While Social Media drones on about the ability of influencers to attract fans and all the good and bad things about racing, Twin Spires took immediate action today to end their ADW being used by Missouri residents and in Missouri. Action that probably negatively affects the game I\'d say. I think New Hampshire had the same situation in November 2022 when TS quit their operations there.
For at least the last 8 years or so, Twin Spires allowed Missouri residents to maintain a betting account with them through the Twin Spires app. This afternoon they ceased such operation in Missouri. The number of texts, emails, and phone calls that I received within that hour was more than I would have ever anticipated. I only have speculation about what transpired and how people will adjust that can.
No other ADW has ever operated in Missouri. It seems very clear that it is not legal in Missouri but there is an ever so slight couple of words that would give one a belief there is a 1 out of 500 shot it is legal. I guess that was enough for Twin Spires to play Catch me If you Can or I dare you to take us down. My guess is that The Missouri AG office notified them to cease and desist immediately or prior to February 1st. That\'s speculation. I also wonder if it is due to the fact that sports betting is being considered here or maybe competitors of Twinspires decided to alert the authorities. I have no idea but it is a disappointing day for folks in this state that play the races.
I would expect that while Fairmount is still open (for simulcasting and live racing again in April) that the Saturday afternoon crowd will grow somewhat. Some in Missouri are too far to go there to bet but the STL crowd I already know is probably going to adjust by crossing the Mighty Mississippi to get their bets down in Collinsville.
For those of you in a state where you can at least gamble on horse racing, things are better for you than you realized. And for those seeking info on how to attract fans, probably lost more dollars per year today than Alix attracted to the game at Gulfstream on Pegasus Day.
Who is Alix?
Middle weight champ in the 80s I believe
Alix Earle. She’s an internet influencer who did the “Riders Up†before the Pegasus.
Got it, thought it was some dude , makes sense now, thanks. Never heard of her.
This is a fantastic reference to the golden age of middleweight boxing: Arguello, Pryor, Hagler, Hearns, Leonard...
Well played sir.
Some great fighters for sure.
Probably have to add Roberto Duran to this list. The \"Hands of Stone\" was champion
lightweight/welterweight/middleweight if I am not mistaken. He split two fights
with Leonard, was beaten by both Hearns and Hagler.
So glad I live in NYS, where I can gamble legally on just about anything I want.
I remember listening to Floyd Patterson fighting Ingemar Johansson on the radio in the early 60\'s which is odd because I can\'t remember what I had for breakfast this morning. I haven\'t given boxing a thought for over 40 years now.
I just hope this isn\'t going to happen to horse racing which is dying a slow death. I guess I should be thankful that I won\'t be around to see it because this is such a wonderful sport with great athletes both human and equine.
Interestingly, here\'s coverage in Women\'s Wear Daily (!) focusing on Alix Earle (who grew up near Monmouth) and the party: https://wwd.com/eye/parties/pegasus-world-cup-baccarat-calvin-harris-alix-earle-miami-1236161458/
1/ST\'s Pete Rotondo was on with me this week and noted that NBC\'s ratings were very good for the telecast and that they tracked audience increases corresponding to Earle\'s communication efforts on IG and TikTok.
I understand veteran players being irked by initiatives like this and the game being marketed as a \'lifestyle\', but it can\'t hurt. Many of the pro athletes in the game (Erik Johnson, Alex Bregman, Jake Ballis, Jake Delhomme, etc.) are bringing teammates in as owners and players through big day exposure.
Former Churchill head Bob Evans flew a gaggle of CEO\'s in to Louisville several years ago for a carefully orchestrated Derby Weekend experience that resulted in some of them getting into the sport as owners/bettors.
Does it really matter how we introduce racing to the uninitiated as long as we hook some of them on the game? At the same time of course, we can\'t lose sight of the everyday player by doing everything possible to offer an engaging on track product at a reasonable price.
Steveâ€" since when is Rotondo with TSG? News to me.
There was a time when he, I, Serling and Heyward were the only Manhattanites in the industry. Back then he was with the Breeders Cup, and when they made the (then) permanent decision to keep it in California, he once met me specifically to ask me not to blast that decision in this space.
Good guy, one of the ones who gets it.
Before I step out the door to re-ignite the Saturday afternoon simulcast tradition at Fairmount, I will try to briefly respond to Steve\'s \"it can\'t hurt\" point.
Racing needs to start reversing the trends they started by taking \"real\" action and using the dollars allocated to an \"Alix\" to chase the young, male sports bettors and start fixing the game. It won\'t happen though.
1. TGJB\'s point that the BC in Cali every f*&*(ing year doesn\'t help is a good start. After all, why would people in the other parts of the country want to see the championship races??
2. NYRA lists 20 states they don\'t provide NYRA Bets to right now. How about allocating the Alix money to lobby for those easier states to make Online gambling and ADW action legal? While Missouri might not be one, there are 19 other states to chase to find the right type customers.
3. Super-trainers. How about we limit trainers to one entrant per race? Esp stakes races? Before everyone screams OMG, the field size is bad enough. . . the owners will be forced to spread out to other trainers. A Derby with 20 different trainers is more interesting to me than one with Four Pletchers, 2 Chad\'s, 3 Steve\'s, and 4 Brad\'s. MSW races have good owners that get excluded b/c the super trainer entered 3 that made the main body while little trainer is on the AE.
If horse racing would start looking at REAL changes and these are just quick thoughts, then maybe the game could improve. Alix ain\'t saving the game but while it doesn\'t hurt, neither do the ideas I just posed... but no one will even consider one of these 3 any time soon.
How about someone tackle the Cali problems with something besides higher takeout would be another spot to take some real change....list goes on and on.
They paid Alix to go to the races?
I might be getting old, I’m 48. I don’t use Tik Tok, neither do my nieces,nephews and my own son. While she may have 6 million views about her day at the races that apparently she was paid to attend, how many racing fans and bettors will be had from this promotion called “Alixâ€.
I read the article on woman’s daily, and it seems like the party was nice, but barely mentions anything about the racing except for her losing money until she hit the last race.
And this is all measurable, how many new fans were created by this promotion.
How many new accounts at Adw’s were created. How many are watching and betting the races this week. How many are not tuning in till next years Pegasus.
Sounds like it was a great party with some racing before hand. I understand since the renovation at GP limits the on track crowd, the attendance was only 12k .
Not sure the ROI on this event , is going to be positive.
Lifelong racing fan and love the sport, but the only parts of the broadcast I watched was the races, while flipping back and forth on the tele. Could care less about Iavarone’s fashion , what ever happened to the shirt and tie?, the racing is the product, not what people are wearing.
Is the Kentucky Derby about 20 three year olds racing for immortality, or is it about the hats.
Hate to sound old and grumpy, but I would bet 90 percent of racing fans would agree. Paying someone who is not a racing fan to be a racing fan for a day, and tell all her “follower’s†what a great day she had, because they are paying her to have a great day, is not a strategy that is going to bring more fans to the game.
If she went to the track every week , organically, maybe. I don’t see it happening.
Again with only 12k people in attendance, which I believe was sold out, what is there goal? To get 14k there next year and put tents in the infield and parking lot.
The whole event is overpriced and marketed to a small slice of the population, mostly people that are extremely wealthy, and could care less about the racing.
Agreed but we have to realize what other sports are doing such as the NFL with Nickelodeon is working it’s your kids world we just live in it lol says this 49 year old
That’s one of the best ideas I have ever heard. Racing on Nickelodeon for kids.
Think about it. All kids are in awe of the presence of a horse. And how many horseplayers and fans were brought up going to races as kids, with grandparents,parents, teachers or just friends.
Who has not placed a wager on horses at an early age? I have. Cashing one was always the problem if you went to the wrong teller. Have placed wagers for my family’s youth.
It is harder making new fans at 25-30 years of age, than making new fans at a young age.
For example, if I was not exposed to football and basketball in pre-school, would Walter Payton and the 85 Bears be the greatest football team ever, or Jordan and the Bulls? It had every kid and every adults attention in the entire city.
It was close to indoctrination as you could get. Why is it I still root for the Bears, even though I despise the owners, because of the history and respect you learn as a child for the team.
And trying to recall another race fan that has not loved it since there youth, I can’t think of many I know personally.
It’s the racing , the beautiful and graceful animals, the good horse can come from anywhere and often do, that anyone can be involved, that some of the best and kindest people grace this sport, that it is by far the best sport and best form of gaming around, the history of the sport, the history of the horse, the bond between man and beast, that is what needs to be told and sold.
And by the way, I know it is Cicero Illinois, but on Hawthorne and Sportsman’s biggest race days and nights, both breeds, everyone dressed nice, but fashion wasn’t a priority except for Racetrack Rosie.
Sell the story and the sport. To kids.
100%
they are are already selling stuff to the kids, and it ain\'t horseracing
To be honest if you were young(er) would you choose horse racing over sports betting ?
I would , 100 percent, the pari mutuel wagering is better than fixed odds in my opinion. Who wants to bet a hundred to get back 90 dollars on the bet?
The parlay odds are atrocious, and anybody ever bet in game? The odds change faster than you can input your bet.
We need sports betting marketing and all the free bets and money back wagers like they do to encourage more churn.
Duran fought Leonard three times.
Roman Wrote:
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> I would , 100 percent, the pari mutuel wagering is
> better than fixed odds in my opinion. Who wants to
> bet a hundred to get back 90 dollars on the bet?
>
> The parlay odds are atrocious, and anybody ever
> bet in game? The odds change faster than you can
> input your bet.
>
> We need sports betting marketing and all the free
> bets and money back wagers like they do to
> encourage more churn.
Parlays are for suckers, just like racing has some awful bets.
As far as your first statement, its relative. Its easy to say who wants to make 90 for 100, as if 15-1 shots grow on trees. Lots of racing winners don\'t offer much better.
I\'ve been a racing bettor for close to 40 years. A serious sports handicapper for 15.
Betting on sports is FAR more profitable than horse racing. You haven\'t even mentioned the ridiculous takeouts.
I make thousands a year betting on sports. I wish the NFL played 52 weeks a year.
I have had some profitable days at the track, and nothing is more FUN than betting on horse racing. Its not effing close. But I also know its an extremely tough game for the average person to win. My sports winnings dwarf my racetrack winnings in my lifetime.
Today\'s generation wants action and they want it NOW. Live bets, same game parlays, all the other bullshit. I NEVER hear ANYONE under 40 even mention horse racing.
Until racing finds a way to market to the younger generation, the decline will continue. I have taken many to the track, and they have a great time. But it isn\'t something that makes them want to wager everyday.
All of this social media crap and \"fun time\" at the races........its about gambling. Period.
Until they can find a way to have people put money thru the windows, nothing else matters.
NFL use to be enjoyable and profitable to wager on it was just two teams.
Now it’s both teams and the refs.
I’ve had serious thoughts about it being scripted.
Good Luck
John
About being scripted, Interference by Dan Moldea is a good read, and The podcast Whistleblower about NBA ref Tim Donaghy.
Just finished reading Billy Walters book about sports betting and other gaming. He killed it in sports betting, and I agree it can be profitable for many. I find it more rewarding picking a winner in a race, and cashing a ticket on a pick 3/4/5/6s, then picking the winner of the super bowl, I like the Chiefs by the way.
Just hoping the game survives , and thrives. With sports betting becoming a monster, one has to worry that it might be the final nailin the coffin. You can see the regression of the sport when other forms of gaming became legal like the lottery, casinos and slot machines and now sports betting.
I read Tim\'s book Personal Foul. He said the FBI hooked him up to a lie detector test and asked - Did Dick Bavetta ever tell you he was the NBA\'s \"go-to guy\" who could deliver the results the league wanted? Tim replied yes. He passed. Dick was one of the refs in the infamous Lakers-Sacramento game 6 in 2002. Funny thing in the book-it included a copy of a letter Ralph Nader sent to David Stern asking for an investigation into that game.
P-Dub:
you\'re a rare one for sure. Never knew anyone that made a mentionable profit on sports betting. Assuming equal amounts wagered there are very few going 6-4 or better on their next 10 plays.
FYI: I like the Niners on Sunday. Another chance for Shanahan to blow an insurmountable lead in the 4th quarter.
Good Luck,
Joe B
The FBI agent on the podcast stated that the investigation into it was stooped by Stern. He made a pro-wrestling comparison , WWF type wrestling, that the games are scripted just like that. And it would be the end of pro sports if the public found out.
Mark Cuban new it, and use to state it quite often. Like most of the ref\'s come from a single city/county in Pennsylvania.
Check out these stats about the Chiefs/Ravens game , and look at the outcome.
https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/betting/chiefs-ravens-shawn-smith-referee-trends-impact/
Just bought the book, thanks for the heads up.
Maybe TGJB should start a book club , about racing, betting & sports!
yes, we did, and we bet all the sports too. Bet a hundred to win a hundred, not for me then, and not now
jbelfior Wrote:
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> P-Dub:
>
> you\'re a rare one for sure. Never knew anyone that
> made a mentionable profit on sports betting.
> Assuming equal amounts wagered there are very few
> going 6-4 or better on their next 10 plays.
>
> FYI: I like the Niners on Sunday. Another chance
> for Shanahan to blow an insurmountable lead in the
> 4th quarter.
>
>
> Good Luck,
> Joe B
I put in a LOT of time handicapping daily sports, and the NFL has been a consistent money maker for me and those that follow me.
I\'m successful because I put in the time. Most don\'t or can\'t.
Last 2 years NFL:
2022
PLAYOFFS
9-5-1 (+3.5) 64.2%
FINAL REG SEASON RECORD
TOP: 40-25-2 (+25.2) 61.5%
REG: 80-55-2 (+19.5) 59.2%
All:120-80-3 (+44.7) 60%
BEST BET: 14-3-1 (+21.4) 82.3% (One Per Week)
2023:
FINAL REGULAR SEASON
Best Bet: 6-2 (+11.4) 75%
Top Play: 19-10-2 (+16.0) 65.5%
Reg Play: 84-64-5 (+13.6) 56.7%
ALL PLAYS: 109-76 (+41.0) 58.9%
Best Bet win percentage is impressive. I\'m assuming, as with betting the horses, the amount wagered is different based on your confidence level?
Good Luck,
Joe B.
jbelfior Wrote:
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> Best Bet win percentage is impressive. I\'m
> assuming, as with betting the horses, the amount
> wagered is different based on your confidence
> level?
>
>
> Good Luck,
> Joe B.
Yes
Best Bets are 2X bets
Yeah, much better to play the horses and bet $100 to win what you think is $500, but at post time it turns out to be $200, or you just lose the $100 outright.
As far as \"scripted\", the idea that you\'d keep the hundreds of people involved in such a conspiracy quiet is ludicrous. Influenced, maybe, but scripted?
If you ever meet a pro athlete, someone who has given their body to a sport, ask him if it\'s scripted.
That was not my statement, it was from the FBI agent in that case. And I have met several Pro Players, Gayle Sayers was a great & frequent customer of mine, as was Tony Kukoc and numerous others.
Most Pro Wrestlers are & were fantastic athletes, and that is scripted, but that does not take away from there athletic abilities.
As for keeping the conspiracy quiet, I always thought the same thing. How many people would keep quiet. Just look at horse racing and how many people in the industry do not speak up when they see wrongdoing. Not many.
Is everything that NBA ref says is true? Of course not, but there is evidence of some meddling in the results of the game.
Fixing games has nothing to do with anybody\'s athletic abilities.
P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jbelfior Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Best Bet win percentage is impressive. I\'m
> > assuming, as with betting the horses, the
> amount
> > wagered is different based on your confidence
> > level?
> >
> >
> > Good Luck,
> > Joe B.
>
>
> Yes
>
> Best Bets are 2X bets
What a game.
Roman I hope you cashed.
Shanahan again. The guy\'s a master at it.
Congrats if you had KC. I lost my lungs on the Niners. It was like betting against Hulk Hogan or The Rock. Roger\'s \"Entertainment League.\"
Good Luck,
Joe B.
I did, thanks, unbelievable game. I turned $10 into a $485 profit, using the free bets from Draftkings & fanduel under the wife\'s name. If Pacheco or Kelce scored, would of been looking at about 8k in winnings, and I would be at home today instead of work.
Hedged a little on SF, would of cashed about $1500 if SF won. Had fun betting the big game, it was like a 3 hour horse race. Couldn\'t sleep afterwards thinking about the woulda, coulda should . Glad I only play sparingly, watching games you bet on take a lot out of you.
Now it is time for derby fever. And I got it
jbelfior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shanahan again. The guy\'s a master at it.
>
> Congrats if you had KC. I lost my lungs on the
> Niners. It was like betting against Hulk Hogan or
> The Rock. Roger\'s \"Entertainment League.\"
>
>
> Good Luck,
> Joe B.
This is ridiculous, and a lazy narrative
P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jbelfior Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Shanahan again. The guy\'s a master at it.
> >
> > Congrats if you had KC. I lost my lungs on the
> > Niners. It was like betting against Hulk Hogan
> or
> > The Rock. Roger\'s \"Entertainment League.\"
> >
> >
> > Good Luck,
> > Joe B.
>
> This is ridiculous, and a lazy narrative
This is the world we live in half truths and beliefs treated as facts
And those athletes only have two legs. Not for me
If it’s scripted it should be easy to pick winners, no?
The problem with conspiracy theories of this sort is that they require an absurd level of operational security, which simply couldn\'t be maintained.
Moon landing? The Soviets don\'t dispute it, so they\'re in on it.
Contrails? All the pilots and ground crew keep it hush hush.
2020 election? The Secretaries of State, election workers, ballot printers, truck drivers, all on the take.
This, in a world where people\'s affairs end up on X within the week.
Happy Valentine’s Day ðŸ˜,ðŸ˜,
PS
If you can’t see the amount of $$ that Swift brought to the NFL and can’t connect those dots. Don’t know what to tell ya.
Good Luck
John
ajkreider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with conspiracy theories of this sort
> is that they require an absurd level of
> operational security, which simply couldn\'t be
> maintained.
>
> Moon landing? The Soviets don\'t dispute it, so
> they\'re in on it.
>
> Contrails? All the pilots and ground crew keep it
> hush hush.
>
> 2020 election? The Secretaries of State, election
> workers, ballot printers, truck drivers, all on
> the take.
>
> This, in a world where people\'s affairs end up on
> X within the week.
This should be posted everywhere ..but unfortunately your “crazy†uncle with his crazy theories are beginning to outnumber us
Well if you believe the governments story of JFK, then good for you.
My pronouns are
“I told you soâ€
\"Tell\" is a verb.
Roman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> \"Tell\" is a verb.
Also a noun.
In that sentence?
Whatever it is
Need Taylor to date a jockey.
Or buy a horse or a racing stable.
don\'t foget - also a great \"overture\"