Do you think Street Sense is going to finally start to diminish in ability after running so many good races? It felt like a 100 degrees yesterday at SAR and he did it again (as expected) but by the Breeders Cup might all the running take its toll, or will his rest in between races relieve the impact on a young horse? Or is this a question that there is no answer to until the race is over? I\'m excited for him although I\'m thinking he could be my current day Native Dancer. If so, wondering who the current day \"Dark Star\" might be in the BC. Guess we have to wait to we get closer to make our educated guesses. Any insight on SS would be appreciated !!
I am no doubt NOT who you wanted to talk to about this, but I think he was still short yesterday. Having watched Mr Carl with Unbridled, I wouldn\'t count him out. He doesn\'t over do it too soon. And I wouldn\'t expect him to be all in next time either. He is very clever, this old bull rider, with a long horse, especially. It\'s probably too bad for SS that there is a race in between.
thanks, I didn\'t realize he was running a race in between? Could you tell me which one? I realize I am sophomoric when it comes to this board, not sure I have a right to be on here, since I mostly have questions. SS seemed all in to me when loading into the gate (maybe was my empathy kicking in) but I figured the heat was going to affect him and the whole race. I think Borel really learned his lesson and brought him up sooner this time. Do you think that made a difference? Shouldn\'t we be calling him a monster horse at this point? It doesn\'t appear anyone is exulting him to the level I am when it comes to the BC, no way he is not going to hit the board in that race, only wondering who the upset is going to be if there is one !!
Nafzger said there are 4 possibilities for SS\'s next race: Mass Cap at Suffolk(?);
Hawthorne Gold Cup; Jockey Club Gold Cup at Belmont and Kentucky Cup at Turfway.
SS ran so well in the Derby after a synthetic prep in the Blue Grass that it
would not surprise me to see him turn up in the Turfway spot.
What a great job by Nafzger. BC Juvenile, KY Derby, Jim Dandy, Travers, likely
favorite for the BC Classic in what will be his last career race before heading
to stud.
A tough one for the \"Greatness Committee\"-- a tremendous resume, yet he has not
run particularly fast, nor beaten very good horses (Any Given Saturday may turn
out to be the best of the 3YOs that he has beaten).
SS needs to beat 2 quality fields of older horses in his last two races to be
remembered as a \"great horse\" as opposed to merely a \"great 3YO\".
thanks, Richie. Aside from speed, doesn\'t running style come into play just as strong to make a \"great one,\" thinking back to \'03 when Pleasantly Perfect won the BC and wasn\'t necessarily being touted the fastest, but he was a closer, which put me onto him (was a 14 to 1 shot). I felt semi-comfortable watching SS in yesterday\'s race because I felt he was right were he needed to be if he was going to fire, and he did. But I see what you mean, if he was with a faster group, that \"fire\" might not have done it.
Also, what about the fast ones that aren\'t consistent and have that \"bounce\" tendency after a strong push. They are the most dangerous to play !! Thanks for that insight.
I think I\'ll sit back and read the messages on this board for a while, my ideas are going to help anyone !!
It may be Street Sense\'s synthetic preps catapulted him to his BC Juvenile and Derby wins. It may also be that he relishes the Churchill Downs strip. He hasn\'t looked as impressive away from Churchill for a simple reason, he hasn\'t been.
Any Given Saturday looked good in the Haskell and is coming back to Monmouth for the Doper\'s Cup, I mean the Breeders Cup. Although AGS has to be factored on that Haskell effort, he was the beneficiary of a well timed ride. They motored early and he picked up the pieces.
Is anyone else getting the impression that neither really relish 10 furlongs? What gives these two a lift is that the handicap ranks are not the strongest they\'ve ever been. That said, there are a couple of older horses that could spoil their party. Including Lawyer Ron, provided Plech can get away with \"tinkering\" with him again. The drug policy/testing/oversight for the Breeders Cup will be the key to which horses run well. If Plech is scared into running clean, you\'ll get a King of the Roxy result. If he can dope, it will be very interesting.
richiebee Wrote:
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> Nafzger said there are 4 possibilities for SS\'s
> next race: Mass Cap at Suffolk(?);
> Hawthorne Gold Cup; Jockey Club Gold Cup at
> Belmont and Kentucky Cup at Turfway.
>
> SS ran so well in the Derby after a synthetic prep
> in the Blue Grass that it
> would not surprise me to see him turn up in the
> Turfway spot.
>
> What a great job by Nafzger. BC Juvenile, KY
> Derby, Jim Dandy, Travers, likely
> favorite for the BC Classic in what will be his
> last career race before heading
> to stud.
>
> A tough one for the \"Greatness Committee\"-- a
> tremendous resume, yet he has not
> run particularly fast, nor beaten very good horses
> (Any Given Saturday may turn
> out to be the best of the 3YOs that he has
> beaten).
>
> SS needs to beat 2 quality fields of older horses
> in his last two races to be
> remembered as a \"great horse\" as opposed to merely
> a \"great 3YO\".
In Sunday\'s New York Post, Ed Fountaine, who allegedly asked Governor Spitzer
to look into why there was no longer a free lunch in the NYRA press box,listed
the Kentucky Cup at Turfway as one of four possible BC preps for SS.
In Monday\'s Post, the Ky Cup has been replaced with the Super Derby as one of
the 4 potential preps.
Two of the other preps which were mentioned (Hawthorne Gold Cup, Mass Cap at
Suffolk) would be virtual walkovers which would probably have purses sweetened
with what would amount to appearance money for Nafzger/Tafel.
Do not know if Tafel/Nafzger or the Dubai Brothers are calling the shots now.
The Greatness Committee needs to pay attention lest this great 3YO be
mistakenly characterized as a great horse without proper credentials.
\"It may be Street Sense\'s synthetic preps catapulted him to his BC Juvenile and Derby wins. It may also be that he relishes the Churchill Downs strip. He hasn\'t looked as impressive away from Churchill for a simple reason, he hasn\'t been\"
Chuck,
Kinda agree because I don\'t know if it\'s Churchill or just tight glib surfaces that SS excels on. Watching him work/race at CD vs the SPA, he looks like two different horses.Monmouth is usually a very fast surface, so SS should be more explosive than he was at the SPA.He also raced closer to the pace at the SPA and maybe that negated some of his big quick brush.
Gotta laugh how Nafzager(who always had good quality horse to work with) is now Charlie Wittingham or Woody Stevens or whoever.He appears to be a solid horseman with a very nice colt.
Every year we have a new genius trainer,recently we had Matz,Richey,Servis. Who are they training now? I wonder if Jamie Saunders wins the derby next year if she will be considered a great horse person.
Mike
Although I promised to stop posting on the drug issue, your belief or disbelief in it affects your handicapping.
I would like to see what SS\'s Travers\' number was, because I thought he ran a more difficult route in winning and I assume it was solid, as a result. Putting aside questions about Grasshopper\'s quality, which is a new measure of SS\'s ability, the two of them did bury the rest of the field, the way they should have.
We know a lot more about SS now. We know he finishes in a questionable way when his challengers in the lane run on. It seems to me that AGS and or LR will give him a very hard time at Monmouth if drug strictures are not tough for the Breeders Cup. I don\'t think he can beat them if they have the amount of artificial encouragement I BELIEVE they were given in their recent races.
Also, TAP is likely to pull off a triple in the BC if he has a free hand.
CTC,
I wouldn\'t start writing SS off just yet.Certainly CD could be his favorite,but there are many factors involved.Would you consider his
PIMLICO effort sub-par?
>Although I promised to stop posting on the drug issue, your belief or disbelief in it affects your handicapping. <
When horses change trainers (or vets if you happen to know that) you have to pay attention regardless of what your opinion is on the extent of the drug problem. However, IMHO, if you pay attention to it far beyond that it will screw up your thinking badly. You\'ll start thinking that every horse that moved forward was drugged and every horse that threw in a clinker raced without drugs because of new testing or some other reason etc... That kind of thing will paralyze you and is obviously very prevalent here.
Flighted Iron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CTC,
>
> I wouldn\'t start writing SS off just
> yet.Certainly CD could be his favorite,but there
> are many factors involved.Would you consider his
> PIMLICO effort sub-par?
Yes, measuring it by the Churchill Standards, but in that unit of measurement I\'ve considered all of his Non-Churchill starts subpar. I\'m really not sure what the TFigs say, though factoring them, I don\'t let them define the effort for me. Except maybe for Lawyer Ron\'s Whitney...lol
Honestly, I\'m still looking at the Travers Day card trying to factor it. I think he went in 2.02.69 which is not bad time there and they were 10 lengths clear. It is possible that Grasshopper is a tough cookie.
I think that like the guys you mention, who were daily hands on any big colt they had, Nafzger is benefitting from not having a lot of horses to worry about at one time. And it is true he did almost the same thing with Unbridled, by that I mean, not having to try and get paid every dime possible along the way, ala Mr Lukas or Todd Pletcher. Different clients, different styles-I do remember Unbridled being short in New Orleans before the BC win. It is easier the second time around, and it is way less frantic to do anything when you are 66 compared to when you are 40 something, trust an old guy on that, well almost anything.
3 starts at 2 yo is different than 3 starts at Saratoga for a 2 yo. But overall nice horses make everyone look good - When Wayne stopped and trained T. Cat, he looked good too.