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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: TGJB on October 29, 2023, 01:51:32 PM

Title: Biting my tongue…
Post by: TGJB on October 29, 2023, 01:51:32 PM
…but it ain’t working.

There are only a couple of times a year I even glance at the Jake sheets, but I gave their pre entires a quick glance. Just a couple of things I saw with a 5 minute run through (literally):

Algiersâ€" Jake has his last, at Woodbine, 4 points (about 8 lengths) FASTER than his second in the World Cup. That’s only off by 11-12 points.

Arcangelo-  according to Jake, this horse’s best race by far was his maiden win. They have his Belmont and Travers wins both about 2 points slower, and have him never getting back to his March top. Tailing off, not going forward, as the year has gone on.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: prist on October 29, 2023, 02:06:17 PM
Re: ARCANGELO

I take it you like the 1/2 point move in the Travers. Thanks. ;-)
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: TGJB on October 29, 2023, 02:42:50 PM
My comments will be in the seminar.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Roman on October 29, 2023, 03:44:41 PM
Don’t want to pile on, but I will. Looking at those sheets for five minutes gives me a headache. If they were written in Arabic, they would be easier to read. They have not changed, or added any significant information that a player needs. Only thing that increases is the price.

JB, is it true that the other guys used to promote there product by using a race that a ringer ran in, and they still took credit for the outcome and the extraordinary payout?
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: TGJB on October 29, 2023, 03:55:54 PM
Don’t know.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Gary Irish on October 29, 2023, 04:47:40 PM
Roman Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
> JB, is it true that the other guys used to promote
> there product by using a race that a ringer ran
> in, and they still took credit for the outcome and
> the extraordinary payout?

The short answer is NO. There is a recounting of a ringer named Lebon circa 1977 who ran a buried race on dirt before crushing a field on turf at 57-1 with Sheets players cleaning up.

It later came out the horse was actually Cinzano, a champion 3yo in Uruguay.

They had no knowledge of the chicanery and won as a result of deduction. Pages 279-281 in The Odds.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: TGJB on October 29, 2023, 05:46:19 PM
Gary, you have no idea how much of that book is bullshit, by both commission and omission.

I was still a young guy in that office in 1977, there were only about 5 or 6 of us using Lens figures, and no copy machineâ€" we all shared the file cards, and sat at the track together. Is it possible Friedman or someone else cashed a small bet on that horse and I didn\'t know about it? Yes. Sheetsplayers cleaned up? That would have been me, and no. And as opposed to you, and Jake, and the other guppies on the Jake Board, I was actually there.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Gary Irish on October 29, 2023, 06:25:28 PM
Geez Jerry

I\'ve never been called a guppy before. Should I take offense?
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: TGJB on October 29, 2023, 06:44:45 PM
I was going for something that implied gullibility.

From what I remember, AFTER that horse won, we looked up his sheet, and decided he could have been bet with no inside info. I think Friedman did hit the tri, either using that horse in a box or keying a different one. Not keying him.

If you haven’t already, read Tip On A Dead Crab. You’ll see why.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Boscar Obarra on October 29, 2023, 10:27:13 PM
Very few people cashed on Lebon.  57-1 , cmon. Do the math .

  I recall one well know board watcher claiming he had the triple based on the  prior race betting action (which was significant)  and suspicion that there was something going on .  

  Think it was a surface switch too.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Roman on October 30, 2023, 09:08:31 AM
So there was a ringer, they hit the race using there \"sheets\", and then say they hit the race because of there info, even though it was not even the same horse and his figure they were relying on to bet the race?
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Socalman3 on October 30, 2023, 09:13:24 AM
Roman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So there was a ringer, they hit the race using
> there \"sheets\", and then say they hit the race
> because of there info, even though it was not even
> the same horse and his figure they were relying on
> to bet the race?


It was the same horse.  The horse that was the ringer ran in both the first and second races in NY under the wrong name.  

Not making any commentary on what actually happened. Just pointing out that that the switch for the ringer did not happen only in the race in question
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Roman on October 30, 2023, 09:16:19 AM
Racetrack stories, got to love them.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Roman on October 30, 2023, 09:17:26 AM
And how does that story come to Chicago 30 years ago. That is some game of telephone!
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Marlin on October 30, 2023, 10:59:34 AM
Remember when they used to Turn OFF all pay phones @ the racetrack once the card started.  Yes, young racing fans, prior to cell phones & a think called the internet.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Socalman3 on October 30, 2023, 11:27:25 AM
Marlin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Remember when they used to Turn OFF all pay phones
> @ the racetrack once the card started.  Yes, young
> racing fans, prior to cell phones & a think called
> the internet.


I remember the pay phones being in proper phone booths and the booths were padlocked shut during racing hours.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: prist on October 30, 2023, 02:32:43 PM
Sports Illustrated: Which Horse is Which?

https://www.thorograph.com/phorum/file.php?1,file=250
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: JohnTChance on October 30, 2023, 02:50:46 PM
If ThoroGraph\'s competitor is wrong so often, why do people buy it? A question you\'ve answered many times over the last 40 years I\'ve been using you.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Roman on October 30, 2023, 03:32:48 PM
Read this one,
https://vault.si.com/vault/1978/05/01/rags-says-his-system-figures-to-bring-riches-whats-a-nice-harvard-boy-doing-in-a-cramped-greenwich-village-office-with-all-that-info-on-the-horses
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: trackjohn on October 30, 2023, 03:46:01 PM
Actually 30 minutes prior to the 1st race (at least at Aqu and Belmont
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: jerry on October 31, 2023, 11:30:22 AM
Talking about a story that’s almost 50 years old.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Boscar Obarra on October 31, 2023, 09:04:49 PM
Seems like yesterday.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: johnnym on November 01, 2023, 09:07:14 AM
https://twitter.com/Skipaway42/status/1719700326511411347


Hope this helps the blood pressure
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Roman on November 01, 2023, 09:28:23 AM
This is the best thread ever, literally no one is biting there tongues! lol
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: Roman on November 01, 2023, 09:34:16 AM
I think the fig is right, everyone else has the race that fast on there figures. Where the Rags loose me is at Zandon, explain that to me so I can understand the madness to the methodology.
Title: Re: Biting my tongue…
Post by: prist on November 08, 2023, 07:18:09 AM
YUUGIRI: I guess you need an \"Open Mind.\"