I use on tgraph. Long story but i learned while in Maryland from king leatherbury. he was walking around with so stupid paper with chicken stracth on it. oh did we learn in a hurry how the scratch led to more scratch. Can we start some talks about handicapping instead of days and days of dager throwing
The thing i\'m coming up with the most these days is a horse coming to its top. How and when do we see this towards a forward or backwards move.
Thanks
I do expect many long answers
Basket,
Sounds like you might beinterested in that dirty word \"money\".
I\'m sure Brown has a ton of stuff in archives.
Rags has numerous audio tapes w/ corresponding sheets and I have a stack full of losing tickets to attest to their reliability!!
The specific question you ask would take forever to disect(ask ten people, get 10 different answers.
BUT!!....some things you must consider are;(JUST A FEW,ANYONE WISHING TO ADD >>PLEASE LETS GET IT STARTED.
timing is huge...space between races
trainer patterns...definitely NOT equibase
connections intentions
medication..equip.changes
PILE ON GUYS!
How about ..TRIP
If said horse equals previos recent 3 w/perfect trip 1w/1w,chances aren\'t as great the following race will even satisfy the odds your hoping to achieve.
This is also where Browns\' t/p can become an effective tool....remember this % link is very basic and need only have 3 consecutive starts w/no more than a 6 week interval at any junction....when it is valid its\' found money.
PILE ON GUYS!!
Variation of a Theme: by using t. g.,Iam always looking for small sometims insignificant moves(reasons) to bet a horse.
Jerry seems to give his #\'s a plus/minus 1 point for equaling or coming back to a top.I am not so liberal...1/2 point moves interst me...especially if its faster
Things like shipping...gate...spacing of races...etc. i\'m quick to excuse in a recent spacing of races if it all comes together for this exact time and race.
Only compensate for wght. about half of whatever Jerry gives..but rely heavily on trip and strip w/t.g.
PILE ON GUYS!!
Basket-- as I have said many times here, the single most important handicapping decision you make is in which data to use.
\"The race is not always to the swift, but it\'s the right way to bet\".
--- Damon Runyon
But only if you are right about who is the swiftest.
And if you are betting based on a horse having moved forward or back... it helps if he actually did.
Oh well, talking theory on reading sheets just doesn\'t cut it....even here!
Voyeurs for Life
Really - You must be kidding ! Even NIEZTCHE wrote about Handicapping in his Euphimisoms And Axioms : His Secret For Success - A YES , A NO , A STRAIGHT LINE , A GOAL ...
This thread reminds me of one of the greatest quotes I ever read. I just tried to find it on the internet and could not but was able to find a lot of interesting quotes by the same writer. Maybe somebody out there knows where to find the particular quote I am looking for.
The quote I have in mind comes from an interview with Ernest Hemingway. The interviewer asks Hemingway if he is a horseracing fan and Hemingway says yes. The interviewer asks Hemingway if he uses the Daily Racing Form, and Hemingway replies (in words far richer and superior than how I am about to paraphrase) \"Ah yes! Now, there you have a genuine work of fiction!\"
Here are some other interesting quotes I found from Hemingway while trying to locate that old quote. While these are about writing, try to imagine them applying to figure making. I think Ol\' Ernie would have very much appreciated the deep philosophical underpinnings that underlie figuremaking which itself is really nothing more than a form of reporting what actually happened (something a writer with a journalistic background would be very sensitive to).
Following are Hemingway quotes with my own commentary --
\"All good books have one thing in common - they are truer than if they had really happened.\"
Try replacing \'books\' with \'figures\'
\"I know now that there is no one thing that is true - it is all true.\"
Try applying this reasoning to the Thorograph versus Ragozin disputes and all of a sudden they seem a lot less significant.
\"If a writer knows enough about what he is writing about, he may omit things that he knows. The dignity of movement of an iceberg is due to only one ninth of it being above water.\"
This is why we do not need to know things like whether or not a race was broken out. I can just see Classhandicapper wanting to put on a wet suit and check out the whole damn iceberg for no apparent reason other than showing off (and why somebody would want to show off stuff that to a sane human would be humiliating or embarrassing is beyond me)
SoCal-- There are also a couple of chapters in \"A Moveable Feast\" where Ernie talks about making a living in Paris by betting on the horses. Or at least enough to eat.
TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SoCal-- There are also a couple of chapters in \"A
> Moveable Feast\" where Ernie talks about making a
> living in Paris by betting on the horses. Or at
> least enough to eat.
Well, it is 11 years late, but I finally found the Hemingway quote. of course, his quote is way better than my attempt. Love how so so much is communicated in so few words. Here is the link --
http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4825/the-art-of-fiction-no-21-ernest-hemingway
SoCalMan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Love how so so much is
> communicated in so few words.
Reminds me of my very favorite thing about him:
\"Poor Faulkner, does he really think big emotions come from big words?\"
(Faulkner said Hemingway\'s writing lacked courage, and that he never sent a reader to the dictionary.)
Roald Dahl was also an astute handicapper, this poem is brilliant:
SNOW WHITE AND THE SEVEN DWARFS
by
Roald Dahl
When little Snow-White's mother died
The King, her father, up and cried
"Oh, what a nuisance! What a life!
Now I must find another wife."
(It's never easy for a King
To find himself that sort of thing.)
He wrote to every magazine
And said, "I'm looking for a Queen."
At least ten thousand girls replied
And begged to be the royal bride
The king said with a shifty smile
"I'd like to give each one a trial."
However, in the end he chose
A lady called Miss Maclahose
Who brought along a curious toy
That seemed to give her endless joy.
This was a mirror framed in brass
A MAGIC TALKING LOOKING GLASS
Ask it something day or night
It always got the answer right
For instance, if you were to say
"Oh Mirror, what's for lunch today?"
The thing would answer in a trice
"Today it's scrambled eggs and rice."
Now every day, week in week out
The spoiled and stupid Queen would shout
"Oh Mirror Mirror on the wall
Who is the fairest of them all?"
The Mirror answered every time
"Oh Madam, you're the Queen sublime
You are the only one to charm us
Queen, you are the cat's pyjamas."
For ten whole years the silly Queen
Repeated this absurd routine
Then suddenly, one awful day
She heard the Magic Mirror say
"From now on Queen, you're number two
Snow-White is prettier than you."
The Queen went absolutely wild
She yelled, "I'm going to scrag that child."
"I'll cook her flaming goose, I'll skin her
I'll have her rotten guts for dinner."
She called the Huntsman to her study
She shouted at him, "Listen, buddy,
You drag that filthy girl outside
And see you take her for a ride
Thereafter slit her ribs apart
And bring me back her bleeding heart."
The Huntsman dragged the lovely child
Deep deep into the forest wild
Fearing the worst, poor Snow-White spake
She cried, "Oh please give me a break."
The knife was poised, the arm was strong
She cried again, "I've done no wrong."
The Huntsman's heart began to flutter
It melted like a pound of butter.
He murmured, "Okay, beat it, kid."
And you can bet your life she did
Later, the Huntsman made a stop
Within the local butcher's shop
And there he bought, for safety's sake
A bullocks heart and one nice steak
"Oh Majesty! Oh Queen," he cried
"That rotten little girl has died.
And just to prove I didn't cheat
I've brought along these bits of meat."
The Queen cried out, "Bravissimo
I trust you killed her nice and slow."
Then (this is the disgusting part)
The Queen sat down and ate the heart
(I only hope she cooked it well
Boiled heart can be as tough as hell)
While all this was going on
Oh where, oh where had Snow-White gone?
She'd found it easy, being pretty
To hitch a ride into the city
And there she'd got a job, unpaid
As general cook and parlour-maid
With seven funny little men
Each one not more than three foot ten
Ex horse-race jockeys, all of them
These seven dwarfs, though awfully nice
Were guilty of one shocking vice
They squandered all of their resources
At the race-track backing horses
(When they hadn't backed a winner
None of them got any dinner)
One evening, Snow-White said, "Look here,
I think I've got a great idea
Just leave it all to me, okay,
And no more gambling till I say."
That very night, at eventide
Young Snow-White hitched another ride
And then, when it was very late
She slipped in through the Palace gate
The King was in his counting house
Counting out his money
The Queen was in the parlour
Eating bread and honey
The footmen and the servants slept
So no one saw her as she crept
On tip-toe through the mighty hall
And grabbed THE MIRROR off the wall
As soon as she had got it home
She told the Senior Dwarf (or Gnome)
To ask it what he wished to know
"Go on," she shouted, "Have a go."
He said, "Oh Mirror, please don't joke
Each of us is stony broke
Which horse will win tomorrow's race,
The Ascot Gold Cup Steeple-chase?"
The Mirror whispered sweet and low
"The horse's name is Mistletoe."
The Dwarfs went absolutely daft
They kissed young Snow-White fore and aft
Then rushed away to raise some dough
With which to back old Mistletoe
They pawned their watches, sold the car
They borrowed money near and far
(For much of it they had to thank
The Manager of Barclays Bank)
They went to Ascot and of course
For once they backed the winning horse
Thereafter, every single day
The Mirror made the bookies pay
Each Dwarf and Snow-White got a share
And each was soon a millionaire
Which shows that gambling's not a sin
Provided that you always win.
SoCalMan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TGJB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SoCal-- There are also a couple of chapters in
> \"A
> > Moveable Feast\" where Ernie talks about making
> a
> > living in Paris by betting on the horses. Or at
> > least enough to eat.
>
>
> Well, it is 11 years late, but I finally found the
> Hemingway quote. of course, his quote is way
> better than my attempt. Love how so so much is
> communicated in so few words. Here is the link
> --
>
> http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4825/the-
> art-of-fiction-no-21-ernest-hemingway
I do have to comment that I disavow some of what I said back in 2005. I guess I said it and it was out there, but I do not agree today with some of my sentiments posted 11 years ago in this thread.
I can\'t believe you found that string from 11 years ago.
Movable Feast does have some great racetrack stuff. Ernie knew the game.
Imagine Hemingway in the back yard with Uncle Bill and a cast of Christian, TopCat, Richiebee, Mathcapper, our fearless seminar leaders, a Frank D. story or 6 and our other assorted characters? That would only be this years edition of a Pulitzer!!!
Not hard to imagine to those who know me well but I\'m an avid Hemingway collector and have several first editions of his classics. Anyone that can incorporate baseball, horse racing, sport fishing and alcohol abuse into one life deserves admiration.
FrankD. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Imagine Hemingway in the back yard with Uncle Bill
> and a cast of Christian, TopCat, Richiebee,
> Mathcapper, our fearless seminar leaders, a Frank
> D. story or 6 and our other assorted characters?
> That would only be this years edition of a
> Pulitzer!!!
If we are going to conjure a Hemingway from the spirit world to join us under the
Big Screen, I would much prefer EH\'s granddaughter, Margaux. I am certain she
would be quite smitten with Uncle Bill, as all the ladies are.
Hemingway in the backyard... let\'s see...a few thoughts on book titles...\"The Old Man and the \'Bounce\'...\"A Farewell to \'Rags\'\"...For Whom the 0-2-x Tolls\"...
Sorry for me feeble attempt at humor...I\'m at a medical meeting in on the west coast!
John
Actually a few of the real titles (\"Winner Take Nothing\", \"To Have and Have Not\") can at some point can apply to most everyone on this board!!
Does your \"medical meeting\" include examining the downhill turf course tomorrow?
FrankD. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Imagine Hemingway in the back yard with Uncle Bill
> and a cast of Christian, TopCat, Richiebee,
> Mathcapper, our fearless seminar leaders, a Frank
> D. story or 6 and our other assorted characters?
> That would only be this years edition of a
> Pulitzer!!!
>
> Not hard to imagine to those who know me well but
> I\'m an avid Hemingway collector and have several
> first editions of his classics. Anyone that can
> incorporate baseball, horse racing, sport fishing
> and alcohol abuse into one life deserves
> admiration.
The backyard reached new modern heights this Spa season . . . especially the last three weeks. Only question is whether there\'s a new top, a pair or a regression in the offing . . .
Unfortunately NOT!
SoCalMan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TGJB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SoCal-- There are also a couple of chapters in
> \"A
> > Moveable Feast\" where Ernie talks about making
> a
> > living in Paris by betting on the horses. Or at
> > least enough to eat.
>
>
> Well, it is 11 years late, but I finally found the
> Hemingway quote. of course, his quote is way
> better than my attempt. Love how so so much is
> communicated in so few words. Here is the link
> --
>
> http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4825/the-
> art-of-fiction-no-21-ernest-hemingway
DRF dope, while not fictitious . . . are naturally subject to considerably-varied interpretations.
Topcat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SoCalMan2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TGJB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SoCal-- There are also a couple of chapters
> in
> > \"A
> > > Moveable Feast\" where Ernie talks about
> making
> > a
> > > living in Paris by betting on the horses. Or
> at
> > > least enough to eat.
> >
> >
> > Well, it is 11 years late, but I finally found
> the
> > Hemingway quote. of course, his quote is way
> > better than my attempt. Love how so so much is
> > communicated in so few words. Here is the link
> > --
> >
> >
> http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4825/the-
>
> > art-of-fiction-no-21-ernest-hemingway
>
>
> DRF dope, while not fictitious . . . are naturally
> subject to considerably-varied interpretations.
The way I look at it, PPs are an art form. Looking at a great set of PPs is like looking at a thing of beauty. Human attempt to capture natural real world beauty. Capable of being both truth and falsity. Sheets fall in same category,.....ever fell in love with a sheet?
For what it\'s worth, Hemingway\'s best writing on racing is the early short story \"My Old Man.\" You can find a link to it, if you\'re interested, here: http://cafelitt.ca/down/My%20old%20man.pdf
The story of the real horse it\'s based on, Ksar, who H renames \"Kzar,\" is pretty fascinating--he won back-to-back renewals of the Arc before running badly in the Grand Prix de Paris, a race in which he was likely doped.
Re: DRF, I do find the writing in the charts to represent some pretty good (and unheralded) literary efforts!
Al Caught Up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For what it\'s worth, Hemingway\'s best writing on
> racing is the early short story \"My Old Man.\" You
> can find a link to it, if you\'re interested, here:
> http://cafelitt.ca/down/My%20old%20man.pdf
>
> The story of the real horse it\'s based on, Ksar,
> who H renames \"Kzar,\" is pretty fascinating--he
> won back-to-back renewals of the Arc before
> running badly in the Grand Prix de Paris, a race
> in which he was likely doped.
>
> Re: DRF, I do find the writing in the charts to
> represent some pretty good (and unheralded)
> literary efforts!
The chart writer for the DRF for Saratoga was superb!
SoCalMan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Al Caught Up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For what it\'s worth, Hemingway\'s best writing
> on
> > racing is the early short story \"My Old Man.\"
> You
> > can find a link to it, if you\'re interested,
> here:
> > http://cafelitt.ca/down/My%20old%20man.pdf
> >
> > The story of the real horse it\'s based on,
> Ksar,
> > who H renames \"Kzar,\" is pretty fascinating--he
> > won back-to-back renewals of the Arc before
> > running badly in the Grand Prix de Paris, a
> race
> > in which he was likely doped.
> >
> > Re: DRF, I do find the writing in the charts to
> > represent some pretty good (and unheralded)
> > literary efforts!
>
> The chart writer for the DRF for Saratoga was
> superb!
Some hate the NYRA footnotes. Some like them. Include me in the latter group.