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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: fkach on January 12, 2007, 10:31:23 AM

Title: Suspended Trainers
Post by: fkach on January 12, 2007, 10:31:23 AM
Anyone else notice that a few of Todd Pletcher\'s horses haven\'t run up to expectations in NY since he has been suspended?  

Too early to tell anything, but I don\'t think taking a short price based on the expectation of an almost certain solid or improved effort is a very prudent idea right now.  

f.kach
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: shanahan on January 12, 2007, 10:44:19 AM
can someone identify his assistants by name for me?  thank you...
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: fkach on January 12, 2007, 11:31:53 AM
In NY it is Seth Benzel.

f.kach
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: Wrongly on January 12, 2007, 01:48:16 PM
http://www.toddpletcherracing.com/

Anthony Sciametta at Gulfstream (9 2-1-0 22%)
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: beyerguy on January 13, 2007, 01:44:48 AM
http://thoroughbredtimes.net/national-news/2007/January/12/Sadler-Cerin-face-medication-complaints-in-California.aspx

You can add John Sadler and Vladimir Cerin to the list.
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers & dr. allday
Post by: shanahan on January 13, 2007, 07:07:10 AM
just listened to his radio segment...who would he be treating in New ORleans today?
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: fkach on January 14, 2007, 12:13:38 PM
Story on Pletcher

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=553660&category=SPORTS&BCCode=&newsdate=1/14/2007
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: marcus on January 15, 2007, 11:51:41 AM
very interesting read(s) + thanks for the link(s) everyone . a few questions come to mind though -  do i belive the grain of salt theory  or do i belive the performance-enhancer in racehorse theory  that were addressed in the timesunion article and seem to be in conflict with one another .  also , and i really don\'t have a solid opinion about this , but  the timeframe starting aug \'04 seems long and the process  feels like it move\'s  s-l-o-w  .
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: whodoctorwho on January 17, 2007, 05:44:43 PM
The excuses for positive drug results by trainers and/or their lawyers are getting way out of hand.  Surely, they must think that when they cover their eyes, we will not be able to see.  "Inadvertent exposure to a medication from an unknown source" is as good as it gets.  The trainer and his team are responsible for the amount of drug in the horse's system.

No positive drug result is expressed as the amount of drug present.  It is always expressed as "concentration" - amount of drug per unit volume of either urine or blood.  For example, when a trainer barks that the horse only had 1.6 nanograms of drug present that could not be further from the truth. In fact, the real result was more like 1.6 ng/mL (1.6 nanograms of drug/mL of urine).

This is not an insignificant amount.  Over a 24-hour period a horse probably passes more than 5 liters of urine.  One liter is 1,000 mL.
If one assumes that the excretion of a drug is constant over a 24-hour period, this implies that the horse will pass 8,000 nanograms of the drug.  That is not "a grain of salt in Lake Saratoga".

Remember, we have no clue as to how much drug was originally given. Likewise, we do not know when it was given - how long before the drug test.  

Todd Pletcher is a very good trainer with a talented organization and they are entrusted with talented horseflesh.  When the crew attempts to administer a drug too close to race time in order to get the maximum performance for the race they are responsible for the mistake.  The drug may be legal for training, but not for racing.  The trainer is responsible.
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: miff on January 18, 2007, 07:19:04 AM
Whodoctor,

Not sure I understand.Isn\'t the only relevant issue is how much of the drug was present at race time? Does it alter a horses performance if he HAD a gizillion nanos some time before but not at race time?

Mike
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: marcus on January 18, 2007, 08:26:26 AM
whodoctorwho , the timeunion.com article was a nice public relations ploy as i might have suspected  . i\'m a far cry from a vet - but i\'m guessing that drug excretion rates in horses are  reasonbly contstant \"with-in ranges\" .

we will never know for sure the nanogram levels that may have been present in the horse shortly after the drug is given or even at post time .

one thing for sure  is that trainer will learn the value of having a good reputation and a good name . the  \"inadvertent exposure to a medication from an unknown source\" story really is about as good as it gets ...
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: bobphilo on January 18, 2007, 03:38:21 PM
Right you are Marcus. The article indeed seems like a pr piece consisting of testimonials to Pletcher\'s character by a bunch of people who depend on him for their livelihood, including a jockey who wants to continue riding for him.
It doesn\'t deal at all with the absurd excuse offered up by Pletcher that his horse must have inhaled the substance from the breath of a nearby horse. Very poor journalism indeed.

Bob
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: marcus on January 18, 2007, 07:21:31 PM
hi bob -  the link wrongly posted , the timesunion \"article\" and the poststar.com link that papachach posted today on the \"anybody live near saratoga\" thread ( along w/ all opinions on related subject matter expressed in the media and here on this board ) really has made something click upstairs this afternoon -  either there is  unawareness or indifference  to the present state of racing by many in the racing community .

also , lessons learned by the non-profit org approach to ny racing need to be applied  when a decision is made on the empire group .
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: NoCarolinaTony on January 18, 2007, 07:40:04 PM
So do you think if no one in the racing industry gives a flying flip....then why should anyone outside the industry care? It\'s a sad state of affairs for racing.

NC Tony
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: marcus on January 18, 2007, 08:05:38 PM
yeah nct - it is a sad state of affairs alright , but i belive that most in the industry do care about things . i guess it just isn\'t going  down in ny the way it did in so cal and thats ok - it\'s just needs more time and process ( or rigamoroll ) to go through here i guess , but with the bankruptcy you got to wonder and keep your fingers crossed that good decisions will be made for ny racing - whatever they are  ...
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: ditz on January 19, 2007, 05:09:58 AM
Whats sad about the state of Ny racing to me ,is the condition of the top trainers thoroughbreds.I have had numerous opportunities to see horses belonging to these top stables during morning works,and to see just how cripple some (most) are at that hour of training and then to see the magic of them winning at racetime,certainly makes the reality of  blocks,pain medication,and race enhancing drugs a reality.They are putting the lives of these  thoroughbreds ,and jockeys at risk of terrible consequenses.These trainers and vets need to be accountable,immediatly ,not after months and months of appeals.Also  saw  that the clockers ,on many occasions,don\'t get proper horse ,or proper time.So although this is not a political forum,there are many factors going on that affect those trying to handicap unknowing all the correct facts.And I promise this  will be the last I have to post on this subject as I know this is a handicapping forum,but its hard not to respond to some of these posts of \"suspended trainers\"I wonder though what the break down ratio is of those in traning and running at  the Hong Kong circuit,I have a feeling with no drug policy  it is alot less then here in NY.
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: marcus on January 19, 2007, 11:11:00 AM
ditz ,  your post\'s seem well teathered to me and definately have a handicappers orientation  ... your point\'s are appreciated and well taken .

i\'ve often thought about going to aqu early myself to see those works outs etc  and looking at sheets for today\'s 7th race at santa anita made me think of what you said about watching some of those workouts becouse in that field ( and i could be wrong about this but ) there seems to be Alot of horses working through some kind of physical issues ...
Title: Re: Suspended Trainers
Post by: shanahan on January 19, 2007, 03:58:39 PM
right you are....play an DD 6/579.