https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/bettor-suing-baffert-leaving-racing-the-game/
a lot of folks echo his sentiment.
but don\'t hold your breath expecting bobby b to come clean.
Well, nobody would be surprised that I agree with Beychock. Baffert is a first class PoS.
At the Del Mar barn area, guess who parks his big ass white Bentley SUV with the license plate PHAROAH directly under a large red sign above a fire hydrant that says -- NO PARKING HERE!
Every single Del Mar day... .
that tells a lot about a man, don\'t care who you are
Putting aside the Medina Spirit/Baffert thing, if you liked Mandaloun in the Derby how is it that you need to file suit to win money? So you tossed Baffert?
Good Luck,
Joe B
Parking spots are windows to the soul. That\'s why people who don\'t drive are inscrutable.
This is:
A. A koan.
B. Something from Laugh-In.
C. Yogi Berra.
D. Does Jerry Brown drive?
E. All of the above.
hellersorr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is:
>
> A. A koan.
> B. Something from Laugh-In.
> C. Yogi Berra.
> D. Does Jerry Brown drive?
> E. All of the above.
Great post.
Made me think. Also, made me look up what \"a koan\" is. \"A\" for sure. Too deep for either \"B\" or \"C\" and I don\'t personally know Jerry but my guess to \"D\" is either NO or not very much negating the necessity to park much or at all. Plus, my guess is when he does need to park (if ever) he doesn\'t park in front of a red curb or space that is limited to folks who have a disability.
I don\'t begrudge anyone for choosing what to do with their own money so good on Michael Beychok for choosing to leave wagering on horse racing.
In respect to the lawsuit, eff Michael Beychok! It\'s very presumptuous for him that he is smarter than everyone else and would have had the winner if not for Bob Baffert and Medina Spirit with 21 picograms of Betamethasone in a post race sample. Medina Spirit did not move up all that much in the Kentucky Derby and was on the lead while being stalked by the great Soup and Sandwich. Mandaloun was a bigger improvement and harder to get to on figs than Medina. Medina Spirit came back to win a GI in the Awesome Again and run second in the BC Classic while literally under a microscope.
I hear more screaming about Baffert while other trainers move up horses on a daily basis at a track near you. Clean up the sport, YES. Sue because you lost, come on man.
Not much needs to be added to this other than if you liked Mandaloun in the Derby at 26-1 and you didn\'t catch the exacta perhaps it\'s not a bad idea to pursue wagering on other things.
Good Luck,
Joe B
Mr. Beychok is/was a) a non-practicing attorney and b) the manager of syndicates that bet on big days. I believe.
One view could be that the ethical thing to do for your client/investores in the pick 6 syndicate is to sue.
Doesn\'t it stand to reason that Baffert\'s rules violations affected the outcome of the bet? Medina Spirit should not have been in the race.
In any case, I\'ll follow this story with interest.
What did Del Mar officials say when you told them where Baffert parks?
Investors often sue for damages when a public company is in violation of one thing or another.
Ambulance chasing law firms pursue hundreds of these cases a year. Thing is, there are laws on the books to support that , but do we have the same protection in the parimutual pool?
Rich Curtis Wrote:
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> What did Del Mar officials say when you told them
> where Baffert parks?
Funny. They have known for years and just look away. Like everyone else... .
Objection. Non-responsive.
For the record. Caught the exacta nicely in the Derby. Not an attorney never have been. Not a manager of any pick 6 syndicate or any gambling group. A winning player for past 12 years even taking out the million won at NHC. Oh and finally, eff Arcadia123 whoever the eff you are. Have a nice day and good luck with horse racing guys and gals.
Michael
Michael— I disagree with you about the Baffert thing, but agree with you about the state of the game/industry. The problem is your leaving isn't getting enough attention.
Getting Carville to leave horse racing might help. It would be a nice twist. Carville brought Beychok in. Beychok takes Carville out. Political consultants thought they had seen it all--then decide horse racing is more than they can stomach.
MB, my apologies about the mis-information.
hellersorr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is:
>
> A. A koan.
> B. Something from Laugh-In.
> C. Yogi Berra.
> D. Does Jerry Brown drive?
> E. All of the above.
I\'ll go with A.
KOAN looks well placed in the 9th at Parx today. :-)
Congrats.
The National Thoroughbred Racing Association (NTRA) selected five handicappers for induction to the NTRA National Horseplayers Championship (NHC)\'s Hall of Fame: Stanley Bavlish, Michael Beychok, David Gutfreund, Paul Matties, Jr., and the late J. Randy Gallo.
hooper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The National Thoroughbred Racing Association
> (NTRA) selected five handicappers for induction to
> the NTRA National Horseplayers Championship
> (NHC)\'s Hall of Fame: Stanley Bavlish, Michael
> Beychok, David Gutfreund, Paul Matties, Jr., and
> the late J. Randy Gallo.
Yeah, what a joke. I don\'t see my name anywhere on that list. :-)
Along those lines, a handicapping Hall Of Fame that includes neither Clocker Bob nor Chuckles The Clown is a Hall Of Fame unworthy of the name.
Previous inductees. https://www.ntra.com/nhc/nhc-hall-of-fame/
prist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hellersorr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is:
> >
> > A. A koan.
> > B. Something from Laugh-In.
> > C. Yogi Berra.
> > D. Does Jerry Brown drive?
> > E. All of the above.
>
> I\'ll go with A.
>
> KOAN looks well placed in the 9th at Parx today.
> :-)
Dude, that Zen shit don\'t work. KOAN was off the board. :-)
prist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> prist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hellersorr Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This is:
> > >
> > > A. A koan.
> > > B. Something from Laugh-In.
> > > C. Yogi Berra.
> > > D. Does Jerry Brown drive?
> > > E. All of the above.
> >
> > I\'ll go with A.
> >
> > KOAN looks well placed in the 9th at Parx
> today.
> > :-)
>
> Dude, that Zen @#$%& don\'t work. KOAN was off the
> board. :-)
\"Hunch play\" stories always seem to work better in retrospect. :o)
arcadia123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don\'t begrudge anyone for choosing what to do
> with their own money so good on Michael Beychok
> for choosing to leave wagering on horse racing.
>
> In respect to the lawsuit, eff Michael Beychok!
> It\'s very presumptuous for him that he is smarter
> than everyone else and would have had the winner
> if not for Bob Baffert and Medina Spirit with 21
> picograms of Betamethasone in a post race sample.
> Medina Spirit did not move up all that much in the
> Kentucky Derby and was on the lead while being
> stalked by the great Soup and Sandwich. Mandaloun
> was a bigger improvement and harder to get to on
> figs than Medina. Medina Spirit came back to win
> a GI in the Awesome Again and run second in the BC
> Classic while literally under a microscope.
>
> I hear more screaming about Baffert while other
> trainers move up horses on a daily basis at a
> track near you. Clean up the sport, YES. Sue
> because you lost, come on man.
I wonder if Kinchen will be looking for a lawyer after his DQ.
prist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I wonder if Kinchen will be looking for a lawyer
> after his DQ.
Since he already tweeted that he accepts the ruling, I\'m thinking no.
jma11473 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since he already tweeted that he accepts the
> ruling, I\'m thinking no.
Thanks. I\'m not on Twitter.
I thought he might have a case if he told them he was just there to look at the statue.
There seems to be more to this story. Anyone have the juicy details?
Have you read this?
https://pastthewire.com/did-jonathan-kinchen-cheat-at-the-nhc-contest-in-las-vegas/
Roman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you read this?
Yuuup.
I can kind of relate if it was a crime of passion. I was just always upfront with my plans.
One year, I think it was Thanksgiving day, Hawthorne was running. Early post time.
I remember all the family was at the house as I walked in with Racing Form in hand.
I\'m like, \"I know you\'re all here, but I have to go to the track today. Harvey Vanier has HAMMOCKER all cranked-up and I can\'t miss this. He\'s a sure thing.\"
Long story short ... HAMMOCKER lost. No such thing as a sure thing, Turkey. :-)
I don't know about getting DQ'd, but that outfit should get him banned.
Always bet Vanier\'s horses, him and Jere Smith Sr runners always ran and looked the part. Thanksgiving at Hawthorne was a never miss every year for me. Missed the last couple, Hopefully that casino cash boosts purses and the product improves. How they save Arlington also, especially in light of Mr.D,
I know racing is kinda screwed up right now but hopefully with the passionate players still holding out hope, not only will good racing and horses return, they will thrive.
Sunshine is the best disinfectant!
Looks like he stitched a bunch of old saddle cloths. Watch him on fox when NYRA tracks are running, seems bright enough, no pun intended. Sucks to be the first one Dq\'d from the contest ever, especially being high profile, and in turn making you an ambassador of the sport. Just a bad look, no pun intended.
This seems an appropriate time to tell a good story.
Many on his bandwagon and supporting him insist that he didn\'t \"cheat.\" That he just is a rule breaker for his role in the redux of \"Leaving Las Vegas.\"
Well, let me tell a story about the man that the NTRA should be aware of as they continue to work through this \"ambassador\'s situation.\"
A few years back, and Hawthorne Race Course can confirm some of this, he participated on the Saturday card of their Thanksgiving weekend Live Money tournament. It is an event that involves qualifying for the NHC. The Haw contest is unique b/c Hawthorne has no \"cost\" to the customer as the $400 entry fee serves as your entire bankroll. After you play 100 bucks you could just walk away win or lose if you wanted and you are only out the 100 bucks and keep your 300. You have to play the entire 400 to be eligible to win the contest. There is no prize money beyond your winnings although the prizes do include NHC spots for those that are at the top of the list at the end of the day. It is a great tournament with any bet at any track pretty much all day. I love the folks at Haw and in no way does this reflect on them at all.
Anyway, he brought a mini-entourage of folks in with him including his gf along with some other friends. His approach to the tourney was to play the pick 5 at CD by singling a 2 to 5 shot on all of his tickets is what I gathered from his discussions I heard. And he went to the machine with 6 to 8 player cards (plays can be made at a self serve terminal with the card that has your $400 balance to start) and he put in all of his pick 5 tickets singling the strong favorite using all 6 to 8 cards he had. Each player by rule is only allowed 2 $400 entries. But he played several and when the 2 to 5 shot went down early in the sequence (it was the middle or late pick 5 as I recall, might have been Tiz the Law?), the entourage all left. It was meaningless at the time b/c the dude lost and he was gone.
But now when people want to declare he doesn\'t \"cheat,\" well let\'s just say we don\'t all agree on that. I hope the NTRA and his bosses on TV can see through all of this and rid themselves of a guy that wasn\'t truthful about making his plays from his room at Bally\'s.
My guess though is that in classic horse racing form, he will receive a 1 tournament suspension with a stay on that suspension if he agrees to be a good boy from now on.
If you are not playing by the rules, you are cheating. Saying you cheated and saying so what when you are a NTRA mentor for new players, and have a platform as a player representative to the industry is disappointing by a furlong. Power tends to corrupt!
Yeah lets make Kinchen the big criminal here. Lets CLEAN UP HANDICAPPING
TOURNAMENTS!!, while the Rules of Racing and the enforcement of such are a total
joke. OK.
My new pet peeve is \"We are family racing\" at NYRA, where one day in the near
future at NYRA you might have a six horse field with mounts ridden by Dylan Davis,
the two Davis sisters, Dylan\'s brother-in-law Trevor McCarthy and the Brothers
Ortiz. Even the fact that the two Ortiz brothers ride against each other in so
many races gives some cause for discomfort.
So Kinchen flew the coop. He admitted his wrongdoing. Three cheers for
handicapping tournaments. Over the last two years, businesses have adapted to
the pandemic by operating remotely (Zoom, Microsoft Teams, etc) so not
surprising that Racing, usually well behind any curve, holds an event where
everyone is required to be on site. But hey rules is rules and it is good to
see them enforced somewhere.
Don\'t think he did anything remotely close to criminal. For a person being on the rules committee for a handicapping contest, and advocating for rules against collusion amongst them being one of them, kind of lost all credibility.
As to being on site, how do you guard against collusion virtually ?
And it was an in person contest. He apologized , absolutely right thing to do, as for punishment and if one should be given , is above my pay grade. If it wasn\'t him, anyone else would have probably skated. So a lot wrong here, and this episode exposed it. Both the player and the tournament should learn from this and move forward.
As I side note, just powered up an old device I haven\'t used for awhile, and when I turned it on , the web page was a post by you richee about how Cox had cofeve good effort. Coincidence?
https://www.thorograph.com/phorum/read.php?1,116722,116775#msg-116775
Kinchen suspended two years by NTRA from NTRA and NHC events.
Meanwhile NYRA celebrated him hours later. I don\'t know if it was miff or Frank that came up with Clueless Clowns but Clown is a common emoji on twitter these days. You guys were way ahead of the curve. And NYRA and this guy are clueless clowns.
richiebee while you make some good points about remote situations, this guy was dishonest. More than that, the winner took home 725k from the tournament. Meanwhile the Preakness winner got 600k.
I\'ll at least applaud NTRA for a quick decision. But NYRA...Clown show. Of course anyone that employs Serling and treats him like gold while he treats people like garbage deserves to be called Clowns.
Much like SA on track product, they made their bed. . . .
My friend, I only comment on one of your \"truths\":
Serling is without a doubt the biggest ass and terrible handicapper on TV (outside of TVG full staff). And he thinks he is something special. I\'ll share a few stories next time I see you.
First time I met him I just said \"hello\" and referenced a mutual friend, who he quickly pointed out that his name I mispronounced. I didn\'t. Total dick.
NYRA calls these two clowns \"ambassadors\". . . .
https://www.usbets.com/ntra-suspends-jonathon-kinchen-nhc-dq/
He is still an ambassador to the sport, but is he still a "mentor" to new players to the NHC?
Fairmount1, you and I have been on the same page lately, I chuckle at the times you post and I find myself posting the same.
Agree 100%...he is a total POS ..Ask Frank D what I told him about this guy and what one of his fellow TV personalities did to him...
John
You should see me after 12 Bud Lights in the backyard and race number 6 is coming up in 17 minutes as the bell rings . . . . . Uncle Bill can confirm there are few dull moments the rest of the card. . .
Believe me...he is telling the truth!
John