just one guy\'s opinion. i welcome others (silver charm?)
the outdoor walking ring area (including the two overlooking balconies) is a great place to sit back and do some handicapping while getting an up close look at the horses. can\'t watch them saddle, a mistake in my opinion, but with the mini stadium, you still get a better look at the horses than you do at most other tracks.
decent amount of outdoor tables and two huge picnic areas (not yet completed).
nice indoor simulcast area, although those damn horse wizard tables just waste space.
flat screens everywhere, with every track in the country. if you like wandering around, getting a good look at the horses, and getting in some good simulcasting action, you\'ve come to the right place.
virtually no grandstand/clubhouse bleacher seating. if you enjoy watching the races live with your binocs from a few levels up, you\'re out of luck.
if you want to spend some money and watch the races in a nice bar area or a
restaurant, you will love this place.
as for the racing - the best ever in so fla. there has never been a better collection of quality horses in the area. the main issue is the 9f dirt layout. they have carded a lot of nice 9f races, but they are losing quality three year olds to other tracks. time to address that issue. i also think the turf course is too hard, but that will change over the years.
finances are another issue, but everyone in the biz is hurting. let\'s see how the numbers look in a few years.
i\'ve heard people say there isn\'t enough outdoor space. there is plenty of outdoor table/picnic bench seating, and the outdoor walking ring area is nice, but they definitely substituted bar/restaurant areas and outdoor private boxes for general outdoor bleacher seating. the average fan loses here.
if we can get four or five of these complexes in the mix, without touching the old classics (no pimlico was never a classic, meaning the likes of the spa and keeneland), i would be happy.
Michael I will repost here since you asked. The other string came up this morning and I have been to busy to respond until now and I guess you were bringing up your string at the same time.
Regarding the Paddock view its nice but its not Del Mar. Lacks three things Del Mar has, not enough space, grass or silicon. Does have Del Mar beat in the Blue Hair department.
Otherwise a lot of what you say is true.
>Do not know enough about the kickback to comment but one thing I did hear Gary say, between jumping back and forth from telecasts, was that Brother Derek was his pick for the Derby. Other than I guess Watchmaker someone not afraid to stick his neck out. And guess what guys you can still change your opinion.
>From what I could tell both telecasts were very good and my hats off to Mike Pegram. A guy I have always respected when given the choice between the old traditional small purse trophy at the old traditional track or a boatload of cash, regardless of where he has to go, will take the money everytime. How many zeros and commas does tradition have in it?
>Stevens opinion is not to be taken lightly. Here is another intelligent and highly qualified opinion to see the place firsthand and probably leave shaking his head. (My words not his) The crowd of 11,800 was only 2,000 more than what they drew at Tampa for Tampa Derby Day.
>Stronach came on the air after the Pan American victory and said be patient they were going to be putting in more seating. A stainless steel uncovered bleacher that is like sitting on a hot waffle iron will not cut it.
>I spoke with Boston Barry this morning who said he arrived at 11:00AM fried in sun, had no place to sit, stood in long lines and got totally cleaned until the last at Penn Nat\'l, around midnight.
>TGJB I thought I read once you said that Ro Parro, your #1 client, was one of the top executives at Dell. I heard the CEO Kevin Rollins recently in an interview on Bloomberg and the questioner asked him that early on his dissenters said he was aloof, arrogant, just a tough guy to work for and deal with. The questioner asked him what he had done to change that, which he admitted he has, and his response was very simple. Rollins said I listen more.
>Frank are you listening.
Michael,
Did you bother to try to sit out there?
I\'ve had quite a few friends tell me 1) they had to be there when the gates open to get a seat. 2) Had to run to get the table once the gates opened. And fried from the sun as the sun moved thoughout the day.
The sports book area and the restaurants were nice. But geez what a waste of money.
NC Tony
Michael I reread your post and it is amazing how perspective makes one feel
1.) can\'t watch them saddle, a mistake in my opinion,
2.)two huge picnic areas (not yet completed).
3.) although those damn horse wizard tables just waste space.
4.) flat screens everywhere, with every track in the country. if you like wandering around, getting a good look at the horses, and getting in some good simulcasting action, you\'ve come to the right place.
5.) virtually no grandstand/clubhouse bleacher seating. if you enjoy watching the races live with your binocs from a few levels up, you\'re out of luck.
6.) the main issue is the 9f dirt layout. they have carded a lot of nice 9f races, but they are losing quality three year olds to other tracks. time to address that issue.
7.) i also think the turf course is too hard, but that will change over the years.
8.) finances are another issue, but everyone in the biz is hurting. let\'s see how the numbers look in a few years.
9.) i\'ve heard people say there isn\'t enough outdoor space. there is plenty of outdoor table/picnic bench seating, and the outdoor walking ring area is nice, but they definitely substituted bar/restaurant areas and outdoor private boxes for general outdoor bleacher seating. the average fan loses here.
Most of your responses are pointing out mistakes or failure on the part of mgmt to make it right the first time. They can still change some of these things however. In response to NC Tony I would be curious if you went on Saturday because my source Boston Barry told me it was so crowded item number 4 was out. There was no moving around and watching a little of this a little of that. Too many people and yet the crowd was only 11,800.
I looked at Magna\'s Financial Filings and of the $100M in losses 35M was Depr and another 35M was Interest on his debt service. Not the end of the of the world. The Interest piece can be overcome with more operating cash but that takes customers.
Ooooooops forgot to put in enough space for them.
Also do not think that the vicinity of the Palm Meadows facility gives him a big leg up. Ocala is not that much further away from Tampa and the facilities in Ocala are much better. There are plenty of good people in the industry who have a vested interest in this and can help Stronach. He needs to listen to them. When its all done and said they can let him take all the credit and say it was his original idea in the first place.
He is the visionary........right?
i was there this w/e Silver. you can\'t move around at saratoga on travers day, and you can\'t take one step at keeneland on blue grass day without bumping into someone. a lot of people were there for the first time on saturday, and you enter the place right at the paddock area, so that\'s were people congregated. once the two huge areas on either side of the building are completed, the crowd will even out...
i did get a table Tony, but I was there early.
appreciate the opinions guys. the place has problems, but remember what kind of weather they got last fall when trying to get things finished. i\'ll judge it at the end of the \'07 meet.
Michael,
I was there back in February as a guest. Sat in the VIP section of the sports book. Was treated first class allthe way. So I had not issue. It was sad in a way though, because I eneded up being inside watching the races on TV vs live.
It\'s certainly designed with a simulcast feel to the place. It was not designed with Live Racing in mind, in my opinion. The sadling area is cramped and the walking ring seemed contrived to me.
Yes Sar and Kee and extremely cramped on Bluegrass or Travers day, but on the ohter hand you might bump into something nice!!!
Saratoga does not have all the comforts of home, but it does have ambiance, which I think Mr Stronach forgot to include in his current design.
NC Tony
A few comments regarding the \'new Gulfstream Park\':
I attended the races there from Thursday 3/30 through Saturday\'s Fla. Derby card and had the good fortune of having 4 of the seats overlooking the track for all 3 days.
Let me preface my comments by mentioning that I have been going to GP since 1988, have owned horses that raced there and have attended every Fla. Derby (except 2005) since then. I have also had the opportunity to share an owner\'s box on the finish line since 1995.
A few observations:
- This is a slot/poker/simulcast facilty. Period! (It just happens to have a racetrack in the front)
- Keeping in mind that due to Hurricane Wilma\'s impact the facility was not fully finished, I have to agree with J. Brown: the place IS a trainwreck!
- While the Clubhouse north/south \'Las Vegas style\' simulcast areas with individual desks (which I used for some of Thursday\'s card) was designed ok, this set-up was not adequate for Friday\'s card, let alone for Saturday\'s \'crowd\' (and I use this term loosely, what did they have 12,000 people?). There is nowhere near enough betting windows and the ones they did have more than half of them had $20 and $50 minimums! (a side note: I placed $60 to win on a horse at the $20 minimum teller and wanted to bet a $1.00 tri part wheel [total cost of this tri bet would have been $120], I was told that I couldn\'t bet the tri because is was in $1.00 increments, UNBELIEVABLE! I secured a desk seat for Friday and Sat with a tv and individual betting terminal (additional $10/day, added to the cost of the outside seats) to alliaviate any wagering issues which BTW, turned out to be the right decision, given the long betting lines.
- I didn\'t have an issue with the seperate saddeling enclosure but some of the horsemen have due to the fact that the horses have to walk down a rather steep ramp to the \'walking ring\'. While this set-up is ok for the patrons who are seated around the ring, it is a potential nightmare for the horsemen, particularly for a high strung 2 YO.
- Again keeping in mind that the facility isn\'t completely finished there is nowhere near enough outside picnic tables, seats, etc.
- There are plenty for bars throughout the facility (reminded me of a cruise ship, bars everywhere!)
- The horse wizards are a complete waste of time/effort/space for any handicapper, but maybe not someone who doesn\'t know anything about horseracing and might be a person who play\'s the slots ..hmmm..!
- Being one of the fortunate few who had seats the view of the track was good. The tote board and infield tv display was high quality. It\'s just that having 900 seats is an absolute joke.
Time limits me from going on. However, it is clear that this is not a racetrack experience but a racebook experience. One can get the samething by going to Vegas or an OTB that has theater seating.
Trackjohn
Tony,
I have myself not been to the new GP, but the impression I get from the posts of those that have is that it is probably a great simulcast site if there was no track nearby. It\'s also clear that it stinks for anyone wanting to see live racing.
Maybe it\'s just me, but to go somewhere and have to watch something on a TV monitor that is happening live on site seems absurd.
Bob
Stronach himself has a considerable Investment in the business, not just with the Race Track Assets he has acquired, but from all of the Farms he owns and Top Notch Stallions he stands.
So the question is with Gulfstream is he trying recruit new Poker fans, new Slots fans or new Horse Racing fans.
The current all indoors set-up will not get him anymore of the latter.
Just got back from watching the Yankees smoke the A\'s. At least it didn\'t rain.
I agree with Bob, to watch an event on a TV while its going on live at the same facility is ridiculous. Its plainly obvious that Stronach\'s vision is to create a sportsbook/slots/poker establishment. If he ever tries this crap at Santa Anita, I will never go there again.