Greeleys Galaxy gets a new jock?
Flores for Desormeaux?
What am I missing here?
Isn\'t Desormeaux from Pimlico? Isnt that where he first showed he was a good one?
Hasn\'t he won the Preakness on Real Quiet?
What has Flores done there? Did Desormeaux get another horse?
Additionally, Prado is off Sun King and on High Limit BEFORE Zito\'s announced date for decision on Monday.
Did Zito tell Prado Sun King is not going?
Did Prado decide hes tired of lagging in 10 lengths plus in arrears?
Did Prado pick wrong between Noble Causeway and Sun King?
Stay tuned for the next episode of How the Horse is Hyped.
Post Edited (05-13-05 23:10)
Desormeaux has prior engagement in Japan, I believe.
And Dominguez bailed on High Limit after working Scrappy T on Wed morning.Obviously Frankel didn\'t care-he put Dominguez on Vangelis in the 350k turf stake at Hollywood today.
I\'m guessing High Limit is an owners decision to run.
Sun King needs a vacation-his one good race in his career came off a layoff.That horse isn\'t interested in running right now.
Yes Kent riding for big dollars in Japan.
\"I\'m guessing High Limit is an owners decision to run.\"
Coming from me I know this is going to sound strange, but I think High Limit deserves another chance assuming he\'s physically fit.
IMO, the Derby was a very difficult spot for him given his style and probable distance preference. The Preakness is a lot better.
His BG was a decent performance.
Bellamy Road (quality speed) and Bandini (the horse that trounced him) are out.
Spanish Chestnut (rabbit) is not in the race.
Some people think AA might go backwards.
I think this is the type of race he can either make the lead or sit behind one horse (if Going Wild is in) and give his best or close. There will probably be several pressers to take pot shots at him. So it\'s not going to be easy. But I like his chances a LOT more in Maryland than I did in KY.
>Dominguez bailed<
I don\'t like that though.
I know that what\'s been posted is consistent with published reports, but I wonder if there wasn\'t something going on behind the scenes. My idle speculation would be that Dominguez knew he was likely to lose the mount on High Limit before he committed to Scrappy T (otherwise, ditching Frankel to ride for Bailes would be a questionable career move), and Frankel was aiming to pick up either Prado or Bailey even before Dominguez made his decision.
I hope someone gets the details. If so, please post them.
from what i can tell: with the injury speculation, HL was pretty much out of preakness condsideration early last week. dominguez, being based in maryland, wanted a preakness mount pretty bad, and took the ST mount. i don\'t think he got dumped, he just made an early call so he wouldn\'t get left out. if anything, prado felt dumped by zito. there was bad blood between prado and zito after the blue grass, and zito went to stevens to ride NC in the derby, even though prado wanted the mount. when prado found out that HL was back in the mix, he might have said f..k zito, and went to frankel. i would guess velazquez picks up the SK mount if he runs.
You guys are making the point then missing it. It doesn\'t matter who rides High Limit-- he colt is being trained by his owners Gary and Mary West, and has no shot. Frankel is known for giving horses time when they need it. No way is it Frankel\'s decision to run. After the Derby, Frankel said the Derby purse is not high enough, considering that over 100 million dollars worth of horses would be ruined chasing it.
Galloping Grocer, fresh off an uninspiring THIRD in a NY bred stake, is going to the Preakness?? This colt continues to be incredibly mismanaged. His trainer is well on the way to \"Stuportrainer\" status (saddling 100 or more horses with a win % of less than 5%).
Poor performances by these two animals may be enough to catapult them past Rockport as the most poorly managed 3YO of the year.
Classic handicapping dilemma, race 1, Belmont: Hristoforos clearly is fastest, but quite camera shy with a 1/41 lifetime record.
It is amazing. Everybody on this board \"knows\" that Frankel only entered this horse because \"forced to\" by the owners, despite no evidence at all.
Bologna.
Frankel entered Medaglia D\'Oro back in the Preakness off an \"OK\" 4th, the brought him back in the Belmont off short rest off a miserable Preakness, and he almost won it.
High Limit figures to run better because of the pace setup and he has a shot to win the race. He was the choice in the Derby by JB and others, just because he didn\'t run well in the one race, he didn\'t become a mule. He deserves another shot adn will get it.
jim,
good points.... i have no idea why HL is running, but - the horse has only run five times in his career, the horse has only run three times this year, and the horse only ran hard for six furlongs in the derby. if the horse is good enough he should be running, and he should run well (that\'s a big if though).
Jimbo said\"
It is amazing. Everybody on this board \"knows\" that Frankel only entered this horse because \"forced to\" by the owners, despite no evidence at all.
Bologna!\"
Jim,
Isn\'t that the same as \"baloney\"? If not I\'m going to try Bologna next time.
I pronouce bologna \"baloney\" so its all the same to me.
Frankel would not waste a race he could make good money with somewhere else and he really doesnt need to cater to clients. He\'s not the kind of guy thats gonna let others tell him what to do. High Limit is running because he figures hes got a race in him. I\'m sure Bobby would like to win at least one Preakness before that big equine rehab in the sky calls him home.
Very interesting Michael about the Noble Causeway information. I was not aware of that. What is your source for that story?
Jimbo:
So your point is that if HL runs a miserable Preakness, Frankel has HL right where he wants him for the Belmont?
You guys all lose sight of a lot in your numerical analysis. HL won his first 3 races easily. He was outbroken by one horse and passed by another for the first time in the BG. He was beaten by 19 horses in the Derby. Think outside of whatever the numbers are-- this horse is probably a bit discouraged right now.
If it was Lukas running back HL off that Derby performance we would all be KILLING him over it.
richie,
i can\'t figure out what you are saying here, so i don\'t know why i am responding, but if HL had three easy races (as you say), and there wasn\'t that much energy expended in the derby, why wouldn\'t frankel run him? all of the top figure makers have him competitive in this field. i never liked the horse, but why not give him the chance. as for your comment: \"this horse is probably a bit discouraged right now\" - was that a joke?
Michael:
No I was quite serious when I said the horse is discouraged. Another way of putting it, which sounds even more facetious, is that \"Horses have feelings, too.\" This is why workouts are sometimes \"orchestrated\" (usually a nice horse worked against some competition which is inferior, resulting in the nicer horse pulling away, building up the nicer horse\'s confidence).
I think that any practicing horseperson would tell you that \"confidence\" and \"dis couraged\" are terms that can be used in relation to thoroughbreds.
I do not feel any need to expand on this in that I said BEFORE THE DERBY that the owners were more keen on running than the trainer. The horse ran 20th and last. If you want to tell me that you expect improvement in the Preakness, I agree that mathematically and logically it is unlikely that HL will trail the entire field again.
richie,
HL was my first toss in the derby, who cares? if you know that the owners are calling all the shots here, that is good info. if you are just guessing, it\'s time to stop this charade.
Michael D.
It is not information, it is an inference. My assumption is that last fall Frankel was informed by the Wests that they had a colt with Tony Dutrow and they wanted Frankel to take the colt to the Triple Crown. Mission accomplished. Did I hear the conversation? No. Did I intercept the email? No. Just an inference.
Not a further utterance shall be issued by me concerning these matters. Charade exposed.
the inference is fine. every bettor has to make inferences when trying to figure out this game. i was just a bit confused when you said \"no way is it frankel\'s decision to run.\"
I like to think I have a pretty good handle on jockey behaviour as I alomst married one (it was a chick, wiseguy)
Anyway, I feel that \"where there is smoke there is fire\" in matters such as these. It was in the papers last week that Dominguez was said to have wanted off HL BEFORE the Derby and Frankel was pissed about it.
TAKE THIS TO THE BANK FRIENDS: IF DOMINGUEZ WANTED OFF, THEN THE HORSE IS A CRIPPLE.
Now if its all BS and he never said that, then welcome to handicapping in the new millenium. But I bet $200 on him in the Blue Grass. And another $100 in the Derby. I ain\'t chasing that $300 with another $300 to get 5-2 in the Preakness, I\'ll guarantee you that. Can I get 5-1 on Closing Argument?
P.S. I\'m still a bit groggy, didn\'t High Limit finish LAST in the Derby. How many horses have come back from a last place finish in the Derby to win the Preakness? Without doing any research I would bet a lot that the answer is ZERO. And at 5-2, I\'m not about to gamble High Limit will be the first.
Post Edited (05-14-05 18:23)
RichieBee,
What a dumb comment. Yes, my point is that if High Limit runs up the track in the Preakness, that sets him up for the Belmont.. People have tried to understand your point here, offer the same courtesy back.
My point with the reference to Medaglia D\'Oro is this. Some of your thesis on the owners calling the shots with High Limit is that Frankel doesn\'t run horses back on short rest. Most of us know that, heck Frankel is recently mentioning \"sheets\" every time he gets interviewed. However, he adjusts his scheduling for the Triple Crown, just like the rest of them are forced to do. He ran Medaglia back on short rest twice and he is running High Limit back off a \"non-effort\". Maybe he is up the track, but I will give him a long look. Your prerogative to throw him out immediately.
MO,
5-2 is a bad guess at High Limit\'s odds for the Preakness. He will be triple that or more, almost guaranteedd. Tough to guess at odds for next Saturday\'s race, but here are the over/unders for the horses you mentioned:
Closing Argument 8-1
High Limit 10-1
Jimbo:
I am sorry that my comments re High Limit seemed to agitate both you and Michael D. I apologize for my words and deeds infrequently, but always with sincerity.
In a totally unrelated matter, Michael Hammersly, in Sunday\'s DRF, makes the following observation: \"We\'ve got to get the Derby down to 16 horses. Twenty adds up to nothing but danger and chaos.\"
Comments anyone? By chaos does he mean an unexpected result such as was produced by the 05 Derby? Danger? I know there were some rough trips, but when was the last time there was a spill in the Derby?
Post Edited (05-15-05 02:36)
richiebee wrote:
> In a totally unrelated matter, Michael Hammersly, in Sunday\'s
> DRF, makes the following observation: \"We\'ve got to get the
> Derby down to 16 horses.
Interesting he says 16 horses. Why 16? Thats still an auxilliary gate with 2 horses correct?
Well, I\'ll tell you why he said 16. Its because BOTH Giacomo and Closing Arguement wouldn\'t have qualified if the field was limited to 14 starters. They were 15 and 16 respectively on graded stakes earnings.
So next year Michael, shall we eliminate the Derby Perfecta because a 20 horse field violates your standards of safety? And when the field is limited to 16 and a horse goes down one day and causes a death, shall we reduce it to 6 or 8, or whatever number you deem safe? And then what do we do when it happens again in that 8 horse field?
No wonder horseracing is in trouble. Its populated with crooks and poor decision makers.
Blinkers on for High Limit and Frankel says he\'ll be on the lead.
Dominguez off, he falters at the eighth pole.
High Limit on the lead,High Fly if he goes sitting very close and engaging him on the turn-BOTH milers will be done at the 1/8th pole.
Now who gets the trip sitting in behind them???
Greeleys Galaxy,Closing Argument or Scrappy T? Post positions will be critical here.
Can Greeleys bounce back to his Illinois Derby form? His pattern probably says no,and I\'m not sure his trainer knows what day it is(not a knock on his age),but he was pretty much eliminated in the Derby when he broke bad.
Closing Argument is lightly raced this year,but he was close to a hot pace and was drifting in the stretch.I think it was only a 2 pt new top for him,but the bearing out bothers me.He missed time after the Holy Bull with some sort of an ailment.I\'m not so sure he bounces right back with another good one.
Scrappy T\'s previous top was a 2.5.I\'m just guessing but I think his Withers was better than that,and if so makes him competitive in here at least on #\'s.I\'ll find out Wed night.
Anyone else find it odd that Dominguez was up on HL for the work yesterday?
He rode at Hollywood Saturday and then was back at Delaware for the first race yesterday which was 12:45 or so.No way he went to Churchill to work the horse in between.Has to be bad info.
Michael D.,
Not that this matter much, but Prado was given choice by Zito to ride either Sun King or Noble Causeway. (in DRF prior to Derby) and Prado chose Sun King even after the bad Blue Grass.
NC Tony
From Dave Grening\'s article in the online DRF:
Ramon Dominguez picked up the mount on Scrappy T after being told he was not going to retain the mount on High Limit, on whom Dominguez finished last of 20 in the Derby.
\"I won a few races with High Limit, like the Louisiana Derby,\" Dominguez said. \"There\'s no hard feelings.\"
http://www.drf.com/news/article/65088.html