 to 5 shot.
11.If it was my horse I would be looking for another Jockey.
One last thing I had the Bel. Analysis and made the same bet as JB in race 11.Box five horse the 3,4,7,8,9 in all exotics.
Look at the tape Gents, If i was the owner I would thank KD for not abusing the Horse..now blaming him? you want to appeace the Investors?...Get real!
I am not blaming him for losing the race. I am blaming him for his over confident poor ride.
I still think he should be called out by the stewards. Millions of dollars were wagered on Big Brown and KD is pulling up the horse because he was not going to be in the money. It does not look good if nothing is wrong with the horse.
The safety of the horse should always come first but I think he should of let the horse finish the race on his own even if it was last.
Gohorse,
1) There\'s a difference between a bad ride and a dishonest ride. If the judges called every jock on the carpet who rode a bad race and questioned them, they\'d have holes in their carpet. Do you believe Kent did something dishonest? Do you think he did what he did on purpose? Was TC glory and a 5 million dollar bonus check and his sons eyesight not enough incentive for him to try to win?
2) The horse bobbled at the start. Before Kent was able to get the horse into proper stride, the leader was over and in front of him in the 1 path and the 7 horse was alongside him boxing him in. Kent had absolutely no where to go. The riders of the front runner and the 7 horse did an amazing job getting their horses in position early on. Its the trainer\'s responsibility to make sure the horse isn\'t \'running off\' with the rider while in a box. Its his responsibility to make sure that \'great horse\' is able to be ridden with kid gloves and responds kindly to rating tactics.
3) Kent didn\'t want to be behind a 40-1 shot who was soaking wet in the post parade. Can you blame him?
7) Why would you need an advantage of saving ground when the trainer told everyone this was an invincible horse before the race? When you are invincible, you get wide and out of harms way, which is what Kent did. You don\'t take even a 1% chance of getting boxed in or in trouble when you are a mile the best (like the trainer told everyone he was)
10) exactly HOW do you ride a 1-5 shot? If Kent would have sent BB and shut off D Tara and then dueled with Da Tara the entire first turn and into the backstretch and then tired, Kent would have been strung up in times square for dueling with a \'no hope\' 40-1 shot. If Kent sent BB to the front, he gets dueled into defeat.
I dont\' think people understand that this was a mile and a half race and you have to go as slow as molasses in the first half mile of the race in order to have any shot. People are saying Kent should have \'gunned\' BB to the front, i think anyone who says that isn\'t really thinking.
Imallin,
When you are MUCH the best going in, you take command, thats why they wanted BB in front.D\'Tara never showed the same kind of speed that BB displayed, for example, the Fla Derby clearing from the 12 post.
He broke well enough to make the lead, but Desormeaux took hold as soon as he saw D\'Tara. If he made the lead easily he still would have been off the board, imo. Having found no infirmiry/sickness, one has to assume he was over the top or if you believe several trainers,Billy Turner, Lukas, he was undertrained.
The horse was empty, period, the poor/panicked ride irrelevant.
Mike
I agree. The colt was empty.
The simplest explanation may be the best one; 3 races in 5 weeks for a lightly-raced 3 year old with bad feet. More seasoned and healthier 3 year olds have lost this race too.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
........and 3 big regressing negs in a row
>or if you believe several trainers,Billy Turner, Lukas, he was undertrained.<
Jean Cruget said the horse was undertrained BEFORE the Belmont.
I think we should call that the \"anti-bounce bounce\" theory. That\'s when a trainer is so worried about the toll some tough races are taking on his horse he doesn\'t train it enough and it goes off form for the opposite reason. ;-)
I\'m not sure Dutrow really had an option in this case. The horse had a problem.
That\'s why it\'s so hard to do.
Makes you marvel at the Seattle Slews of the racing world and tip your hat to those like Real Quiet and Silver Charm who ran their eyeballs out in all 3 races.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
With all due respect to Jean Cruget, etc, I think Thorograph had it right...this horse was over the top, not undertrained. There have been other poorly trained horses in the Belmont and they mostly fire and stall. BB\'s batteries just ran down because he went to the gate run down.
Let\'s get on to the next topic and stop bashing Dutrow. I doubt any of these other expert trainers could have put this horse over, under the circumstances.
I am waiting for the day when the trainer says
\"he ran three big figures in a row and two in the past month, and when they\'re set to bounce it\'s hard to quantify how large that bounce will be.\"
Probably not in my lifetime.
Ian,
Why not 2 big figures in a row, or 4 or 5.Pure speculation on how many big races knock out a horse. TG had him x\'ing in the Derby and Preakness, what happened?
Mike
Desormeaux was quoted before the race saying he had to make a decision within the first 100 yards, that he had to react faster than a computer....well he crashed.
We are talking about the Belmont Stakes, not the Breeders Cup Sprint here. You have more tactical speed than anyone in the race and you are worried about being boxed in? In the Preakness Desormeaux didn\'t get his ideal stalking spot until he was completely out of the 1st turn, this after being down inside behind the pacesetters for a half a mile. Watch the replay.
In the Preakness Riley Tucker makes the front, just like Da Tara did in the Belmont, Big Brown is content to let that one go, Hey Byrn is just off of Riley Tucker, just like Tale of Ekati was in the Belmont. That\'s a 35-1 and a 30-1 shot that Desormeaux was content to sit behind early in the race. If he rode the Preakness, like he did the Belmont, he would have tried to blast up around Riley Tucker, been shut off by Hey Bryn, then would have steadied his mount and again used horse to get outside those two, likely bumping Gayego in the process. Instead he was patient, let the pace go early and some seperation to develop, once he had a chance to get outside Big Brown did it comfortably not rank and fighting the jockey. Watch the head-on of the Belmont at no time is Big Brown comfortable within the first quarter mile of that race.
Maybe Big Brown wins the Belmont if Desormeaux doesn\'t blow the first quarter mile of the race, maybe he\'s beat anyway. I for one am objective enough to know that you can\'t contstantly steady a rank horse early in a race and expect the same results as you have gotten with perfect stalking trips.
Patience cost previous Triple Crown wannabees and it certainly wasn\'t a virtue on Saturday.
miff Wrote:
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> Imallin,
>
>
> When you are MUCH the best going in, you take
> command, thats why they wanted BB in front.D\'Tara
> never showed the same kind of speed that BB
> displayed, for example, the Fla Derby clearing
> from the 12 post.
>
> He broke well enough to make the lead, but
> Desormeaux took hold as soon as he saw D\'Tara. If
> he made the lead easily he still would have been
> off the board, imo. Having found no
> infirmiry/sickness, one has to assume he was over
> the top or if you believe several trainers,Billy
> Turner, Lukas, he was undertrained.
>
>
> The horse was empty, period, the poor/panicked
> ride irrelevant.
>
>
> Mike
Mike,
Da Tara got to the 1/2 in :45.2 in two of his last four races, and the Zito/Garcia team was determined to get the lead. if Desormeaux had tried, BB might have avoided the trouble, but would have been toast just as early imo.
the ride might have been a very minor factor in the perfect storm of defeat, but I agree, the horse had virtually no chance of hitting the board with any type of ride.
jmetro Wrote:
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> > In the Preakness Riley Tucker makes the front,
> just like Da Tara did in the Belmont, Big Brown is
> content to let that one go, Hey Byrn is just off
> of Riley Tucker, just like Tale of Ekati was in
> the Belmont. That\'s a 35-1 and a 30-1 shot that
> Desormeaux was content to sit behind early in the
> race. If he rode the Preakness, like he did the
> Belmont, he would have tried to blast up around
> Riley Tucker, been shut off by Hey Bryn, then
> would have steadied his mount and again used horse
> to get outside those two, likely bumping Gayego in
> the process. Instead he was patient, let the pace
> go early and some seperation to develop, once he
> had a chance to get outside Big Brown did it
> comfortably not rank and fighting the jockey.
> Watch the head-on of the Belmont at no time is Big
> Brown comfortable within the first quarter mile of
> that race.
>
> Maybe Big Brown wins the Belmont if Desormeaux
> doesn\'t blow the first quarter mile of the race,
> maybe he\'s beat anyway. I for one am objective
> enough to know that you can\'t contstantly steady a
> rank horse early in a race and expect the same
> results as you have gotten with perfect stalking
> trips.
You answered your own question. BB allowed Desormeaux to settle him in the Preakness. He didn\'t in the Belmont. Bad ride, over the top horse, whatever.
This subject has been beaten to death. Enough already.
Mike,
That\'s one of the problems. They all eventually wear down and go off form from the strains of racing. Form cycles are nothing new. They were written about in the very earliest books on handicapping. The trick is to get the probabilities for any given race as close as possible otherwise you can can broke waiting for the bounce before you eventually get it right. It\'s not easy. The thing that TG brings to the analysis is the insight that extreme performances can accelerate the process.
48 and 1 on a fast track and big brown labors behind? well lets see, maybe fighting to get 5 wide on the first turn instead of sitting behind then pulling out after would have been the smarter move.
You guys are amazing.
A 1200 pound, amped up thoroughbred is rank and won\'t settle for his jockey. Yet, somehow the jockey, through some sort of magic, is supposed to get this animal to relax and rate behind the speed.
Big Brown was rank and about to run up the heels of Da Tara. This was not the same horse that allowed Desormeaux to rate him in his 2 previous races.
As far as being 5 wide, funny none of you bitched and moaned after the Derby when he was 5 wide all the way around the track.
What exactly should Desormeaux have done??
-Rate him?? The horse didn\'t allow him too.
-Go to the lead?? The horse didn\'t break well enough.
This was far from the best ride we\'ve ever seen, but it didn\'t matter. He wasn\'t going to win anyway.
Give up P-Dub, it seriously is not worth it. If there are people out there who honestly think BB could have won or even finished in the money had he gotten to the lead or stayed on the rail behind Da\'Tara, all I can say is, I\'m very happy to be sharing the mutuel pools with them. And if you don\'t believe that, commenting on the ride is absolutely irrelevant.
Agree with all your points. Let\'s face it -- BB failed miserably. Why? There\'s no reason and there\'s a hundred reasons. This is horse racing.
KD is an easy target and Dutrow chose to fire at him, at least initially. Dutrow is many things, including a man who takes pride in his work. When KD says \"I had no horse\" to millions of viewers, what trainer wouldn\'t take that personally in that situation.
I didn\'t have the winner, but sensing a soft pace I used him underneath. The results weren\'t that shocking, were they? Only 2 horses with any semblance of speed and one of them doesn\'t run his race. The other is more than ready to run, sets soft fractions, and speed-pops the field. Sure, it was the Belmont and a TC was on the line, but it was just another horse race also. What kind of odds would we have seen with BB out of the race? The lone speed play would have been a popular angle I would think.
The much more interesting discussion is what we do with BB the next time he runs, an apparent likely possibility.
TreadHead Wrote:
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> Give up P-Dub, it seriously is not worth it. If
> there are people out there who honestly think BB
> could have won or even finished in the money had
> he gotten to the lead or stayed on the rail behind
> Da\'Tara, all I can say is, I\'m very happy to be
> sharing the mutuel pools with them. And if you
> don\'t believe that, commenting on the ride is
> absolutely irrelevant.
What a pompous thing to say, Just because we think BB was given a horsesh*t ride we somehow are not successful at the windows.
Your moniker is half right.