Racetracks can tell us that the pools are closed at the bell. But Mike Maloney has stated he had proof when he did the Bet with the Best Podcast that pools have been left open for significant portion of races at times. So we can\'t take them at their word.
So, when a retail bettor is aggrieved by the Odds Drop and the odds on the screen on the backstretch are 7-2 with a horse stalking in 2nd and then when they hit the wire and the horse has won and the horse is now 2-1, a gambler can file a petition alleging that the pools were not closed in time as an aggrieved party. Between the past history of pools being left open combined with the video proof that the odds are less after the race has started would surely be enough to survive a Motion to Dismiss.
Add in a Count in the petition about treating the CRW\'s unequally by not applying the mandated takeout to all their customers also.
And then, at least on count 1 if we survive a Motion to Dismiss, we can get into Discovery. And let\'s find out if the CAW\'s or CRW\'s are putting bets in after the bell. Does their Extra access entitle them to an extra 22 seconds into a race? There have been enough of these that end up fortuitous to make one wonder that this isn\'t just technology being slow. Plus we all know we can\'t trust these folks running the tracks. They have made it beyond obvious by now.
Someone needs to say enough is enough and we are going to get to the bottom of what goes on in these pools. Find out about CRW\'s percentage of handle, Find about the deals between the tracks and the teams exactly, find out the names of everyone involved, find out every detail we can . . . all through discovery in this lawsuit. Something tells me that this would make some real problems for the folks involved and possibly straighten some things out.
In particular, one company probably is the 1st one that should be considered as a Defendant although I\'ve seen it even last week at Oaklawn. It was a blatant example where the odds shift was never anticipated based on any of the projected odds and no one would ever see it based on the PP\'s and the connections.
Someone that bets LARGE needs to file this suit with a specific example that they can show using their ADW and just video evidence of the odds drop. Tell me the downside for someone taking a shot at this to get to discovery.
My friends and I regularly discuss this topic. For example, last Monday at Oaklawn, we liked Daily Grind, a Lukas-trained horse. We used him heavily with a Brad Cox runner in Exactas. When the gates opened, Daily Grind was 15-1. He was beaten a nose for a second but was 5-1 when he crossed the wire, and the probable exacts dropped considerably.
I agree this needs to be addressed
Fairmount-while I appreciate your frustration and anxiety over the CAW related issues, there are several reasons , based on the information in your post, while such a lawsuit will fail. At its heart, such a lawsuit sounds in fraud. Any lawsuit asserting a claim of fraud must be pled with specificity. You cannot plead a claim for fraud based on an allegation that begins “ Upon information and belief ( the pools closed after the race commenced).†So when the motion to dismiss is made and Fairmount ( or whoever the plaintiff is) submits an affidavit in opposition to the motion to dismiss it will be bereft of facts and strong on anger and frustration. Second, the plaintiff in this mythical lawsuit is at risk for sanctions for commencing a lawsuit with zero facts to back up such a claim.( and this does not begin to address the fact that the defendant(s), may, if they choose, submit documentary evidence demonstrating there was no past posting. Third, of course, is the funding of such a lawsuit. That sort of speaks for itself. I do have one question for all the posters who continue to rail at the CAW mess. I understand your passion, history and love of the game. Simply stop betting for a bit. Not any of you specially, but bettors as a whole. We have historically shown the ability to be abused and come back for more. The irony is WE THE BETTORS, control the game. Without us,the racetrack owners, trainers, breeders etc are out of business. If you love the game, try the various contests ( Horseplayers or HORSETOURNEYS.com. They are fun, profitable and actually assist in managing your bankroll and the joy of getting into the NHC or BCBC is cool. You can continue to play as often as you like, and as Thorograph sheet users you start with an immediate advantage over many of the contestants. I am older than probably all of you and my love of the game goes back to my first bet at Yonkers Raceway in 1964. You all have the power to force these changes. I have had these conversations with TGJB as well. WTF do you have to lose? Marshall Gramm and his ilk ain’t going away anytime soon. Sincere good luck.Richard
I would add this:
If someone seriously wants to boycott, don’t do it individually, and don’t spread it around. Organize a group of people who bet decent money, and announce publicly you are going to not bet this track, on this day. The following week, that track, on that day. That way the decision makers can track what happens to handle.
Sign me up.
What tracks seem to be more egregious in this practice? Those should be boycotted.
In the McKnight on Pegasus Day, I was watching Dashman bounce around between 35-1 and 40-1 for 3 minutes as the field was lining up behind the gate on the backstretch. I\'m 100% sure he was 38-1 walking into the gate 9 (and last to load). I figured I needed some value from that post in that field and was hoping Geroux would send. He sure did and held on BUT... I was \"rewarded and robbed\" at 19-1! We\'re taking a 4 figure robbery here. Just unconscionable. NYRA (or boycott) is the only option with this issue and I\'m sad the TGPS program is now with Stronach. I\'m sure TG tried to save the NYRA deal.
It would have to be a concerted effort. Having been on strike in my profession twice in the last 8 years, for over 8 weeks striking each strike, it would take probably all the tracks. One day without any handle, at every track. A weekend with multiple derby preps, would be ideal.
It would take a village , but there is strength in numbers, and it would not take 8 weeks. They probably would get the message after one day!
Hell, if we sat out a week, we probably could get all types of concessions.
Lower takeout, free pp\'s, shut out all CAW\'s 2 minutes before post at all tracks.
Who is John Galt?
Hah!
If you spread it over a number of tracks at the same time, instead of a narrowly focused action, it absolutely will not work. It might not even if done right.
TGJB Wrote:
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> If you spread it over a number of tracks at the
> same time, instead of a narrowly focused action,
> it absolutely will not work. It might not even if
> done right.
What about Churchill Downs and NYRA teaming up and suing Belinda Stronach for her specious and false claims that urban horseracing is bad for the health of horses? While her intention was obviously to damage California and Florida horseracing in order to release and free her properties from a burden she has lost interest in - her comments went way farther than attacking her own problems. Racing in Kentucky and NY are going to end up being severely damaged by her comments. Do you need to wait for the damage to happen? Wait for the renewed PETA actions - congressional hearings - etc? How does HISA respond to something like her comments? Her comments are obviously false, are obviously intended to damage business why isnt she a legitimate target of a law suit? Fortunately, she has a very deep pocket in all the valuable real estate she is trying to monetize. it seems to me litigating the question of whether or not urban horseracing is good or bad for horses\' health is a great last hill to stand on. If you lose, you were goign to lose anyway and all you did was hasten that ultimate demise - but if you win - you have huge wind in your sails and a lot of positive help going on. This lawsuit seems to me to be the great final battle at the gates of Mordor that those of us who love the sport have been waiting for. If Churchill Downs and NYRA wont bring the lawsuit, do their customers have any standing to bring the lawsuit? Maybe rather than trying to put together a boycott that may or may not be organized right or may or may not amount to a hill of beans, such a lawsuit could be a great rallying cry for horseplayers to join together and show they are somebody.
That\'s funny.