The time has finally arrived.
We need split divisions. Another words Two Kentucky Derbies on the First Saturday in May. Twice as good, Twice as fun. You know the theme.
There are just too many horses/owners who deserve a shot, deserve the thrill. This year there may be as many as 30 horses who could give it a go, but will not because of an arcane broken graded earnings rule.
Tell me who should get first run a horse with $50K in domestic graded earnings or a horse with none. Please see the top of the list before you answer. How about a horse with primarily two year old graded earnings vs ones earned at three. How about an improving horse with none at all.
The field size could be limited to 15 horses in each division and run back-to-back. There could be a seeding process done by a group of select handicappers (potential gamblers....need to rethink that one). But you would have Brother Derek in one field, Lawyer Ron in another. Bob and John gets a two seed so does Barbaro. More debate on who got screwed in their seed. Which field is tougher.
Instead of a race with 15 speed horses like this year, we could have 7 or so in each. The debate of who is better would continue right on thru to the Preakness. The chances of a horse gunning for the Triple Crown Belmont Day would be greatly increased.
Think of the wagering possibilites. Twin Trifectas, Twin Supers. Derby/Derby Double. The handle would be off the charts.
People who think outside the box are open minded to new ideas. Those who don\'t get bogged down in something called Tradition
Silver Charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The time has finally arrived.
>
> We need split divisions. Another words Two
> Kentucky Derbies on the First Saturday in May.
> Twice as good, Twice as fun. You know the theme.
>
> There are just too many horses/owners who deserve
> a shot, deserve the thrill. This year there may be
> as many as 30 horses who could give it a go, but
> will not because of an arcane broken graded
> earnings rule.
>
> Tell me who should get first run a horse with $50K
> in domestic graded earnings or a horse with none.
> Please see the top of the list before you answer.
> How about a horse with primarily two year old
> graded earnings vs ones earned at three. How about
> an improving horse with none at all.
>
> The field size could be limited to 15 horses in
> each division and run back-to-back. There could be
> a seeding process done by a group of select
> handicappers (potential gamblers....need to
> rethink that one). But you would have Brother
> Derek in one field, Lawyer Ron in another. Bob and
> John gets a two seed so does Barbaro. More debate
> on who got screwed in their seed. Which field is
> tougher.
>
> Instead of a race with 15 speed horses like this
> year, we could have 7 or so in each. The debate of
> who is better would continue right on thru to the
> Preakness. The chances of a horse gunning for the
> Triple Crown Belmont Day would be greatly
> increased.
>
> Think of the wagering possibilites. Twin
> Trifectas, Twin Supers. Derby/Derby Double. The
> handle would be off the charts.
>
> People who think outside the box are open minded
> to new ideas. Those who don\'t get bogged down in
> something called Tradition
Until the last paragraph you were beginning to piss me off.
There is only 1 Kentucky Derby. Anyone arguing for decreasing the size of the field is arguing for minimization of what already is a small and elite group of horses. They are arguing for depriving deserving horses of a chance at what the laurels of the Kentucky Derby bring. Theres breeding considerations, awards, recognition, reknown, monetary opportunity, just to name a few.
The graded stakes requirement put a premium upon horses being entered which can repeat efforts and earn enough to qualify. These earnings requirements require a certain amount of soundness of the horse, which hopefully a Kentucky Derby winner passes onto his progeny. It may even force the breeders to try and breed a better animal. Theres no shortcuts to the Kentucky Derby even with a 20 horse field. Theres several decent horses on the outside looking in because their connections wanted to play \"Save the horse for the big day.\" Of course the problem with that is if you dodge, duck, hide and recuperate for too long you may find yourself without sufficient earnings to make the big day. Strong Contenders folks have no one but themselves to blame. Either that or they have a horse that was behind the curve or gimpy when he needed to be glued together well. Next time they\'ll run at 2 and aim for bigger races sooner, breed a better horse or both.
Enough of this lightly raced horse b.s. You\'re only fooling yourself with it anyway. You can\'t dodge the competition forever.
Bring it on baby, its time for the 20 horse calvary charge.
Seeking the Chuck\'s well reasoned response to the prospect of running multiple Derby heats (titled after the poem we all had to learn in school-- \"half a league, half a league, half a league onward, into the valley of death rode the six hundred...\") has me wondering if there are more, or less, graded races for 2YOs then there were 10 years ago.
At least looking at NYRA, it seems like a lot of the 2YO stakes which were Grade III are no longer Graded...
Being \"bogged down in Tradition\" is not a bad thing when it comes to racing. The other side of that coin is Polytrack and the construction of new venues (or the restoration of old ones) which \"lose sight\" of what racing is really all about.
When they extended the baseball season and Maris hit 61 some complained but the game ended up better for the additional games, money and exposure. When they extended the NFL season, there were more 1,000 rushers but the game ended up better off for the additional games, money, and exposure. When they implemented the 3-point shot the little man was brought back into the game. The game got better.
When good horses like Sunday Break, Eddington, Rock Hard Ten and Strong Contender can not get into the Derby because of an earnings issue, I have a problem with it. When someone who won the Hollywood Juvenile last summer has more money and gets in first, I have a problem with it. When someone with a Stakes win in a Dubai Made-for-TV Race gets in I have a problem with it. When good horses like Stephen Got Even or Noble Causeway get crushed in the first turn of a twenty horse log jam, I have a problem with it. When field size dictates pace, I have a problem with it. When a true Mile and a Quarter horse from Europe can\'t ship over because he can\'t run the risk of not getting in, I have a problem it. When quality owners like John Oxley, Mike Pegram, West Point, Aaron Jones and Lapenta can\'t get in with decent horses and be a part of the Derby something is wrong.
Two fifteen horse fields are safer and extended the experience, not water it down. The Derby rush job isn\'t such an issue. Last years 3 YO Champ did not win the Derby. Two two minute sessions in bed with Cindy Crawford are better than one.
Let Watchmaker and Marty McGee seed both fields. Their neutral.
Silver Charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When they extended the baseball season and Maris
> hit 61 some complained but the game ended up
> better for the additional games, money and
> exposure. When they extended the NFL season, there
> were more 1,000 rushers but the game ended up
> better off for the additional games, money, and
> exposure. When they implemented the 3-point shot
> the little man was brought back into the game. The
> game got better.
>
> When good horses like Sunday Break, Eddington,
> Rock Hard Ten and Strong Contender can not get
> into the Derby because of an earnings issue, I
> have a problem with it. When someone who won the
> Hollywood Juvenile last summer has more money and
> gets in first, I have a problem with it. When
> someone with a Stakes win in a Dubai Made-for-TV
> Race gets in I have a problem with it. When good
> horses like Stephen Got Even or Noble Causeway get
> crushed in the first turn of a twenty horse log
> jam, I have a problem with it. When field size
> dictates pace, I have a problem with it. When a
> true Mile and a Quarter horse from Europe can\'t
> ship over because he can\'t run the risk of not
> getting in, I have a problem it. When quality
> owners like John Oxley, Mike Pegram, West Point,
> Aaron Jones and Lapenta can\'t get in with decent
> horses and be a part of the Derby something is
> wrong.
>
> Two fifteen horse fields are safer and extended
> the experience, not water it down. The Derby rush
> job isn\'t such an issue. Last years 3 YO Champ did
> not win the Derby. Two two minute sessions in bed
> with Cindy Crawford are better than one.
>
> Let Watchmaker and Marty McGee seed both fields.
> Their neutral.
In the beginning...
back in 1875.
Man didn\'t know about the three point shot...
and all that Jive.
The white man owned the horses...
The black man rode them too.
No one knew what they was gonna do,
But, M. Lewis Clark had the news
He said, \"Let there be horses,\"
There was horses
\"Let there be crowds,\"
There was crowds
\"Let there be Julips,\"
There was Julips
\"Let there be betting,\"
There was betting.
\"Owwwwweeeeee, LET FIELDS BE LARGE!!!!\"\"
And it came to pass,
That the Kentucky Derby was born
All across the land, every bettin man,
Was cappin up a storm
And the figure man got famous,
and the bloodstock man got rich
And in every barn, there was a superstar,
With a seven-year itch
There were fifteen million bettors,
Learnin\' how to play
And you could hear those bettors talkin\',
And this is what they had to say:
\"Let there be horses...\"
\"crowds...\"
\"Julips...\"
\"Betting...\"
\"Owwweeeeeh, LET FIELDS BE LARGE!\"
One night on a site called the Thorograph,
There was a tradition tinkering psychopath
But the Derby was good and the fans they were loud,
And Chuckles turned and he said to the crowd:
\"LET FIELDS BE LARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGEEEEEE\"
Silver you gotta be kidding....lol
Chuckles Scott
you\'ve won me over
that is classic.See if you can come up with one for Problem Child.
I saw Bon and the boys at the Palladium in NYC in 78 with UFO
rangers94 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chuckles Scott
> you\'ve won me over
> that is classic.See if you can come up with one
> for Problem Child.
> I saw Bon and the boys at the Palladium in NYC in
> 78 with UFO
>
Great Band. The best they ever were was with him. Johnson had/has great vocal power, but Scott wrapped himself in the song.
Jerry already considers me a Problem Child, how about a remake of Whole Lotta Rosie? Tentative title \"Whole Lotta Horsey\"
Chuckles I just finished dinner and had TWO pieces of Kentucky Fried Chicken prepared by Yum Brands instead of one. One wasn\'t enough, I\'m full now.
>Silver you gotta be kidding....lol
OK the Watchmaker, Marty McGee seeding part was a joke. Let Battaglia do it.
If Churchill had a course with a stretch as wide and as long as they have in Japan, I would be all for a 35 horse field. Since they do not we need Two Divisions not one. Good horses and good owners should not be getting shut out.
Hey Rangers94
Whats that gagging sound I\'m hearing down at the Garden?
How about heats like they run w/quarter horses?!
We could have 4 heats ,say in Cal,Ky,Fla,and Ar. We could even call them derbies and take the top 4 finishers of each heat.
If an animal comes up sick or an owner decides not to go(ma-chois),we can do graded earnings.
Silver,
You make a lot of good points. But they only play 1 Super Bowl, not 2. 1 World Series, not 2. Thats why they have League/Conference Championship games. The best qualify. Splitting into 2 heats cheapens the accomplishment. Should they have 2 Daytona 500s because they have too many cars??
The problem is the Graded Earnings qualification. It makes no sense whatsoever. Perhaps a racing panel could rank horses based on a variety of factors: graded stakes placings, average placings in Graded 3YO races, etc.. I\'m sure you guys can come up with some other factors.
However, based on the current qualifications, if you can\'t get enough money to get into the Top 20 thats like not winning your Championship game.
You only last 2 minutes?? I\'d rather have one 4 minute session. If you only last 2 minutes, I doubt she would give you 2 more.
Chuckles,
Its late and I\'m ready to go to sleep.
Now I have AC/DC rocking in my head. Thanks a lot.
>But they only play 1 Super Bowl, not 2. 1 World Series, not 2. Thats why they >have League/Conference Championship games. The best qualify. Splitting into 2 >heats cheapens the accomplishment. Should they have 2 Daytona 500s because they >have too many cars??
Yes you are correct but they also expanded their playoff formats so more teams got in and got a chance to win. They do not have two Daytona 500\'s but they did add a another race in July that is essentially the same. The fans wanted more, they got it.
The system of elimination allows them to give everyone a chance and whittle things down. A horse who is peaking at the perfect time may be on the outside looking in Derby Day. (See Sinister Minister) What happens when the day comes when Japan ships a dozen runners over with more Graded earnings. That is the day when Frank Stronach runs a another race at one his tracks on the same day called The Great American Derby.
Now I know why she never called me in the first place........
At this point i just want to see them get healthy
and take out the Devils like they always do in the playoffs
First, most Japanese horses wouldn\'t qualify because they run in restricted races. International Cataloguing Standards does not recognize races restricted to Japanese-bred horses as group stakes in the sense that they would qualify runners for the Derby.
Second, running two Derbies, while a fun exercise in identifying what is wrong with the current qualifying system (a la Swift\'s \"A Modest Proposal\") is never going to happen, nor do I really think that anyone would want to see it happen. Everyone knows the qualifying method.
Knowing SC, the Swift analogy is apt.
I would suggest one change in the current format: use a multiplier based on what grade the stake is. GI would be 3x, GII 2x, GI 1x. That way the Dubai race would not be a free shot for the the second and third finishers.
Of course, they could always triple the purse...
By the way, I\'m starting to form the opinion that horses aren\'t at a disadvantage because they winter in Dubai, but might be because they travel here right on top of the race. I\'m just starting to feel okay, and I\'ve heard others say it takes a month.
Meanwhile, what\'s the price that 20 or less enter the race? Several figure to drop out after last weekend, and a couple will probably break down over the next couple of weeks.
First casualty today...not suprisingly FIRST SAMURAI is off the trail.
Good Luck,
Joe B.