That should end all this talk about the importance of pace.
:)
Or Keeneland being totally speed biased.
No, Pletcher had this won juiced to the gills. How else could I get beat on a $200 win bet? LOL
No derby horse in that field.
What does the pace discussion have to do with this result? One of the slower TG horses winning?
How many burieds !!!! is TGJB going to have to give out here.
High Limit was horrible today. Perfect trip, then just did nothing in the lane. That the others did even less is amazing.
Beyer,
I\'m a huge fan of speed figures, but it\'s not always how fast they run. As you know, sometimes it\'s how they run fast. I want to review the fractions and replay of this race.
Post Edited (04-16-05 18:01)
>That the others did even less is amazing.
One Derby is worth Five Blue Grass Stakes
CtC,
Did you watch the same race everybody else did?
You watched this race and came to the conclusion that pace decided it?
Gimme a break.
High Limit didn\'t win because he didn\'t have the lead. He rated nicely behind the cheap speed, but he was not good enough. Bandini was the best horse and that is the bottom line.
I over-rated High Limit. Agreed. I was wrong in thinking he might improve into negative territory today. However, he would not have run any better without Spanish Chestnut in the race. Pace didn\'t decide this race, talent did.
I agree CH, but I think this race is coming back weak. The LA Derby looks like more and more of a fraud with each passing race.
\"Pace didn\'t decide this race, talent did.\"
I agree. Bandini was tons the best.
jimbo i saved on that race....i know what i\'m doing shove off.
If SC is not in that race..High Limit in all likelihood wins it. What is it you don\'t understand?
Post Edited (04-16-05 18:11)
From CtC:
jimbo i saved on that race....i know what i\'m doing shove off.
Also from CtC:
I\'m going with Closing Argument and Consolidator as key horses.
Hmmm, what did you save on that race?
Why does anybody listen to anything that comes out of the aptly named clown\'s mouth?
He saved on this race, using the horrible High Limit for 2nd?.
He knows what he is doing........
Can we rename the redboard room, the chuckles the clown room........
I saved the tri and super beyer...if you doubt i covered with bandini...check my rundown on the race...you guys are assholes you know that?
lol
I don\'t doubt anything, I don\'t really care. I actually find your red boarding comical!
I get the feeling jerry & alan would prefer a crowded board over quality.
please take some action in managing the the few that deliberitly abuse their social skills by hiding behind their computers.
As for the ones that seem to keep falling into the same hole....the best way to respond to childish behavior is NOT to respond at all.
PARTYpokerON
We prefer adults to act and behave like adults.
Best post of the day TGAB.
Happens everytime after a few of em lose a race or two.
Post Edited (04-16-05 19:03)
I\'ll tell you what Beyer...from now on, I\'ll only offer commentary on wagers made prefaced by postings of the precise bets. If the post doenst say:
$2 Superfecta 7 - 2,4,5 - 2,4,5-1,2,3,4,5,6 ...I won\'t mention it ex post facto. That prolly sounds like a decent cash to you but I had the 2 and 4 atop it much now more aggressively.
I\'m not gonna mention cashing unless I write like I have written above confirming with you and Jimbo precisely how to bet. To do this I\'ll have to write my wagers down on a text file and copy and paste them just before offtime. However, if I\'m gonna go through the trouble to document the precise nature of my wagers, I\'m going to expect the same from you Beyer, because if we are gonna laugh at my wagers and belly rumble, its only logical that we get a look at yours so we can really guffaw. I mean eyes watering hysterically, because I love to laugh. I\'m a clown. :)
On the other hand, it may be easier for me to go about my business. I don\'t need this board and I\'m not a big believer in an all important view of mass produced speed figures. If I\'m not mistaken a 3.3 horse won the race in question, although I know most of the guys that caught it here, caught it on Pletcher and not the subtleties of what actually got him up. Thats in my favor and its why guys like Beyer and Jimbo are not worth wasting my time.
This may be my last post. But if it is, I\'ll leave you with one last gem. Contemplate the nature of Bellamy Roads Wood and Gulfstream races.
CtMC
Post Edited (04-16-05 19:28)
>Contemplate the nature of Bellamy Roads Wood and Gulfstream races.
I did and one word came to mind.
FAST
CtC
You\'ll have forgive Jimbo 666. A few months ago, he accused me of \"Red Boarding\" because I love the BIG bet. That very next week,I gave out a cold superfecta bomb. Mr. 666 got off my case. CtC,it\'s your turn. I enjoy your posts as much,if not more than any of the other posters. I\'m starting to believe that Jimbo 666 wasn\'t breast fed as a baby.
p.s. Some days you get the bear and some days the bear gets you !!!!!!! Hang in brother, Jimbo can be saved!!!!!
Spa,
I have no idea what you are even talking about. The \"BIG\" bet? \"Superfecta Bomb\"?
Chuckles posts are pathetic and the track record is there. He mentions 2 \"key\" horses, neither runs, then he posts after the race that he won. The La Derby he hated High Limit, never mentioned Vicarage, but then had the exacta later. Today in the BlueGrass he criticized High Limit again, liked Consolidator and somehow saved with the Superfecta and Trifecta.
If you also search the page here you will see where Chuckles claims to have hit about 12 of the last 15 Kentucky Derbies.
This is a board for adults and handicapping discussions, at least as far as I know. Not for guys who have nothing in their lives going for them so they claim after every race that they hit and cashed.
You know what Chuckles (and Spa), if it makes you feel better, I believe both of you hit every race no matter what you say on this board. Maybe both of you are posting \"false comments\" in hopes of getting better prices.
And I was breast fed as a baby, Spa, thanks for asking.
This board gets uglier when Jerry is on vacation.
CTC, You\'re ridiculous. He rated nicely, inherited the lead, and just wasn\'t good enough. Give me a break about the pace.
ctc, apparantly someone is catching all of the \"subleties\" since the horse was 3-1. Lets not get crazy about that bet. It seems to me you bet $108 when you said you only liked him for a saver at 5-1. you got paid a bit higher than a straight win bet but you had to risk too much to make it worth it.
Gowand, that was not my prime bet. I only saved on it. It cost 48 dollars, which was acceptable for the return. The problem was that wasn\'t my only bet. I thought only one of three horses could win. Closing Argument, Consolidator or Bandini and favored them in that order. I\'ll concede to not having a firm theory on the race.
In hindsight the race spacing and foot issue I didn\'t hold against Closing Argument, due to previous spacing, appears to have worked against him. I think he regressed and I played him to run a 2 or better. Consolidator was a complete enigma. Why he couldn\'t move into those fractions (they were hot) is beyond me. I didn\'t hold the breezing works against him, but perhaps as stated here they were too fast. He liked the track, maybe he bounced.
As far as Bandini goes, He was coming on against High Fly in the prior. He was progressing on pattern. But there were pace and positioning factors in the Bluegrass as well and he was well drawn for the day in question. He caught a lot of breaks that race and you\'re right 3-1 wasn\'t a very good price, but he figured to move into the 2 range as well and may have exceeded that. At least with Bandini and Afleet Alex you know their numbers are legit.
CtC
jimbo66 wrote:
> Spa,
>
> I have no idea what you are even talking about. The \"BIG\" bet?
> \"Superfecta Bomb\"?
Spa, jimbo66 is old and he obviously has selective memory and alzheimers. I\'m pretty sure the 66 refers to his age. Now that 66 is all that old for some folks. I\'ve seen older than that able to make mincemeat outta young handicappers.
> Chuckles posts are pathetic and the track record is there. He
> mentions 2 \"key\" horses, neither runs, then he posts after the
> race that he won.
Actually Chuckles the Magnificent Clown mentioned 3 key horses. One that made him very leary, which he said he would cover with. With Alzheimers the victim many times omits things.
>The La Derby he hated High Limit, never
> mentioned Vicarage, but then had the exacta later.
Once again, theres some distortion here. Chuckles the Magnificent Clown had an evolving position on the La.Derby as the chronological posts below indicate:
Author: Chuckles_the_Clown2
Date: 03-11-05 14:01
The outside here may not be quite as much of an impediment as first appears. K.C. Boy in all likelihood isn\'t gonna change his running style, especially off that last workout, so blinkers or no blinkers if he\'s not engaged early I\'ll be very surprised.
Personally I think the scratch/ship was a significant mistake. He obviously likes the Fair Grounds, but I\'m not entirely sure he wasn\'t relishing Hallandale. He\'d already beaten the horse that won the FOY and the end of the line comes awful quick for these guys this time of year. I\'d have sought the Grade II black type there. The reason he\'s been competitive to my eye is that he\'s saved ground his last three races. Add the weight, wide and diminished distance and long stretch (which means tight turns by the way) and this is a horse I\'d be very leary of at short odds and I think thats what you\'re gonna get.
Author: Chuckles_the_Clown2
Date: 03-11-05 18:39
Wow,
He\'s much faster on TFigs than anything else.
Interesting.
I don\'t know, if I was a devout TFig user, I think I\'d have to look real hard at High Limit. Those TFig may have me off the race...lol
Author: Chuckles_the_Clown2
Date: 03-12-05 13:07
...
Last night, I read the most ridiculous statement from Frankel and its still got me scratching my head. Frankel got High Limit in November and was pointing him to the Hollywood Futurity but he was off for some reason. But what Frankel just said is that he just looked at High Limits past performances a couple days ago and didn\'t realize he goes to the front. Does anyone believe that? If its true hasn\'t he been awfully disengaged with this horse? This same story said they dont know what they have. Well, either thats true or they are really tellin a whopper for some reason. Why tell a whopper? To play coy about stealing off quickly? I\'m intrigued with what trainers say and why the heck they say it and its got nothing to do with the truth of what is said. This time, I have no freakin idea what these guys may or may not be doing.
Author: Chuckles_the_Clown2
Date: 03-12-05 14:46
Yeah, I tend to agree with you Allan...I think he intends to put everyones guard down and try and wire this one. This is a go go horse. I think hes gonna get the lead and its gonna a question of how hard K.C. Boy wants to go after it. I think Bailey will get a bit more out of Storm Surge but he\'ll make his move later if hes able to.
The closers success will obviously depend upon the pace and how the track is playing. Scipion doesnt have to win here for his effort to be progressive and I\'m not projecting a bounce. If Frankels horse runs a 2 or 3 with the ground saving issue, he figures to be very tough. I\'ll be surprised if hes more than about 3-2.
Author: Chuckles_the_Clown2
Date: 03-12-05 16:36
...
The Frankel horse had a lot go his way. The pace looked marginal to me, but it half figured to. The track was quick and the come from behinds were compromised and didn\'t fire. They ran 1-2-3 around the track on those tepid fractions.
Which is not to say this might not be a good horse.
Now CtMC did not come right out and say \"Im betting High Limit\" Thats certainly true. But as you can see he wasn\'t high on K.C.Boy, Storm Surge and questioned Scipions ability to close in the race. I believe TGraph gave High Limit a 1 on the race and as high as a 3 would have won it for him since he was clear by 4 lengths. CtMC is not very bright.
> Today in
> the BlueGrass he criticized High Limit again,
Yes, this is true CtMC was convinced High Limit could not win the Bluegrass and went two deep with a saver. Mr. Alzheimers got this correct.
> Chuckles claims to have hit about 12 of the last 15 Kentucky Derbies.
Actually its 6 and they have come in groups of three. The last three picked on this board. If I never win another Derby I\'m going to die a winner on that race.
> This is a board for adults and handicapping discussions, at
> least as far as I know. Not for guys who have nothing in their
> lives going for them so they claim after every race that they
> hit and cashed.
Actually jimbo I\'ve had a very full life, but am touched by your concern..thank you.
> You know what Chuckles (and Spa), if it makes you feel better,
> I believe both of you hit every race no matter what you say on
> this board. Maybe both of you are posting \"false comments\" in
> hopes of getting better prices.
jimbo, lay down and tell us about your mother.
> And I was breast fed as a baby, Spa, thanks for asking.
now we\'re gettin somewhere.
Post Edited (04-17-05 14:19)
WOW !!!!!!