I vote for Alysheba. \"Well I get knocked down, but I get up again\".
Your vote?
Thunder Gultch ;)~
John
MO Wrote:
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> I vote for Alysheba. \"Well I get knocked down, but
> I get up again\".
>
> Your vote?
Alysheba\'s Derby would have to be a finalist.
What about Monarchos explosive move in 2001? That one was visually impressive.
Or Grindstone\'s grind it out nose on the line wide against Cavonnier in 1996?
I thought one of the guttiest losing Derby\'s I ever saw was Easy Goer slipping and sliding and fighting the goo all the way in 1989 while finding a way to stay close.
Barbaro\'s was a good effort too. He\'s a good horse and is going to be formidable. Some are ducking the Preakness and will attempt to ambush him in the Belmont. You gotta hate that.
My top Five from the last two decades:
1. Alysheba
2. Barbaro
3. Fusaichi Pegasus
4. Monarchos (Cha Ching!)
5. Sea Hero
Alysheba is one of my all time favorite horses.---Jett
Easy Goer was close.....to running 3rd. He barely held off stablemate Awe Inspiring for second. He never realistically threatened Sunday Silence.
I think Unbridled gets overlooked. This was a horse who won the two biggest races in North America in 1990 and somehow wasn\'t Horse of the Year. Criminal Type won it. Now THAT\'S criminal.
JJP Wrote:
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>>
> I think Unbridled gets overlooked. This was a
> horse who won the two biggest races in North
> America in 1990 and somehow wasn\'t Horse of the
> Year. Criminal Type won it. Now THAT\'S criminal.
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at 05/10/06 04:49PM by
> JJP.
That\'s a tough one JJP. Unbridled did win the Derby & BC Classic, but his only other wins that year (from 11 starts) were the Fla. Derby & an AP allowance race.
Criminal Type won the San Pasqual, San Antonio, Pimlico Special, Met Mile (over Housebuster & Easy Goer), Hollywood Gold Cup & Whitney. The last 4 were Gr1. He certainly had the credentials.
I see two truly great Derby runs since \'86 - Unbridled and Barbaro. No doubt about Alysheba\'s courage, but it\'s difficult to tell how fast he would have gone without the trouble. I don\'t think he would have been there with Barbaro. Monarchos ran fast, but his run was set up so perfectly. I think a number of three year olds over the past twenty years could have done what he did that day. Smarty was also good, but with the weak field and awful track condition, it\'s difficult to judge just how fast the 10f was run that day. I\'d take 3/5 on Barbaro head to head with Smarty at 10f.
The results will stand ( I think ) unless Barbaro wins the Triple Crown ...
I didn\'t see the \'86 Derby and indeed \'06 will be remembered in history as well , but that may be where the similarities between the 2 races begin and end .
It\'s hard to compare what happened this year to any other years , the result was an anomily in \'06 . The winning effort and trip was set up by , and function of , so many horse\'s that were faster coming into the race all running poorly .
And , though I don\'t know what kind of figure Barbaro earned in the Derby ( my guess is he ran a little less than a 3 pt top ) , as Jerry pointed out in a posting recently that the 3 yo\'s are bouncing of tops this year , 3-5 in the Preakness should be out of the question ...
Michael D. Wrote:
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> I\'d take
> 3/5 on Barbaro head to head with Smarty at 10f.
Interesting. Apparently you\'d accept a lot shorter vs. the horses he\'s about to face in the Preakness. That is unless you think they are Smarty\'s equal.
Of course the Preakness is only 9 and a half poles. Still, How low will you go?
1-5?
I won\'t accept 3-5 on Barbaro in the Preakness and thats without the Belmont ambushers even being in there.
I\'m gonna make Barbaro do it again. He had a few breaks in the Derby. I want to see him prove big wins vs. this crop is really in his repetoire and then I\'ll consider discussing where he stands with some of the greats. Lets see him come back in two weeks and fire like the great ones do.
clown,
you\'re twisting and tangling the derby and preakness as if they are the same race. they\'re not. some horses run drastically different in those two races.
start again.
Michael D. Wrote:
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> clown,
>
> you\'re twisting and tangling the derby and
> preakness as if they are the same race. they\'re
> not. some horses run drastically different in
> those two races.
>
> start again.
Mike, I think its possible that you mismichaeled Barbaro a bit is all. Smarty isn\'t in this next race so we can\'t really go there. That matchup will never occur, but since you were quite eager to project in regard to a fictional race, don\'t you think applying a little reality to the scenario makes for a more objective intellectual debate in regard to your opinion? Don\'t you think there were quite a few that read your post and thought, \"Wow, hes joking right? and if hes serious, what will he accept on this horse in his next race or two against this crop?...2-5?.....1-5?....how low will he go?\"
You\'re response indicates you weren\'t joking. So we can start there.
I can\'t project what you\'d take in the Preakness, Belmont or Travers upon Barbaro against non Smartys. But the field will be set for the Preakness soon. Maybe you don\'t have 3-5 confidence for that race. If not, \"Be Like Mike\" and let her rip by telling us the next race you\'d take 3-5 or less upon Barbaro. That is unless what you\'re saying is that your statement was restricted to Barbaro with the same 3 wide trip over a track with a dead rail the day before vs. Smarty on his sloppy Derby trip. In other words, that your statement has no bearing upon how Barbaro stacks up with this years crop. If thats what you meant, thats getting kind of speculative isn\'t it? Then again, maybe you consider others in this crop superior to Smarty too or that the exact 10 pole distance is critical to your analysis of fictional races. Or that Churchill Downs itself is critical for the fictional race analysis.
So with all due respect, maybe we can impart a little here and now to this debate and maybe you\'ll let us know. I\'d say the ball is in your court Mike.
\"Just do it\"
over/under on the amount of hours bozo spent thinking about this one: seven
you took what i said, and you responded with: \"Interesting. Apparently you\'d accept a lot shorter vs. the horses he\'s about to face in the Preakness. That is unless you think they are Smarty\'s equal.\"
wrong. i might like barbaro more or less going 9.5f at pim than 10f at CD. i think you understand it a bit better now. well done.
you made a simple mistake in logic. it\'s ok. nobody hates you. keep your head up.
I\'ll take the over.
Michael D. Wrote:
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> over/under on the amount of hours bozo spent
> thinking about this one: seven
>
Actually Mike, I spent about 10 minutes in writing. In fact I begain writing shortly after a previous post if your counting.
> you made a simple mistake in logic. it\'s ok.
> nobody hates you. keep your head up.
>
Clearly there was a mistake in logic and you were insightful enough to realize it was a logical exercise and that counts in your favor. However, the logical mistake was not mine. I know, because I rarely lapse upon logic.