https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/nyra-amends-charges-against-baffert-to-include-bute-overages/#.YdOA7fGyY0o.twitter
I have had a case before Peter Sherwood who is the presiding officer on this case. Sherwood is an interesting guy. Based on the experience of a single case, he asks a ton of contextual questions trying to understand the bigger picture and that is way more important to him than nuts and bolts small details. He tends to throw out both sides\' arguments and come up with his own solution. It is very important for litigants to embrace his approach and avoid small close-minded types of arguments. Not sure if the administrative context requires an alteration of his common law judicial approach.
I wish I could say something funny about this. Bute overages? Bute with legs of its own? This ain\'t lidocaine, baby.
So Cal- he was a good Judge and former Corporation counsel of NYC. But he will not employ as an approach what you suggest for various reasons. First, this is a really high profile case that has the potential to land him- as it does many retired judges- a boat load of future mediation work. Second, and perhaps more importantly, there is likely to be an appeal- whether it is to District Judge Carol Amon ( also a really good judge) or somewhere else, he knows he has to be a judge here, folllow the facts and law and not be merely a baby splitter.
Curious what the lawyers think— my sense is NYRA realizes it jumped the gun, and is now throwing s—t against the wall (An old Bute overage? Seriously?) in an attempt to cover their butts for not giving him due process.
Mislabeled drugs? 25 of them?
Where else have I heard about mislabeled drugs??? Oh yes, our good friends Fishman and Jorge taught us all about this.
Gamine was sent off to rehab today. Hope she lives longer than Lord Nelson, Arrogate, etc. She\'s made it further than Medina Spirit so that\'s a victory in the barn\'s eyes I\'m sure.
I am curious about another legal issue relating to Baffert. I recently read an article speculating that Baffert\'s legal team would wait until shortly before the Derby to challenge Churchill\'s disqualification of Baffert-trained horses from participating in the Derby or earning points in Derby preps. The idea was that they would find a judge to give them a TRO and then run out the clock until after the Derby had been run.
I had some legal training long ago and wonder if laches wouldn\'t stand in the way of getting a TRO.
That said, I\'m not sure that there is a better strategy available to them. As the article sugested, Churchill Downs is arguably not subject to the due process requirements that apply to NYRA.
Unclean Hands.
As Arthur points out in the article the labeling of the drugs is the vet's responsibility, and what the drugs were matters. I'm going to assume (perhaps incorrectly) that if there was a true performance enhancer in there we would have heard about it.
Again— I'm not saying Baffert is Snow White. But what we're talking about here is kids stuff. The Clenbuterol positives for multiple trainers in Florida who run horses in lots of races we bet is a much bigger deal. Does anybody seriously think they are the only ones? Has anyone been looking at the sheets for horses trained by a certain guy at Parx recently? Has anyone noticed how certain trainers in NY and SoCal are running hot and cold?
Off the top of my head, the judge should say to Baffert\'s lawyer where were you when your horses weren\'t accruing points? Wasnt that the urgent emergency? If the issue was getting Newgrange into the Derby, you already knew of the harm as of January 1 when Newgrange was denied points.
Of course, Kentucky is the world of bizarro when it comes to law (see TGJB\'s Rachel Alexandra case which was a grave miscarriage of justice), so who knows how the court would rule. it is possible that Baffert will have more sway than Churchill Downs does. Also, it will be interesting to see how the competing interests of various owners will be handled (Baffert owners vs Non-Baffert owners).
I think the interesting issue will be what if we transfers the care of the relevant horses to other trainers just before the last round of Derby Preps?
BitPlayer Wrote:
> I had some legal training long ago and wonder if
> laches wouldn\'t stand in the way of getting a
> TRO.
Hey, I just learned a new word. Thanks!
Bit- it is sort of laches! As a general rules the party asserting the doctrine of laches-here Churchill Downs- would have to claim it was prejudiced or changed its position by Baffert sitting on his rights. That is not the case here where CD has taken its position. I can't speak for Kentucky courts specifically but most judges do not look fondly on a party seeking a TRO at the last minute when the relief could have been sought earlier on a non emergency basis.R
I know you think Rick was really on top of his game. But as you point out, the information that has been released was controlled by him.
If you go back and read every single detail of all the Baffert excuses, incidents, mishaps, groom\'s pee, etc, Rick has been covering up for Baffert for years. Even if there was some serious blood doping agents, you would never know b/c Rick was in Bob\'s corner of the ring the whole time no matter what he said. His actions showed he had his back no matter how he had to later Justify it.
As it is, why are we just learning of this now? Transparency one of the game\'s biggest problems. And the so-called leaders continue to show themselves covering up for people they shouldn\'t be covering up for year after year.
Snow White. That\'s rich.
I\'ve always found it ironic a guy who nearly died but survived a heart attack has numerous horses that he cares for fall over dead from heart attacks including a Derby winner. No one else has a history of heart attacks in their trainees the way the greatest trainer ever has. . . hmmm, I wonder why? It isn\'t because of Mickey Mouse drugs and Snow White character.
Baffert tried hard to get Arthur fired. And Arthur asked me for sheets for trainers getting jump ups, he means business.
I would point out they've been giving Baffert a colonoscopy since the Derby and his horses have run okay.
If he knows they can\'t test for something, he is firing away with guns a blazing while he can. As Fishman taught us, there are things in the US including TJC can\'t test for apparently. If they do pop a positive, it is dex or beta we\'ve also learned.
They\'ve ran better than ok. I know win percentages aren\'t as big as performance figs to you, but his record right now is en fuego.
I cannot comment on the legal issues like Rezlegal but I can say I am looking forward to the day both Baffert and Covid go away. Forever.
BitPlayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had some legal training long ago and wonder if
> laches wouldn\'t stand in the way of getting a
> TRO.
Was it at a Holiday Inn Express??
Then this
https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2022-01-04/license-temporarily-suspended-of-chrb-equine-medical-director-jeff-blea
I understand many on this board want a central governing agency.
But what faith would you have in it when they cannot even get this crap figured out.
Thanks.
Well, just another example of horse racing as a sport looking more and more like professional Roller Derby than the Sport of Kings.
So, Dr Blea (one of Baffert\'s vets) gets accused of 15 cases of violations that lead to the temporary suspension of his Vet license and yet he is allowed to continue in the role of Equine Medical Director while getting the complete endorsement of Scott Chaney who is Executive Director of the CHRB.
I don\'t know Chaney\'s relationship with Baffert but he has been very kind in his decisions regarding Bayern and Game On Dude and others including some comments after Medina Spirit\'s sudden death (under Baffert\'s care).
Probably time to end my 30+ years owning thoroughbreds. There are plusses and minuses in having a central authority running the sport (I am not for bigger government) but the current system is not working at all. Professional Roller Derby died in the \'70\'s. Unfortunately, we are on a fast track to extinction too.
I'm sure we all new this was coming
https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Report_Baffert_might_sue_Churchill_Downs_Inc_over_Derby_ban_123
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/sports/horse-racing/churchill-downs-bob-baffert.html
My take is this.
Churchill thinks (knows?) he has an unfair advantage over almost all the other trainers and it isn\'t \"good horses\" and CDI is trying to protect the marquee American race that they own.
True, they can\'t catch him red handed apparently if that\'s what they believe. And true he only has Mickey Mouse positives showing up. But they know he made a mockery out of their day in May. And then the horse falls over dead to boot. There are many things I dislike CDI for especially closing Arlington. But I applaud them for standing up to him. Any decent business mind would think he needs to go and it would improve the game/sport/industry/business of horse racing.
So the guy whose horse ran second. He\'s good to go?
Good Luck,
Joe B
That\'s a bad take, the industry has to start somewhere. Anywhere! No, it won\'t be a fair and even playing field on day one. It will take ages; if ever to clean it up, but why not start with Baffert. CDI is say, they don\'t need him. It\'s time the rest of the racing world says the same. The game went on without Richard Dutrow. It will go on without Navarro, Servis, and Baffert.
And if someone finds the kind of evidence of the kind of performance enhancers they found with Navarro etc. they should not only toss Baffert but indict him. But that is NOT the case. We are talking about positives for drugs that have a negligible effect on outcomes. Ones where the risk/reward for abusing intentionally would be nuts.
Remember a few years ago when Joe Drape set out to make Assmussen look like a criminal? Remember how that turned out?
AGAIN— I've been fighting against PEDs longer and harder than anyone else in the industry. And I'm not tight with Baffert, we text a few times a year. But this stuff is BS. And I told NYRA that last summer. They got way ahead of their skis.
Meanwhile, the guys who got the Clenbuterol positives in Fla are still sending out starters at GP. We're talking about a broncho-dilator with steroidal effects. Not to worry.
According to news reports including the Washington Post, Baffert has had at least 74 thoroughbreds die while under his care. The highest death rate in the United States out of hundreds of trainers. It is hard for me to understand how young and healthy equine athletes just drop dead at that rate.
And if true (or even not) that should absolutely be investigated. An autopsy should be done on every single one.
They didn\'t \'catch\' Navarro and Servis through testing for SGF 1000, because it couldn\'t be detected. They \'caught\' them because they were stupid enough to brag about it or talk about it in the open.
So maybe Baffert is smart enough NOT to talk about it?
I have no idea and no knowledge, but it was clear that the first two were cheating to everyone who gave it serious thought. And there are other cheaters operating at the same level of the business. Maybe Baffert. Maybe other \'champions\' of the turf.
Like Lance Armstrong, the day will come when they piss off one of their enablers....a vet, an illicit drug manufacturer or distributor, an employee in their barn. That\'ll be the day...not before.
They didn't talk about it in the open. They talked about it on wiretaps, that were put in place because the Jockey Club hired detectives to come up with enough probable cause for the Feds to convince a judge.
I'm agnostic re Baffert and PEDs. Maybe he and his vet(s?) are really clever. But do you seriously think they're not crawling up his butt?
Short story— literally the last meeting I had before lockdown was with McKinsie and Jim Gagliano in the JC offices here in Manhattan, about the tool we ended up creating for racing offices to decide whom to watch. Towards the end of the meeting Jim and I got into one of many discussions we've had about who is moving horses up (which discussions continue to this day). I said "what you guys need to do is get some wiretaps".
He didn't say a word. And about a week later it was all over the news about Navarro etc., they had already been working on it- and spending money on it— for a long time.
Actually, let me amend this, lest I come across as a naive idiot. Baffert got some extraordinary jumps with horses shipping to NY. I am beyond suspicious of those.
I think the lance Armstrong analogy is perfect
I honor your involvement and effort regarding this problem. I sincerely do, but two things:
First, when I said they discussed it in the open, that includes telephone calls, texts, \'Juice Man\' shoes, etc. Lance Armstrong never did anything that stupid.
Second, money makes the world go round. A lot of people are in on all these crappy schemes and as long as they all profit from them there\'s no chance that they will squeal on a crook. Mislabeled drug vials are probably mislabeled for good reason....but I\'m betting that sometime in the future some small time player in these schemes will feel that he\'s been mistreated...and that\'s when the next one will unravel. That sort of happened to Kirk Ziadie, no?
The next one who I hope falls is the guy who was born in the shadow of the Twin Spires....who apparently got his \'god\' given training talent from being born in this dark spot.
If you have an hour to waste
https://pastthewire.com/the-bob-baffert-kentucky-derby-ban-legit-or-not/
"Does he accept responsibility for his actions?" Greenberg said. "No. Instead, he trashes everyone he can think of. He trashes regulators, he trashes the media, he attacks everyone and everything, and he says he has no idea how this could happen. ... The damage that was done to Thoroughbred racing on those two days was incalculable."
I believe this is the crux of the issue NYRA has with Baffert. Essentially unbridled arrogance. Don\'t mess with the Kentucky Oaks. Don\'t mess with the Kentucky Derby. Baffert\'s defense is that he didn\'t really do anything wrong. His defense continually and unsuccessfully objected to Baffert\'s comments during his press conferences being shown at the hearing. Embarrassing and again arrogant to say the least.
Which quality is most undesirable?
Cheating
Stealing
Killing
Arrogance
Irresponsibilty
Greed
Parking In No Parking Zones
Like other corrupt characters there is no term which fully describes how useless this idividual is in our society. Deportation?
What a day for a daydream cold and drizzling.
Tavasco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which quality is most undesirable?
> Cheating
> Stealing
> Killing
> Arrogance
> Irresponsibilty
> Greed
> Parking In No Parking Zones
> Like other corrupt characters there is no term
> which fully describes how useless this idividual
> is in our society. Deportation?
>
> What a day for a daydream cold and drizzling.
In my opinion, arrogance leads to the other six on your list. Owners are generally innocent when it comes to positives and unsound horses forced to compete. We really don\'t know. The vet bills are impossible to decipher. The trainer never tells you when a horse is \"off\" and will be running. However, his deep pocket owners know what everyone knows. He just doesn\'t give a shit. Shame on them too.