According to Bloodhorse.com, Tyler Baze was suspended by the Indiana stewards for failing a routine(!) pre-race breathalizer test before the Indiana Derby, and taken off Southern Africa. Which was a 500k race, by the way.
I\'m kinda thinking that might explain his recent lack of success, and maybe hurt his career a little bit. At least for a while.
TGJB,
I didn\'t even know that anyone checked for something like that.
I did have another thought though. Hoosier is evening racing. Isn\'t is possible he went out for dinner after the afternoon racing and had a couple of glasses of wine with dinner not knowing they would check on something like that?
Class,
Maybe you should apply for a job as Baze\'s counsel.
So, you are now asking Jerry if it is possible that Baze went out to dinner that night and had wine, not knowing that they do breathalyzers.
Jerry, do you have a track man at all the restaurants near Hoosier? Can you comment on the possibility that Baze had wine that night? Can you also notate it in the sheets for the horses he has ridden in the past 3 months.
Sorry Class, but your post is a classic example of the inane stuff that shouldn\'t be on this board, especially with less than 4 weeks until the Breeders Cup.
It had been reported he was fighting an eating disorder in DRF about a month ago, but it sounded kind of fishy at the time...even moreso now.
jimbo,
I\'m not asking anyone anything and I didn\'t bring the topic up!!!
I\'m saying failing a breathalizer test isn\'t a mortal lock to mean he has a chronic drinking problem unless there have been rumors to that effect to begin with. Obviously, he must not have known about the test otherwise not only was he drunk, but he\'s dumb too. That\'s why I am suggesting that given the time frame of the race (evening), perhaps a few drinks with dinner caused the test failure without being an indication of a big and chronic problem.
Jimbo-- yes, we do have trackmen at the restaraunts and parking lots, but we had to do an estimate because he was weaving in and out.
Beyerguy-- Drinking disorder?
I\'ll tell you, it\'s funny, but it ain\'t funny. Those things weight 1,000 pounds, and don\'t have brakes.
gee I would be wondering why the topic heading on the original note was holy SMOKES
sorry that sounded like David rex
No, they actually said eating disorder, and he allegedly lost a bunch of weight and had no strength. This was supposed to be the reason for his Dmr slump.
Who knows what is happening, maybe he did go out for dinner and had a little wine, and didn\'t eat anything, LOL!
We\'ll have to wait for Jerry\'s track to man to be sure.......
TGJB Wrote:
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> According to Bloodhorse.com, Tyler Baze was
> suspended by the Indiana stewards for failing a
> routine(!) pre-race breathalizer test before the
> Indiana Derby, and taken off Southern Africa.
> Which was a 500k race, by the way.
>
> I\'m kinda thinking that might explain his recent
> lack of success, and maybe hurt his career a
> little bit. At least for a while.
It was also on bloodhorse.com recently. It was bulemia and he was down all the way to 100lbs. He supposedly got help for it
The limit is .05 and apparently he blew over that.
Why anybody would drink or ingest anything that can even remotely impair motor functions while riding a 1000+ pd. animal 40 mph is beyond irresponsible. Baze has some serious issues that need immediate help.
I suggest you read Jerry Bailey\'s auto bio...what is surprising to me is only that the other jocks allowed him out of the room. but form my understanding of the SoCal jocks room, if 12 guys are going to dinner together, they need 25 cabs.
When they start showing up drunk or high for afternoon cards it\'s time for a major suspension and treatment program. When they show up drunk for one evening card, nipping it in the bud seems fine to me. A week suspension and a long talk seems appropriate to me. He\'s in his early 20s isn\'t he?
socal?
its the same way at belmont, its not different from track to track.
drinking and riding horses go hand in hand, just most do it AFTER they get done riding, not before.
Geez, what an apologist. How about thinking of the other jocks, horses, owners, trainers, and gamblers who could be affected by an inebriated jockey. What the hell is wrong with you? Suppose your assumptions are correct and he had \"a couple of glasses of wine\" with dinner. A 100 lb. person with two drinks in one hour has a blood alcohol content of .075! This is OK? Oh, so getting drunk in the morning or afternoon is better than in the evening...my gosh.
The next time I see a pilot having a couple of beer \"in the evening\" before flying a plane, I\'ll tell him it\'s OK... just don\'t have a couple before the 8 AM flight.
What in the hell is wrong with you people! I am not approving of drinking and riding horses. I am suggesting a difference between showing up at noon \"over the limit\" and showing up at 9PM \"over the limit\". One makes me think of Pat Valenzuela and other makes me think we could be dealing with an irresponsible and immature 20+ year old that needs a little guidance. That doesn\'t make it right, but there\'s a distinction in terms of penalty and his prospects for this becoming chronic.
CH-- should the same thinking about time of day apply when looking at DWI violations?
There are an awful lot of jockeys in wheelchairs, and all it takes is once.
First of all, L\'shanah tovah to all TG users out there.
In the spirit of the new year, I probably shouldn\'t contribute to these exchanges, but don\'t we have more worthy subjects to focus on? The BC is three plus weeks away and there\'s still another weekend of preps coming up for us to discuss, right?
Class, I will summarize your first post for you and you tell me whether I\'m misstating it.
Show up drunk for a day card: give them a big suspension and get them in a treatment program.
Show up drunk for a night card: give them a week suspension and a long talk.
I would ask you to explain why in God\'s name there should be this distinction (after all, the horses weigh the same, the potential for endangering yourself and your fellow riders is roughly the same, etc.) but I\'m afraid that would make the problem worse by inviting another long, irrelevant and ultimately foolish exchange. Please let\'s not waste any more time on this and similar irrelevant foolishness and let\'s get back to the issues that matter.
Class,
You have to post on every subject!
\"I am suggesting a difference between showing up at noon \"over the limit\" and showing up at 9PM \"over the limit\". That doesn\'t make it right, but there\'s a distinction in terms of penalty...\"
Why should there be a distinction in terms of penalty based on the time of day of the infraction? You could easily argue drinking with dinner and racing at night is more dangerous, since you\'d be a little more tired after that routine, as opposed to having a few before the first race!
\"and the prospects for this becoming chronic.\"
This is where you are like the Energizer bunny. You just keep going and going... You have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER about this guy\'s life, the circumstances surrounding this incident or ANYTHING AT ALL to base this comment on. You have NO CLUE about the prospects for this becoming chronic. Because it was at night, his prospects for chronic alchol abuse are lower? You are an IDIOT! I\'m sure you will now post a long diatribe about your expertise in treating alcoholism, along with your incredible knack for investing in insurance companies, etc.
Serves you right that ezgoer rips you, just for posting ON EVERY DAMN SUBJECT THAT COMES UP. This is yet another subject where you are a self appointed expert and you just don\'t know what the hell you\'re talking about! Hopefully this poor kid will get some help. As for you, take a week off for God\'s sake. You\'ll still have plenty of time before Breeders Cup to monopolize the board.
HP
TGJB,
You are still missing the point. I was NOT commenting on whether or not he would have put others at risk by riding (driving) drunk. That\'s obvious. It doesn\'t matter whether you drink in the morning or the evening.
I am commenting on his prospects as a rider and what degree of drinking/substance abuse problem he might have based on this incident.
I think evening drinking (perhaps with dinner) is less of a sign of a serious drinking problem than morning drinking. So perhaps with a punishment, a good talking to, and a little more maturity, this will be the last time we will see this from him. If he was a morning drinker I would immediately suggest counseling or a program and expect more of the same every few months. No one drinks in the morning unless they have a problem. Everyone drinks in the evening socially and/or with dinner. He may just be irresponsible and immature and not have a drinking problem. If so, I think he will be fine and his career OK. Let\'s hope.
Caradoc:
Thanks for the New Year greetings.
Its a rough time of year, I\'m still writing 5765 on all my checks.
HP,
I would have been happy to make one comment and go away but some people are too dense to understand the distinction I was making and feel compelled to assume the worst about everything I say so they have another reason to trash me.
CH-- class martyr, pace martyr, DWI martyr...
Any chance it\'s not them, but you?
That aside, the more you think about it, you have to wonder how many of those jockeys are in wheelchairs (I think I once heard it was over 100, but that sounds awful high) because somebody-- maybe even them-- was high or drunk when they rode, or tied a girth on. It\'s a lot more dangerous than driving a car.
\"I would have been happy to make one comment and go away but some people are too dense to understand the distinction I was making and feel compelled to assume the worst about everything I say so they have another reason to trash me.\"
You can never make one comment and go away!
I don\'t think anyone was TOO DENSE to understand what you were talking about. You\'re not saying anything profound. You\'re just WRONG! The time of day is MEANINGLESS! You just don\'t know a damn thing about this guy and you just have to get your stupid two cents in anyway. Can\'t you just admit that YOU DON\'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS GUY? You don\'t! This isn\'t an argument about pace, etc. You don\'t know anything about him or his situation. Doesn\'t stop you from extrapolating, etc.
I don\'t assume the worst about EVERYTHING you say. I\'m only talking about this one specific thing, where you are UNEQUIVOCALLY WRONG AND DON\'T KNOW WHAT YOU\'RE TALKING ABOUT. Just admit it, for once, you\'re WRONG! Don\'t feel bad. My wife tells me everybody is wrong sometimes.
I don\'t think anyone needs any additional reasons to trash you. Your continuous daily output provides more than enough... And apparently \"trashing you\" has no impact as you continue to post at \"War and Peace\" levels regardless...
HP
To me, one of the great and miserable ironies in racing was that Bill Shoemaker had one of the great long careers in race riding history, retired from the saddle healthy, and then had 2 beers after a round of golf and rolled his Ford down an embankment, rendering himself a parapalegic.
He broke down while being interviewed on TVG after winning a Del Mar turf stakes race last month aboard LEPRUCHAN KID. My feeling is there is something wrong in his life.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
Maybe Class likes to give Jockeys the benefit of the doubt. Still haven\'t read a story where the Jock admits to having a drink and considering the eating disorder rumor one drink would probably do it.
.05 threshold? How far over was he? What if he didn\'t drink? Could an individual with Anorexia have his own body break itself down and produce a minimal amount of alcohol in the process? The breakdown of organic matter can result in alcohol as a by product. This kid is rumored to have Bulemia. If he had a beer thats another matter.
You all are right of course. Its serious business and Jockeys are fighter pilots. Each day may be their last. They work hard and play harder. Theres plenty of stories, Valenzeula, Elliot, Hanson, Bailey. Theres more. They should be tested with a blow in the Jocks room and blood samples should be taken of all placing horses and frozen with a preservative so that blood doesnt ferment.
The Shoe story is an incredible irony. What a wonderful guy he was.
HP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don\'t assume the worst about EVERYTHING you say.
> I\'m only talking about this one specific thing,
> where you are UNEQUIVOCALLY WRONG AND DON\'T KNOW
> WHAT YOU\'RE TALKING ABOUT. Just admit it, for
> once, you\'re WRONG! Don\'t feel bad. My wife
> tells me everybody is wrong sometimes.
\"War and Peace\" levels regardless...
>
> HP
>
TGJB,
>Any chance it\'s not them, but you? <
I know that most people here find me very annoying, but I\'m also pretty sure a lot of what they complain about they instigate themselves because they respond to an opinion I express that is contrary to what they believe (or want to believe) and I respond back. So the conversation continues. It has happened so many times, it has deteriorated to the point where whatever I say it\'s either unwanted or the worst is assumed and the simple point being made gets lost in a bunch of complaints and attacks that were not required.
\"If\" I said I don\'t think Borrego ran as fast as you think and expressed why, it would turn into an endless conversation, a series of attack posts, and ultimately end badly again when really all that\'s required is perhaps 2-3 posts, a potential insight here or there, and perhaps an agreement to disagree.
I don\'t seem to have these problems when discussing racing elsewhere or when I discuss any number of other hobbies on other boards regardless of whether people agree with me or not.
\"I told my doctor I broke my arm in three places. He said, stay away from those places\"-- Henny Youngman.
CH-- the solution seems obvious-- why not just post on those other boards?
TGJB,
I do, but I also like to read the commentary here and on your competitor\'s board to see what other people are thinking. Believe me, when I do post I\'m not looking to start trouble. I\'m looking to express another point of view that will perhaps be benefical and then all hell breaks loose. Plus, I do buy both products from time to time.
Class,
Theoretically \"the Law\" and \"Rules\" are the same for everyone all of the time, not just some of the people some of the time. Class, I hear what you are saying. I think everyone does. it\'s just that 1) It doesn\'t make sense and 2) It\'s just not right to rationalize in this case. Period.
NC Tony
NCT,
I hear you.
Since no one here including me knows for certain what\'s going on his life, I really didn\'t consider it out of line or controversial to point out that from a speculative point of view regarding what IS going on with him, it would look a lot worse if he showed up that way in the morning.
Why making that observation is a problem, I don\'t know. Well actually I do know. People wanted to assume I was making excuses for him, defending him, \"rationalizing\" his behavior so they would have a new reason to trash me.
How the conversation turned into anything beyond my single point is beyond me.
I never said he should be cut some slack because it was an evening or because he\'s a kid etc... The rules are the rules for this offense. However, IMO another set of rules are required for the kind of thing that happens with the Pat Valenzuelas of the world where they are repeat offenders and everyone on the planet knows that the problem requires more than a 1 week suspension. Those rules would also apply to the kid *IF* he has just as big a problem and *IF* he breaks them as often.
If you are suggesting that 1 week is not enough. That\'s a different debate.
Class: I\'m sure most posters here would tell me to ignore this, but please, stop it. No one is criticizing you for opining that \"it would look a lot worse if he showed up in the morning that way.\" Whatever the merits of that opinion, the conversation turned into something else because you wrote the following:
\"When they start showing up drunk or high for afternoon cards it\'s time for a major suspension and treatment program. When they show up drunk for one evening card, nipping it in the bud seems fine to me. A week suspension and a long talk seems appropriate to me. He\'s in his early 20s isn\'t he?\" I thought -- apparently mistakenly -- that \"they\" meant all jockeys and you seriously were proposing a different punishment depending on when a jockey had been drinking. I thought that because it is what you wrote -- read it again for yourself. You have to forgive me and quite a few others for thinking you actually meant what you wrote.
Now you write that you \"never implied that he should be cut some slack ... the rules are the rules.\" You\'re right, you didn\'t imply it: you said it directly. You wrote (as quoted above) in reference to Baze that \"a week suspension and a long talk seems appropriate to me. He\'s in his early 20s isn\'t he?\" In the same paragraph, you write that for any jockey that shows up drunk during the day \"it\'s time for a major suspension and treatment program.\" If that\'s not slack, then the word no longer has meaning.
Thanks Caradoc.
I think its done now.
If I remember correctly, his grandmother, who he was very close to, passed away in the summer, which he has had a difficult time dealing with. Having lost my mother this summer, I can understand his venerability. I wish the kid the best – he is hustler on the SOCAL circuit and seems to be a good person off the track as well. My SOCAL connections that have dealt with him have nothing but positive words to say about him.
caradoc,
>\"\"When they start showing up drunk or high for afternoon cards it\'s time for a major suspension and treatment program. When they show up drunk for one evening card, nipping it in the bud seems fine to me. A week suspension and a long talk seems appropriate to me. He\'s in his early 20s isn\'t he?\"<
>>I thought -- apparently mistakenly -- that \"they\" meant all jockeys and you seriously were proposing a different punishment depending on when a jockey had been drinking. I thought that because it is what you wrote -- read it again for yourself. You have to forgive me and quite a few others for thinking you
actually meant what you wrote. \"\"\"\"<<
It\'s still not clear.
I absolutely would advocate different punishments depending on several factors but that is **not the same** as cutting Baez some slack.
I am *not advocating that they cut him any slack* based on his age, maturity level, or the fact that it was an evening infraction. If the rule is 7 days, that seems fine to me. Others may disagree and think it should be stiffer. That would be fine too.
I *would* advocate a *stiffer* penalty than 7 days for anyone that shows up drunk early in the morning because I think it implies a more serious problem. So whatever penalty everyone agrees is appropriate in the Baez case, tack on a treatment program or something like it for morning drinkers. If everyone thinks a treatment program should be required in all cases regardless of time, that\'s fine. My point on this was that IMHO, morning drinking imples or gives greater evidence of a problem that requires more than a suspension and therefore requires a more active solution.
I *would* advocate a stiffer penalty for anyone that is a repeat offender for the same reasons as above.
I didn\'t post any of this to debate what the rules should be. I posted them to suggest that we shouldn\'t be writing the kid off yet because I don\'t see any evidence of a Valenzuela type problem based on this single event. Let\'s hope for the best.
Now can we please put this to rest so I can concentrate on how to bet my opinion that Borrego isn\'t that good and won\'t win the Classic.