Dear All,
I realize there are a lot more important things going on....the war in Iraq, the war in Las Vegas (NHC VII), the war on the shore, finding the missing piece of Evander Holyfield\'s ear, etc., but something just happened over at the other site that really makes me want to go postal (although not as much as the poker columnists in the DRF that suggest that Poker bad beats are worse than Horseracing bad beats). I think after all the hubbub of the NHC VII dies down, we need to band together and do something about those pagans over there once and for all (not that I have anything against pagans being one myself......it just sounds better if you say you are going to war with the pagans).
Anyway, I think it is really pretty well established (leadpipe cinch, mortal lock established) that our community over here has established itself as the critical crossroads (yes, the Robert Johnson kind, even the Citadel perhaps) of two incredibly important societal undercurrents.
We have clearly staked out the claim as the place where the Rolling Stones and Horseracing intersect. Then I go over and look at the other site and some clown (no offense to Chuckles and Crusty) named Gary Mc is posting messages about sacks of broken eggs and unmade beds!! This is just too much in itself. But, then, somebody named \"startmeup\" has the gall to pipe up, and I am ready to go postal.
Are we the epicenter of where horseracing and rolling stones meet or not! Guys, we need to rally here. I think the best thing would be to start talking about Bob Dylan and horseracing over here. I think that might shake the other guys up a bit. Anybody know whether Dylan is a horseracing fan? Does he write lyrics about horseracing? Does he like the Southern California turf racing as much as Jagger does (as per our very own Delmar Deb). After the NHC VII we can go to plan B, maybe can plot something in connection with the upcoming Sunshine Millions (which, if you will recall, generated the spurious claim (no pun intended) that somehow the ragozin sheets were responsible for the claim of Musique Toujours.....an allegation thoroughly and effectively debunked over here by yours truly).
End of rant.
Mall, good luck to you and the Mrs. in the NHC
SCM2/EM
SCM 2:
I think the biggest problem at the Ragboard Room is that their most prolific poster is named for a certain female rock performer known more for her legendary case of body odor than her vocal range. And don\'t get me \"started up\" on that particular poster (and the proprietor of the board)\'s inability to distinguish free speech from hate speech.
How great is it that those \"wrinkly rockers\" are performing at halftime of the Super Bowl?!
Combining (a) the fact that it is pretty dang cold here (minus 30 last I checked) and they are about to close my office because it is supposed to get colder (they are forecasting minus 37 which is near where the celsius and fahrenheit scales intersect) and (b) your reference to that stinky female lounge rat (god rest her soul) results in (c) making me think of a song the boys have dusted off and performed on this tour again after last performing it over 20 years ago.
The relevant verse is -- She\'s so cold, she\'s so cold I think she was born in an arctic zone. Strangely enough, I can tell you that the girls born in THIS arctic zone are more like bleeding volcanoes or the burning bush than a tombstone or an ice cream cone. Also, I do hate it when this song applies to my handicapping.
I am very enthusiastic about the boys\' upcoming halftime performance. I will also be catching them in Las Vegas on March 4, Goteborg on June 10, and St. Petersburg on June 13 (How cool will it be to see them performing Sympathy for the Devil in St.Petersburg?), so anybody else thinking of being at any of those shows, we can try to meet beforehand!
Anyway, I realize I started this string, but I have to sign off now and will not be signing back on until they let us turn our electricity back on. In the meantime, I will need to borrow a line from McCartney/Lennon and see if \"come and keep your comrade warm\" still works over here. It is becoming more and more like the USSR everyday.
Do Svidaniya to all, and oodacha to those of you in the NHC.
Lets avenge that dastardly Monkey Man theft!
just when it looked like we\'d squeeeeze thru the latest brown alert from the other board...this comes up.
the other board attacks jerry and this board retaliates by going after certain contributors.see the difference?..the attack of an individual, resulting in the assault on a benign group we don\'t even know?
took us over a week this time to fire a shot, and several messages from the owner of this site(I was so hoping the retorts would go unanswered)
GENTLEMEN THIS IS NOT OUR FIGHT
David:
You aren\'t any fun (fun = why most of us post here) when you try to be the voice of reason.
I am certainly not confrontational, but when people believe they are floating above the rest of us in a veritable airship of self righteousness, I start looking for a puncturing tool.
Look the only way to settle some of these conflicts is if we could get Stronach to sponsor the \"Manhattan Millions\", a series of races between horses purchased on the recommendations of the respective gurus, Brown and Ragozin. If somebody is buying horses based on Beyer numbers they will also be eligible to run, but since that guru de-emphasizes ground loss, the Team Beyer horses will all run from outside posts. To pique Frank\'s interest, we\'ll let him have cheerleaders wearing revealing schmatta made from shredded TG and Ragozin sheets.
If you are intent on peace and harmony, write your Congressperson and get our troops out of the Middle East.
Just for the record: we had 15 straight comments on last weeks ROTW.
The brother derek race lit up the board...and the bus is getting prepped for the road to KY.
When focused, this board turns into a trove of info.and ideas that I find very pleasurable.Thank you to all that contributed.
DR:
I appreciate your passion for purism, and your disdain for the puerile, but the reality is that there is an equal chance that Bro Derek and Stevie Wonder and any other of the now horses will end up at Rood and Riddle as opposed to the starting gate at Churchill for the Derby.
Richiebee,
I agree that the outcome of the San Rafael may have little or no do do with what happens on the first Sat. in May and neither Stevie nor Derek even making it to the starting gate there, but David has a good point in that the discussion has raised the issues of the relative effects of conditioning vs. ground loss vs. pace vs. lack of early pace pressure vs. pseudo-pressure, which has spilled out into my group as well, and made for some lively and informative discussion on both boards.
Bob
David-- the most BENIGN explanation I can come up with for some of the stuff that comes out of you is that you are off your meds. Those guys attack me personally and lie about me, regularly, and they are benign? Half the posts on that site are attacks on me, but never about the figure making issues I bring up, which are legitimate questions and business issues. Get a friggin clue.
SoCal-- I happen to be a big fan of the female singer in question. Having said that, there is a bartender around here who used to work at Max\'s Kansas City, and who turned her down. When I registered shock, he said \"And you would have too\".
Leonard Cohen obviously disagreed, on the unmade bed, at the Chelsea Hotel.
By the way, Alan is going to see the Stones tonight.
So what do you guys think the Stones pull out for their Super Bowl set?
I figure they\'ll stick to rockers. I\'m making Start Me Up the 6-to-5 morning line favorite.
sympathy for the devil.............
i went down to the chelsea drug-store, to get my thorograph sheets...
i was standing in line, with mr. friedman, the man he looked pretty ill.....
(Not my post, but I corrected the spelling of you-know-who).
The way I see it, they need to play three songs and I agree they need to be rockers. I do not see SFTD being played. SMU is an obvious contender. Given the lyrics of Brown Sugar, I do not see it as a possibility at the Super Bowl -- \"Gold Coast slave ship bound for New Orleans\" just has way too many negative connotations...and the song only goes further. Behind SMU, the two most logical contenders have to be \"Satisfaction\" and \"Jumping Jack Flash\" (\"I was born in a crossfire huricane\" seems like a perfect line for the fifty yard line on Super Bowl Sunday). Some dark horse contenders include \"She\'s So Cold\" -- especially if it is cold in Detroit that weekend -- and \"Gimme Shelter\" which features the amazing Lisa Fisher on the female lead -- she would outshine Janet Jackson like you would not believe. \"Get off of my cloud\" and \"Paint it, Black\" have been done very well on this latest tour and could get the spot. Another real darkhorse would be \"Let\'s Spend the Night Together\". They just played this oldie in Boston for the first time in eons. Given the history of this song and censorship on the Ed Sullivan show, they may want to take advantage of the large American television audience to get it right this time.
Here is my line,
Start Me Up 1-1
Jumping Jack Flash 5-2
Satisfaction 9-2
She\'s So Cold 8-1
Gimme Shelter 8-1
Lets Spend the Night Together 8-1
Get off of my Cloud 20-1
Paint it, Black 20-1
I hope Alan enjoys the show and gives us a little report up here!
The problems on that other board speak for themself\'s and how fast do you think these folks over there forget about whats important . How\'s this , Jerry Lee Lewis 2 - song guest appearence w/ Stones 200-1 ...
Bobphilo said
\"... the discussion (of the San Raphael) has raised the issues of the relative effects of conditioning v ground loss v pace v lack of early pace pressure v pseudo pressure...\"
All of this discussion spawned by a FOUR HORSE RACE?!? Sounds more like cabin fever than Derby fever to me, or maybe paralysis by quasi over-analysis.
But if you insist on talking Derby in the middle of January, is JD Bailey\'s retirement a vote of no confidence for First Samurai? (A nice homage was written to Bailey by Silver Charm on this board last night; after all is said and done, Bailey for all of his greatness, will be remembered as the second best rider ever born in the state of Texas).
Back to a certain malodorous melodist: Mark Kriegel, in his bio of Joe Namath, said that Namath\'s toughest opponent in the Jets\' 1969 championship season was not the Raiders defensive line but Janis Joplin. JJ was not a Namath girl-- she was neither winsome nor statuesque-- but she was smitten by Broadway Joe; her handlers were persistent in trying to make a coupling between the jock and the rocker come to pass. Just to rid themselves of the aggravation, Namath\'s handlers convinced him to accommodate JJ-- an accommodation which was only accomplished with the help of a river of Tequila.
Also from the Kriegel bio: Sonny Werblin sent his friend, legendary Racing Form columnist Joe Hirsch, to meet Namath at Tropical Park at the end of Namath\'s senior year (the two Joes would later become famous roommates in Manhattan). At their first meeting, Hirsch cynically commented to Namath \"You must have majored in something tough at Alabama, like basket weaving\"
Namath\'s reply: \"Nah, that class was filled up, but I found an even easier one--Journalism.\"
I sit here reading with amusement as this thread includes more references than a routine by Dennis Miller. It seems that the subject of the discussion has become what the hell is the subject of the discussion? As for myself, I wasn't trying to use the race as a future book betting guide to the Derby so much as an illustration of how a 4 horse race can generate different views on so many different aspects of handicapping. People can just as well use the theories on the Derby as on a $2,500 claimer at Finger Lakes.
Here's a wild concept, they can even relate the comments to analyze the performances of Stevie Wonderboy and Brother Derek in the San Rafael.
Bob
Dear RichieBee
I am a good friend of Joe Hirsch\'s. He is one of the greatest guys in the world. He confirmed that story related by Kriegel about his and Namath\'s first meeting. Joe and Joe were roommates for 10 years. If you want to understand how good friends they are, you only need to do the following.....do a search in the DRF archives looking for pieces authored by Namath. That is correct, AUTHORED by Namath. You will find the tribute Namath wrote to Joe when the racing form announced Hirsch\'s retirement. The racing form used this piece on its cover instead of having any racing articles the day it was published. I can ask Joe if the Joplin stuff is true, although i am getting worried that we are getting off the topic of the pilfering of Monkey Man by Gary Mc. I would also like to add that I have nothing against Gary Mc personally. He seems like an extremely reasonable poster over there. And, of course, I share his taste in music (Monkey Man is a terribly underrated song...suffers from being a cut on an album loaded with hits....the Stones did this song fantastically on the 40 licks tour). Now, does anybody have anything on Dylan and horseracing?
How was the show last night? I see they did Gimme Shelter!! How awesome is Lisa???
Well, you bet on a horse and it ran on the wrong way
I always said you\'d be sorry and today could be the day
I might need a good lawyer, could be your funeral, my trial
Well, I cried for you, now it\'s your turn, you can cry awhile
Dylan - Cry A While - from Love And Theft - 2001
Also, I had been waiting for the opportunity ... I finally saw Festival Express on DVD some months after Jerry touted it here ... besides some excellent numbers from the Band, the Janis Joplin numbers - Tell Mama, in particular - are among the best you have ever seen of her.
And, re the Stones, I know it is probably not live, but, in the tradition of \"I don\'t care if my horse wins so long as the price is right\", I can\'t believe no one here cast a vote for Dead Flowers.
Against a video backdrop of projecting asteroids, the curtain parted at about 9:40pm with Keith Richards stepping out stage left, mid-front launching into the first few chords of Jumping Jack Flash. The rhythm section kicked in, Mick pranced out center stage and voila---The Rolling Stones.
This was the first arena concert I\'ve seen in many, many years and it seemed to me from what little I recall that much has changed, mostly all for the better.
After Let\'s Spend the Night Together, song two, the Stones and sound engineers seemed to have tweaked the sound to optimal tone and volume. Indeed, it was surprising how clear it sounded to me up in the not-so-cheap seats of section 304.
The band was tight. Mick and crew were in fine form with Mick prancing around left, right, center stage, up and down the catwalks engaging the audience, and likewise Keith to a slightly lesser extent.
The backup singers were located stage right back, keyboardist and exotic wood grower Chuck Leavall, stage right center back, guitarist Ron Wood stage right center front, drummer Charlie Watts plexiglass sidewalled off, center back, equipment, horns stage left back, bassist (didn\'t catch his name) stage left front, Keith stage left center front and Mick center stage roaming about.
Good set-up, good sound, big stage with a lots of room for Mick, Keith and Ron to move about. I don\'t think they played much if anything from their new album. Instead it was the usual suspects so-to-speak in no particular order--Sympathy For The Devil, Brown Sugar, Happy, Honky Tonk Women, Miss You, Love Is Strong, Start Me Up, You Can\'t Always Get What You Want, Midnight Rambler, Tumbling Dice and about an hour in Gimme Shelter.
Gimme Shelter was a highlight especially the third verse sung by Lisa Fisher, who with her power and energy amply delivered the vocal intensity the verse and song demanded. Good stuff, thrilling, goose-pimple rushes, and yet for one who remembers and/or still listens to the original, there\'s no way ever to replicate the serendipitous voice crackle, cracking Merry Clayton vocalized.
Mick mentioned mid-show they were playing the Super Bowl and he promised to bare both t*ts--some humor.
They a solid 1h50m before leaving the stage only to come back with Satisfaction as the encore.
Altogether they played 2h. It was very professional. The sound was clear, crisp, the band was tight and engaging. It was a multigenerational audience--saw some moms and pops with their tots, and lots of young adults, obviously second or third generation Stones fans.
My sight lines were good, no auras of smoke hovering, although I did smell some of that funny stuff, not much, 15 or 20m in. It dissipated only to return an hour or so later. Oh the good old days. A friendly, well behaved, responsive of not overexuberant crowd. At this point in time, the urgency, either from this audience member nor from the band itself, I would say, although as I said they were engaging, energetic and professional, isn\'t the same.
As Jagger-Richard wrote but did not sing or play last night, Time Waits For No One.
Alan
Thanks for the great review! I almost feel like I was there! Oh, that Lisa!!
SCM2
If the Superbowl were in Memphis or somewhere in Texas, then a country song (possibly Dead Flowers but more likely Faraway Eyes (even though it is Bakersfield-style)) would make sense. The reference in Dead Flowers to being in the basement with a needle and a spoon would not go over big with the NFL. In Detroit, a country song is just not going to fit so well.
A cover of a Motown song is definitely in the realm of possibility for Detroit. \"Ain\'t Too Proud to Beg\" and \"Everybody Needs Someone to Love\" are two strong candidates. I would say if one of them goes in, they replace Satisfaction. Hard to imagine Start Me Up and Jumping Jack Flash not being there. \"Ain\'t Too Proud to Beg\" suffers from having been performed by the Stones in Detroit the last time they were there (Aug 31, 2005). \"Love Train\" is another possibility.
Of course, Dead Flowers would be a favorite of the board due to the Kentucky Derby reference, but I do not think we carry too much weight.