Well another blow to one racing channel concept. How much did CD/Twin Spires help bail these Magna guys out from a Chapter 11 scenario?
Now we got an even more confused betting landscape etc, TVG loses more good racing, but gains Monmouth this summer. The whole damn thing is screwed up even more now. No one ever really works together in this business for the \'bettor\".
NC Tony
imo - it\'s totally messed up , even going back 3-4 years ago, , i get an email from tvg telling me all nyc betting accounts with cancelled given a ceratin date due to a law change in my state . i went w/ youbet and i\'m not unhappy with them but who knows where it\'s going - what next ? i\'ve pulled back alot in the past year and thinking a bit about just going back to the otb ...
Interestingly, Magna (Auto Parts Division) was mentioned today as a possible
purchaser of Chrysler.
I went from disliking Frank Stronach to thinking that he was the only
individual who could turn NY Racing around. Unfortunately the dynamic free
spending visionary always must answer to the shareholders. In the end Frankstro
should have been happy with a major oval in California and a major oval in
Florida, but he tried to have it all. He went into a no-win situation in
Michigan and, er ... he didn\'t win. And now after pouring a good deal of cash
into Laurel, Maryland voters/politicians won\'t let him have slots.
Tough business. Laurel (Pimlico) and Hawthorne both discussed recently in terms
of \"needing slots to survive\". Will Saratoga, Del Mar and Keeneland end up as
the only \"stand-alone\" racetracks?
Stange that 2 of the places which seem to be moving forward are Tampa Bay Downs
(good surface, better trainers beginning to stable there, world\'s worst
racecaller) and Oaklawn. Both are, I believe, family owned concerns. Of course
they are running short meets during desirable dates, and not assuming the cost
of much off season stabling.
Would a CD/Magna partnership be a good fit for NY? I would allow them a shot,
making 2 conditions: (a)they take on a gaming partner to run the VLTs and
administer the non- racing aspects of the facility and (b) they should be
required to retain NYRA employees who have stood their watch and gotten results.
Whoever gets to take the reins, and whenever the transition occurs, NY needs to
have a strong statute or set of regulations governing racing in this state.
Here is where it gets said that NY will have the most stringent medication
restrictions; that racing will only be conducted x days per year; that takeout
will be limited; that stall allocations will be adjusted to favor outfits with
productive stalls; that state breds will eventually be integrated into the
general horse population.
Is claustrophobic state regulation the answer? Did it work in Vegas?
sounds like both you nct & richiebee have good racing sense and definately know the situation with ny racing . private non-profit or family operated facilities make for better racing is somrthing that i\'m hearing about from alot of very knowledgable people - personally i belive a version of both models , if done right , will work fine .
imo- richiebee\'s accessment of frank , chrysler and the \"conditions \" for a mag/cd type partnership are accurate . kicking out nyra and nyra brass at this stage and juncture of the game would be an egghead move and i really don\'t see it being made by anyone .
nyra would need to be invovled for at least 2-4 years even if just only in a transitional capacity - it may be the most plausable senario to bring them along all the way .
it might be wishfull thinking on my part - but with the new administration in nys , the time and place seem right for some kind of balance to be struck with the net being better than whats there now ...
Richie, after my 7 hours at the \"New Gulfstream\", I\'m absolutely convinced Frank Stronach needs to stick to Auto Parts. Outiside of his field, he\'s got a track record now. His past performances are clear. He runs frequently and shows early speed, but he doesnt finish well. I\'d hate to see him acquire Chrysler or any other \"American instituition\".
He was involved with the design of \"The Horse Wizard\" at Laurel.
He\'s got grandstand seating at Hallandale that is isolated from mutual tellers. So Isolated that as an afterthought he hired walk around tellers that take your bet in the same manner you order a hotdog from Portillos. The problem is that everyone and their sister gets to see you hand your money to him out in the open. Its very unseemly.
If you decide to bet at the 50 dollar windows in the Ten Palms restaurant you have to fight the doors that somehow swing out into you. Doors that should have been sliding doors, but somehow aren\'t. Then you have to fight the aisle blockers and diners milling about in the restaurant itself before fighting the same obstacles back to your seat.
In all my life, I\'ve never seen a poorer designed public facility and I know why its a poor design. Its because Stronach had too much imput and glad handed design jobs to cronies and devotees. What an unmitigated disaster.
God Save whats left of horse racing from him.
God, please take him away now. He\'s led a full life.
All those trying to get their grubby little hands on NY racing know that the racing franchise is possible entre into the profitable casino gambling world.For every pure racing business model I have seen for NY, none seem to have have any real long term profitability and growth potential for a racing operation only.
Why are so many falling over themselves to get into a mature niche-like losing business? It\'s future casinos in the Financial Capital of the world,NY.A knowledgeable gaming attorney said the price for such entre is really tough to peg but\'s its worth at least 10 times more than what it will cost the franchise winner, if not NYRA.
You can bet that the Idioticians in Albany will f--k up this very valuable state asset.
Mike
P.S. to Stronach fans-- you must kidding,no? There wasn\'t a more beautiful place to hang out in winter than Gulfstream Park and look what he\'s done to it.
Miff,
I love Gulfstream and I will not apologize for it. The old place was a nice place to hang out in a state park, picnic with the family kind of way. But as a gambling facility which is really the reason I go to the track, to gamble, it sucked.
Now at the new place, I have a table in the Ten Palms with a TV that I control, a good working space, ten short steps to the outdoors to watch the races live, a similar walk to a great balcony view of the walking ring and many flat screens within easy viewing distance to follow all the action around the country.
Thank you Frank Stronach.
Frank
Frank,
It\'s you and about 100 other people who have it good. Guess you have not been around the rest of that plant.
NC Tony
I\'ve covered every square inch of the place. Beautiful facility.
And some people think Mona Lisa was beautiful too.
NC Tony
She was a pretty nice filly.
Frank,
I respect your views and I am probably as hard core a race track gambler as you are.The whole concept of beautifying race tracks with malls, concerts and fancy restaurants will do and has done zero to improve handle and attendance.Slots/poker have helped.
Guys like Stronach do not have a clue as to what people who often bet money really want from a racetrack(they never asked). Because of in home TV, internet et al there will NEVER be the daily crowds of the years past,excepting big days,or big meets, e.g. Saratoga.
I wonder if the Magna shareholders are thanking Stronach as you are for the Ten Palms.
Mike
The US Govt can take the man with the lowest IQ on the face of the earth and make him a genius by permitting him to have a couple slot machines in his basement. Thats all it takes to take the lowest iq\'d person in society and turn them into a genius. Stronach is no different.
Slots make the man.
A regular with connections might have it good at GP....but a visitor has no chance. The employees are rude {Miami/NY attitude} Not enough comfortible seating. You couldn\'t get a spot in that restaurant you go to on weekends even if you were the first person on the grounds and every carrol is taken in the Silks room by 11:00 am.
\"The whole concept of beautifying race tracks with malls, concerts and fancy restaurants will do and has done zero to improve handle and attendance. Slots/poker have helped.
Guys like Stronach do not have a clue as to what people who often bet money really want from a racetrack(they never asked). Because of in home TV, internet et al there will NEVER be the daily crowds of the years past,excepting big days,or big meets, e.g. Saratoga\"
If this is true (and I believe it is also), it makes no sense to have so many racetracks all over the country. There should be a handful of racetracks that do draw large crowds (Saratoga, Del Mar, Keeneland etc...) and a few other high quality meets in NY, CA, FL and KY etc... Most of the rest of the tracks should be closed and simulcasting/casino type facilities should be built in their place. If the profits are in slots, restaurants, shopping or whatever else, why are we keeping racetracks open that are a drain on those profitable ventures and wasting tons of valuable real estate?
I haven\'t been to the new GP yet, but why make it a \"horseplayer\'s\" paradise if so few are going to show up to play horses?
I miss they way horse racing used to be. Even Aqu used to pack them in on the weekend if there was a decent race. But unless some of the other issues that have lead to declining attendance are addressed, I think it\'s a monumental waste to build great racing facilities that no one comes to.
Perhaps you are right. But Gulfsteam Park {including the backstretch facilities} and the surrounding training facilities are a dream come true for the horseman.....it is just horrible for the patron unless you happen to be one of \"the hundred\" that has dibs on the right spaces. This is the flagship track for the State of Florida! I personally think it is a terrible shame for the betting public and the fans who come to the venue to experience why people like the game so much. Certainly the lack of amenities and personal space for the people who put money through the windows on site is a design nightmare. Worse yet the management doesn\'t seem to care. GP is merely a slot heaven and a track that has been reduced to a being a place for the simulcast players around the world. They will never get the Breeder\'s Cup there again if the board of directors reviews the capacity constraints. Think how much the community loses $$$ by not having that huge Fall weekend! Airline travel, hotels, employee salaries, track wages, local restaurants, rental cars, bars and souveniers.
Frank you\'re obviously a plant. Probably a Gulfstream shill plugging for an abject failure of a facility.
The only decent seats in the house are the Ten Palms window tables with a betting terminal. To my knowledge, (And I didn\'t check, because I seriously doubt I will ever return), those tables cannot be season pass reserved. If they can be season pass reserved, it will be very expensive since they are set up for at least six diners for the buffet. Even if they can be reserved, the window tables are few and far between and not nearly sufficient to accomodate more than a handful of bettors. Two weeks prior to the FOY they were sold out. If you can reserve one for a big card, you better reserve it early. If you can\'t get the table, don\'t even bother going, unless you arrive just as the gates open and can stake out a table trackside.
One day soon a horse will kill itself in the tragically small walking ring. Cement planters line the inner perimeter of the ridiculously tight and small \"path\" and a horse or jockey will soon have a crushed skull as a result of the poor design. Its so tragically tight, I could see a spectator killed or maimed there and when it happens expect an enormous lawsuit to follow. Frank Stronach deserves to be sued for the abomination he created. Let him hire attorneys.
If Frank Stronach were president he would be impeached for the insult that he created at Hallandale. To think fans of the game lost the accessibility that was for the nonsense that exists is akin to an assault upon those that love the sport.
I\'m not sure of the status of Hialeah, but to my mind now is the time for Brunetti to give it one last shot. In my opinion, Hialeah could now compete with that offense upon the bettors at Hallandale.
The horse gods are not pleased and there will be a reckoning for Mr. Stronach.
I would have guessed that GP had enough going for it to be included in the Saratoga, Del Mar, Keeneland category of vacation/racing spots that draw large crowds. So maybe the new facility \"is\" a disaster. In a more general sense though, I believe the industry needs to downsize to fit the demand for live racing.
Hialeah is dead and isn\'t coming back (and who wants it with 30% takeout) but otherwise I agree.
The industry is downsizing everywhere you look---what was the latest new track that was built with room for tens of thousands of people? Arlington after the fire? It\'s not a matter of downsizing because everyone is or has, but downsizing to 100 people kills any chances of having people show up for live racing. Which they don\'t care about, because they have slots. Which is the point.
simucasting is where its gonna be. like japan.
Guys:
All of the previously mentioned points are valid. I\'ve been attending the races @ Gulfstream since 1989 as both a fan and owner (had access for years to a owners box on the finish line, right behind Paul Houning). Unfortunately, those days are LONG GONE!
The \'new and improved\' Gulfstream was built for one thing and one thing only...SLOT $ (and maybe, in someone\'s misguided fantasy, \'entertainment $\'s)
Having less than 900 clubhouse seats is evidence of that. There is practically no chance of getting these seats (without either being a trainer or owner of a horse running that day), particularly on a weekend. Even running a horse on the FOY or Fla. Derby days will not guarantee getting one of these seats.
Either we (either as fans or horsemen) adapt, at least to this specific venue, or we are forced to stay home with HRTV/TVG and our telephone accounts.
Personally, as I live in NY, I hope that the \'knowledgable\' folks (and I use the term loosely) involved with the potential sale of the NYRA franchise realize and learn from the significant errors Magna made with the \'new\' Gulfstream