Going to be a very awkward week. For him and the Sport. Right now he is fighting for everything he has got. Because this wasn\'t just a horse racing story today. It was on every cable news channel around. And some at the top of the leading hour.
This is a real story. Not Bradley Cooper and De Niro in Limitless.
Hopefully he gets due process
Hopefully there\'s a deeper dive into his chemical program!
Not certain how one says what follows without making reference to one\'s experience with it all, but that is the predicament.
Since 2015 Baffert has been on fire. Having seen horses like Pharaoh and Justify outrun their paths and big figures it was clear something remarkable was going on with Bob Baffert, even while cognizant that to a lesser extent, it always had been. Viewed in the best case scenario, one could surmise it had come all together for Baffert and that his skill in the craft had reached its zenith. Or one could look at it from the other side of the coin and speculate he had found an illegal tonic. Whether the latter could be proven or not was hardly even relevant. What mattered was losing to Baffert Triple Crown Winners that outran expectations. 2015, 2018, 2020, 2021...The Lesson?...Don\'t let Baffert beat you.
So...is he cheating? We all have our own opinions upon that. If he is, one has to hope they catch him. Until then, all one can do is not let him beat you.
For me the frustrating thing is the amount of the substance and the fact that it’s not a banned substance, your horse just can’t have it in their system on race day. So if MS had 21 “one trillionths†according to ESPN, I mean the end result likely will be the same as Justify or last year at Oaklawn. But it’s obvious something is going on and has been for awhile.
But if it has no effect on performance at the detected levels, it’s a none issue for me. That said there’s obviously something nefarious going on and being Preakness week, this story won’t be going away.
isnt it disturbing that in the interview he barely acted like he knew what it was but im reading its the same gamine tested for...
Well depending how you are phrasing that what if the 2nd Test comes back clean? Now who do you believe?
Two out of the last 3 Derbies have been decided by Stewards. This means Lawyers. Post the \"Race is Official Finger Pointing\". At least today the Lawyers are taking over Pre Race.....
Board:
It should bother you that a trainer who saddles multiple graded stakes winners each year for the last two decades maintains a barn that has won the “Most Contaminated†Eclipse Award the last few years..
The fact that the overages always seem so minuscule, and seem to be getting smaller, says to me that Team Baffert is getting ever closer to optimizing withdrawal times under new regulations.
If it ever comes to punishment being meted out, it MUST be considered that many of the overages were in historically important races with multimillion dollar pools.
There is no reason the split sample results should not be available this week. I know they ordinarily take longer, but this is not an ordinary case. Money should be no object, and Baffert should be in a rush to be cleared.
The KHRC should also announce whether there were other betamethasone positives over Derby weekend. If there was a problem with test barn personnel or the testing, then it should not be isolated to one horse. If there was a problem with personnel in Baffert\'s barn, then one of his other horses should also have an issue.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Quote from Craig Robertson, Baffert\'s attorney, in Wall Street Journal:
\"They provide that list [list of labs for split-sample testing], we choose a laboratory from that list. The sample gets sent to that laboratory and they perform the testing. And then the results come back. There\'s no way that can possibly happen before Saturday.\"
Are you kidding me? KHRC must have a list at the ready. Baffert presumably already chose a lab from that list for the Gamine positive. Fed Ex delivers overnight, and there are faster courier services. Someone calls the lab and tells them to expect this and rush it. They do the testing (allow a day). And they e-mail back the results, hard copy to follow.
If this doesn\'t happen before Friday, it\'s because someone either does not want it to happen fast or someone can\'t be bothered.
If a Wall Street firm wanted this done in a hurry, they would have results by tomorrow.
I\'m thinking, we can have a futures pool (parimutuel of course) on whether the winner of the derby stays up, or gets to keep to winners purse.
Be great for hedging.
Expect all charges to be dropped. Order to be restored. This is why you dont jump to conclusions.
As far as the Preakness goes he is coming to town with 2 LIVE horses. 4 of his 7 Derby Winners has been accomplished going wire-to-wire. War Emblem, Justify, Authenticity and Medina Spirit. Bodemeister almost gave him 8!! Saving ground and free from traffic trouble
I fully expect all 9 or 10 other Trainers, Jocks and Connections to take back, dont get caught in a speed dual, save some horse and try and get a piece. Like they have in his Derby Wins. And then when he wins people scream \"he cheats\".....sheeesh!!
And here I thought I was gonna cash my prop bet.
Prat first two time Derby winner via DQ.
Oh well always another test next year.
My two cents this shit was blown way way out of proportion
If the split sample confirms the results of the first, can you explain to the Board why, exactly, the charges will be dropped? Is there an exception in the regs that if the steroid enters the horses system through his behind ( assuming arguendo that was the sole source of entry) rather than his ankle it’s ok?
so a person who has bac of double or .12 because they ate a rum cake but it didnt effect the outcome of their driving should just get off? I mean miniscule or not this was double the limit...innocent or not this was double the limit..and not the first time...if the split comes back he has to be dq...if not what is the point?
rezlegal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the split sample confirms the results of the
> first, can you explain to the Board why, exactly,
> the charges will be dropped? Is there an exception
> in the regs that if the steroid enters the horses
> system through his behind ( assuming arguendo that
> was the sole source of entry) rather than his
> ankle it’s ok?
100% agree with you counselor.
I haven\'t read any speculation as to why Baffert jumped the gun and admitted the positive before the split sample was tested. Not normal procedure. He explains \"transparency\" and other nonsense but there must be a well thought out strategy for doing so by his lawyer (who we are all becoming much too familiar with over the years).
It’s been a long time since I’ve posted. But now we’re getting into one of my areas of expertise. Lying.
I read what Baffert said - a groom took cough syrup and pissed on hay that the horse ate? This is a lie, and not even a good one. Today we’re on to ointments. He used an ointment on the horse and that’s how it happened. What happened to the pissing groom? Who is he? Was he fired? The leading trainer in the world has grooms pissing on hay.
He’s got to go. Enough is enough. Where there’s fire there’s fire.
Asking my non-equine vet about it he said that it seemed that you would have to be using a ridiculous amount of cream to get that level to show up in the test.
It would be passing through skin, tissue, organs etc.
I am trying to understand how he did not know before yesterday that Otomax contained a steroid derivative.
The vet didn\'t mention it ever - and he thought not to ask? Especially, with all the positive tests last year, and his heartfelt promise to so better - seriously?
Then at that point the Stewards will faced with a tough call.
Baffert can take the High Road and declare he would NEVER ignore the health and well being of one of his animals. He has now checked that box with the Animal Lovers.
He can then declare that his horse was a $1,000 Rag\'s to Riches Story that isnt what the Bluebloods prefer. Like Maximum Security. And he has now checked that box.
He can declare the Derby isnt Fixed because I\'ve won at least 6 of them. But when the Winner is being declared by Stewards in a box and not the horse who crossed the finish line first....you have to wonder. And he has now checked that box.
Accept the DQ and win the Preakness and Belmont and leave everything with an Asterik. His reputation is in tact. Racing can always say they were the Ethical Good Cop and see how that goes over....
Do a Google search of Otomax. While it comes in various packaging I am sure, in all of the pictures I have seen Betamethasone Sulfate is clearly under the brand name and also on the ingredients list. I am skeptical this was the cause, but if it was whoever was administering it the horse probably should not be taking care of racehorses. And if it wasn\'t they definitely should not be taking care of race horses as it is something worse. Whether it was an oversight, poor judgment or something much worse, Baffert is ultimately responsible one was or another if the overage is confirmed. If so, Medina Spirit should (and likely will) be disqualified.
Scott, we missed your rants.
HP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s been a long time since I’ve posted. But
> now we’re getting into one of my areas of
> expertise. Lying.
>
> I read what Baffert said - a groom took cough
> syrup and pissed on hay that the horse ate? This
> is a lie, and not even a good one. Today we’re
> on to ointments. He used an ointment on the horse
> and that’s how it happened. What happened to the
> pissing groom? Who is he? Was he fired? The
> leading trainer in the world has grooms pissing on
> hay.
>
> He’s got to go. Enough is enough. Where
> there’s fire there’s fire.
The groom pissing upon the hay is classic!
Ol Bobby is not doing himself much of a favor is he? Poor Bobby, the innocent white dove.
Thanks!
He’s a liar. The ointment story proves it. He knew the pissing groom thing wasn’t enough so like all liars he moved on and made up more. I believe everything JB says about this episode but I also believe what’s being detected is covering up something else. Every year this guy pulls the rabbit out of a hat? No way. He’s racing’s Lance Armstrong.
He said “I never gave the horse that stuff.†There’s a period at the end of that sentence. If it’s true. If it isn’t, we’re up to pissing grooms and ointment. Others are doing a good job here on the ointment story, which is RIDICULOUS. I’m sticking with the groom.
How come no one in what Hunter Thompson called “the sporting press†in his famous Scanlan’s piece on the Derby is following up on this pissing groom? I’d like Baffert to produce him so he can verify the story. If he’s real he must have a name? Baffert made it sound like a routine thing. He’s pissing on hay after taking cough syrup. Sure! What kind? I’m a Robitussin man but I’d like to know what a top groom uses. Please give me five minutes to ask Baffert questions. He could probably sell these chumps the Brooklyn Bridge. But now that we’re into ointment the groom story probably dies. It shouldn’t.
It’s rare I can be so positive, but I know lying! Detective HP! Signing off. Be well my friends! And please let’s hope someone in charge has a lick of common sense to see BB for what he is.
Spendthrift has afforded Bob some free stalls
https://www.drf.com/news/spendthrift-moving-some-its-horses-bafferts-barn
Medina better not run up the track.Thats why BB not showing up, imagine him having to answer to the media
On the Churchill Downs suspension -- \"I thought I had a good relation(ship) with them with all the stuff I\'ve done with my Triple Crown winners,\" he said. \"I\'m the face of the sport (emphasis added) and I\'m trying to promote my sport. And that was a pretty low blow, what they did yesterday. I wish they would\'ve called me.\"
OK -- last time we had a bandaid cause a positive. Now, we have either a pissing groom OR MAYBE an ointment applied to the rear end of the horse. Not, sure which but I am focusing on being transparent. I really really am. (Sure you are Bob).
Really, a pissing groom? You are now making a mockery of this!
All of clear minded people involved with this beautiful sport should feel like the rear end of your horse, Bob. Enough!
Richie:
I have had private conversations with more than a handful of folks who are well known on this board... What should alarm the racing \"Powers That Be\" is a fact that everyone I\'ve spoken to have significantly reduced their wagering bankrolls limited the over the past 6 months... One of the major reasons is the use of PED\'s... Who\'s using when?...who\'s not using when?...Lasix off/lasix on, etc... And now this... I\"ve been to the Preakness >15 times in the past 30 years...Haven\'t been there in the past 5 years only because Pimlico has become a degraded shell of itself... However I always had a significant bank roll wagering remotely on the Preakness card via NyraBets...
NOT THIS YEAR...
How can anyone wage ANY significant money not knowing just what the hell is going on with medications?
I\'ve owned thoroughbreds and was fortunate to win at Aqueduct, Belmont, Saratoga, Monmouth the Meadowlands and even Gulfstream...also, over the past 5 years I\'ve been in the top 5% of wagerers with NYRABETS..NOT ANYMORE.
I\'m not completely done with this game...but I\'m really close
The day for me was June 9th 2018. The move ups and arrogance that Baffert put on displayed that day was utterly shocking. I complained throughout the Saratoga meet and through the BC, but by then we had Navarro and Servis.
I live in Louisville and gave up my box this year, as CDI lost there minds with pricing. Thankfully, I can still make an appearance at Keeneland every so often. I\'ll wait until Kentucky Downs opens before I will even consider putting any meaningful wagers through the window again.
My doubt is that any sort of meaningful change comes from this.
John it’s great to hear from you and hope you are doing well.
The sad thing is that your story is a common one. The people who really love the racing game can’t be happy with what is going on on many levels. Sadly Racing doesn’t respond to horseplayers because we have shown absolutely no inclination to band together and speak with our wallets. Think Racing would get the message if 10-20,000 horseplayers got together, created a “manifesto†and said they would not bet a single dollar on Preakness weekend? That might be a start and is unlikely to happen.
Personally the game provides me with a once a week puzzle to solve; I will usually pick a multi race wager, usually a late Pick 4 or Pick 5. So my exposure is very limited though I must admit it has become a more challenging puzzle. Total time invested in racing 2021 maybe 3-4 hours study, 2-3 hours watching racing per week. I do not even look at entries/results during the week.
Between 1980-marriage(2001),Racing was my whole life. Working on the backstretch, seeing as much live racing as possible, reading as much about racing as possible, totally consumed. For all of that worshipping/ wagering I mostly have a barrel of boozy memories and a bunch of stories many of which I can’t tell and most that no one would believe anyway.
Was my 20 year infatuation with Racing such that I would “trade all my tomorrows for a single yesterdayâ€? Probably not, but I have met such a wide range of people at the trackâ€" you, Frank, JB, Uncle Bill, the backyard gang. I got to meet Fairmount and I think we were able to figure that his father and I were swimming in the same mutuel pools at defunct Cahokia Downs outside of St. Louis. So while the quality of racing may be in the tank, there always seem to be interesting folks attracted to the game.
Then of course there was the big Jamaican guy on the third floor at Belmont who called all white people by the same name (Mafia) (I was once at Belmont with a girlfriend, he called her Mrs. Mafia). Of course there was The Caveman, the walking embodiment of bad luck. If you were waiting for a photo to be posted, or your number was flashing in an inquiry, and you saw Cave walking towards you, or even saw him out of the corner of your eye, don’t worry about cashing.
Racing certainly not what it used to be, but then again other previously favored modes of diversion such as golf, broad jump, all night drinking binges etc are certainly more inaccessible at my age and in my condition.
I can enjoy a few hours of racing/handicapping a week, as long as I properly manage my expectations. I never expect Racing to be absolutely free of drugs and cheating and apparently despite all the recent initiatives all we have really done is limited whip use and lasix; the big problems are plain to see but remain largely unaddressed.
Mr Bee, I always enjoy your stories and writing ability -- don\'t have a clue what you do for a living but if writing isn\'t part of it -- it should be.
I have said before I have gambled on horses since the late 70\'s and have owned horses since 1990. THIS is a turning point for me. If Baffert comes away unscathed -- again -- with a split sample positive -- I am done. I have had the highest \"highs\" being part of 8 Grade 1 winners and making friends along the way (and, yes -- the stories).
This is gut check time. If nothing happens bye bye and I will find something else to take its place. We are looking at the underbelly of horse racing and it ain\'t pretty. If the powers that be don\'t care then I don\'t either.
If the split sample comes back positive he’ll be DQ’d out of the Derby regardless of how the drug got there.
If you think things are messy now, wait til after Saturday if Medina wins again and heads to NY. If he tests clean before and after and runs well what will it mean?
Strike thanks for the kind words.
If this split sample confirms original results, and Racing does not take its
opportunity to sanction a high profile repeat offender, lets do away with the
whole notion of the \"Sport of Kings\" and bring in Vince McMahon to be national
racing czar.
Beta Bob\'s current problem is that he is messing with the BIG money--Grade I
races, stallions worth millions. Stallion value is of course determined by
pedigree and statistics so it is unlikely the value of an Arrogate, AmPhar,
Justify or Authentic will be affected by the fact that they were trained by
Baffert.
Baffert really made a problem for himself by messing with the only race run at
any of the CD tracks that CD really cares about; CD\'s action was swift and certain.
I think BB\'s business will suffer whether he is sanctioned or not; sadly ALL of
Racing is suffering now due to BB\'s actions and behavior.
Richie
Agree 100%
JB... If what you suggest comes true then it\'s nothing more than a total shit show...
Then again it might be just what this game needs...
John
JB:
Of course this would end up in court but it would be interesting if NYRA made ME\'s
entry in the Belmont contingent on a clean Derby split sample.
Richie:
Don\'t be surprised if that\'s EXACTLY what they do...
Richiebee wrote:
a high profile repeat offender
_________________________
Hate to quibble but you spelled the word SERIAL wrong above.
Fairmont...
I thought it was Cereal? Lol...nice to see you posting again!
John
If anyone doesn\'t think Baffert has not thought about, asked, or pondered how to influence the testing lab he will choose (of potentially 7 labs) for the split sample, they are delusional.
Meanwhile, Lukas is out there sending messages to the split sample lab saying “I would absolutely today tell my colleagues that we need to just dismiss this, throw it out, put the Derby winner back on the throne and move on. You almost think the lab should probably have poured it down the sink in the first place.â€
These guys are buddies and pals now. Back in the good old days, Lukas said Baffert \"has been on scholarship his whole life.\"
Racing sure is the best entertainment. Used to be for gambling reasons but now it is for the absurdity of all this nonsense. I have to wonder what the good folks of other racing countries think of this whole fiasco.
I\'ve attempted to change my name to FanDuel Racing fka Fairmount but I don\'t recall the vital info in my TG account to change it LOL
Richieâ€" My point is, what would that say about the importance of the Derby positive, and the likelihood of it being an attempt to cheat?
JB there is a lot going on there. I am not certain that the trainer’s intent/ attempt to cheat is even relevant. As Fairduel’s Jesuit law professors likely taught him, mens rea is not an element of the offense.
If the split comes back clean that calls the entire testing process into question. Send samples to two other labs?
I know BB is a lightning rod but for me too many voices out there saying that injected hock/stifle too close to race day could produce the overage found in ME. If this is a horse with a weak hind end and he even competes in three races in five weeks without lasix that would be quite a training feat.
I guess your point is the testing regulations are flawed and need to be changed. I cannot argue with that. But, for the time being the rules and regulations are what they are. Real time. Everyone either knows them or should not be training, owning or providing vet services.
If he is disqualified from the KY Derby for the positives -- he deserves it. If he wins the next 2 Triple Crown races and is clean -- he deserves it. But that doesn\'t in any way -- to me -- mean that he deserves the KY Derby win if he is disqualified -- under the current rules/regulations.
You are much more confident that if he gets another positive -- albeit outside of his home track -- that he will suffer the consequences.
No. My point is not about testing and punishment (this time, I’ve been banging that drum for over 15 years). If the positive is confirmed the horse has to be DQ’d, no matter how it got there, barring someone actually flaking him.
My point is the effect of that drug, in this situation, was negligible. I will handicap that horse in the Preakness as if the whole thing had not happened. And any serious trainer would know that, and that the horse was sure to test positive. I told someone hours before the ointment story broke that it was going to turn out to be something like that. Againâ€" I’m not taking a position on Baffert in general or saying he’s an angel. But by far the most likely explanation is exactly what he has said, simply because he’s not stupid, nuts, or self destructive.
makrmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so a person who has bac of double or .12 because
> they ate a rum cake but it didnt effect the
> outcome of their driving should just get off? I
> mean miniscule or not this was double the
> limit...innocent or not this was double the
> limit..and not the first time...if the split comes
> back he has to be dq...if not what is the point?
The \"double the limit\" was the media (because of Baffert\'s lawyer) reported mistake. The overage was not double because the allowance of the positive rating is zero. The lawyer, and then the media, said the allowance was 10 and the reading was 21.
The rules are it must be zero and it was 21.
It’s funny I feel the same way I use to feel about the trotters
JB,
We are not a point where we can say with any confidence what effect the Beta had on MS. One reason is that what we know about this matter is what Baffert has chosen to reveal. That’s it, period. We have no veterinary records. We have no testimony from any veterinarian as to what MS was given, why, and when. And some of what Baffert has revealed is gossamer, like the groom urination story, which Mary Scollay effectively debunked in the interview I posted earlier this week, and which Baffert has apparently now abandoned. In the same vein, we have no basis to conclude that the photo he supplied of a horse showing a skin ailment is MS, or even if it is of MS, when it was taken, although some good legwork by Natalie Voss has concluded that the metadata indicates that photo was taken on Tuesday May 11th, two days ago, well after the Derby. So in sum, we know virtually nothing in terms of the relevant facts of the horse’s condition at various points, including on Derby Day.
If by the effect was negligible you mean that even in its intended use, Beta would not have moved up MS as Clenbuterol or EPO would have, ok. But at the same time, we can’t even say at this point that MS could have raced without the benefit of a powerful corticosteroid that was administered 72 hours before test time. It\'s possible he has some serious inflammation or a hind end issue. Maybe not but again, why haven’t the vet(s) who treated him been produced and the vet records provided? And what else was he being treated with, so that we are able to determine what interactions there might have been between Beta and other medications/treatments, another relevant consideration? Since Baffert seems to be largely in crisis-management mode, it’s hard to understand why we haven’t been provided with all that evidence if it’s exculpatory.
I realize you aren’t here to defend Baffert and I’m not here to prosecute him either. But to give him any benefit of the doubt requires us now to believe that before the biggest race on our calendar, with a purse of approximately $1.5M, potentially millions of dollars of stud fees at stake, a race he had won six times prior, and with a raft of drug positives that he promised to reverse, even going so far six months ago to trumpet that he was hiring an independent veterinarian to provide additional oversight for his barn (which never happened, by the way), that he was so grossly negligent as to treat an ailment with Otomax, a product that contained what he knew to be a regulated substance, a fact which appeared on the Otomax label. It’s a lot to swallow.
Everybody needs to read what I have said more carefully (I.E., my point about IF Medina runs well in the Preakness what it would say about the (non) effect of the drug in the Derby).
To my knowledge the groom pissing story wasn’t about this occurrence, and I’m not aware of anything saying Baffert himself put the ointment on the horse or was even aware of it. He may well have been 3,000 miles away. Which doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be DQ’dâ€" but it means that point is irrelevant.
For the rest I’m tired of repeating myself. He had a positive with Gamine last year, same weekend, same testing regimen, same drug. He’s not an idiot, he’s not suicidal. And he would have to beâ€" with absolutely minimal upside.
I can\'t believe anyone would buy the \"he isn\'t stupid\" defense. Yes, he is. He\'s cheated even after being caught cheating. That sounds pretty stupid to me.
If he cheated he is stupid. See? We agree.
I’ve been using TG FIGS for 2 years and finally am compelled to say something on this board. TGJB, your reasoning makes sense to me. Since the risk/benefit isn’t worth using the ointment even close to the race, the only thing that makes sense assuming Baffert is a rational person is that Medina had a joint injected with the steroid recently, and they kept using the ointment as a cover story if it was detected. At least that’s the only way it makes sense to me.
IF it got detected?
A) he knows from Gamine last year it WOULD be detected.
B) no cover story would keep the horse from being DQ’d. So he wouldn’t get the win or the money, and would get a fine, suspension and disgrace.
Yeah, why not.
so you are dismissing the servis/navarro playbook where what they were giving would possibly trigger false positives for small amounts of dex,etc? It just very suspicious to have multiple minor contaminations in a short period.
October 20, 2020. Filly Gamine was disqualified from third to last in the Kentucky Oaks on Sept. 4 after testing positive with 27 picograms of betamethasone. Baffert did not appeal and was fined $1,500.
Hopefully, this case will go away as easily as that one did assuming the split comes back positive (and I think it will -- I am sure a positive test on the Kentucky Derby winner was retested 100 times by the lab).
Please -- no appeals.
Please -- no lawsuits.
I’m not dismissing anything. I’m saying there is no scenario IN THIS CASE where it’s intentional that makes sense.
I mentioned it before, but us Met fans remember Jerry Mejia, our closer who got nailed three (3) times for the same easily testable steroid and banned for life.
That’s the closest thing I can think of to what this would have to be. But as I said before, that guy had less to lose and more to gain. And was no genius. Presumably he’s bagging groceries somewhere.
It is one possibility, but absent seeing the vet records and Baffert/Zedan (btw, where is he in all this?) making all treating vets available to speak on all relevant topics, all of this is guesswork at best.
In short, this is another explanation as to why he doesn\'t have to be stupid to have \"cheated.\" The horse might have needed Beta to make it to the starting gate, or even to pass vet inspection, and Baffert might have learned from the Gamine episode some methods he believed would conceal the administration. I\'ve lost track of how many times over the years I have read on this board some version of the \"cheaters are decades ahead of the testers.\" He might have rationally concluded that he could escape detection. Who knows? All I know so far is that what we have been told is BS from Bobby, which makes it hard to credit any of his explanations, even that the horse was ever given Otomax.
Wait, this isn\'t his first foray into the doping scene, is it? I seem to recall one or two or a dozen other stories like this (Merneith, Gamine and the aptly-named Charlatan come to mind.) Each one taking place after he had already been caught before. I believe there is ample evidence that he is, in fact, stupid. Criminals aren\'t known for their immense ability to stop themselves from committing crimes, especially when they repeatedly get away with it.
not to mention EGO...this put him top of the list with derby wins
JB:
Again, I am pretty certain that under \"absolute insurer\" rules the \"I\" word
...\"intent\" ... is not taken into consideration.
A trainer who did NOT have an extensive record of overages might get the benefit
of the doubt or leniency in a case such as this, Baffert will not.
If I was the CEO of Merck, I would not be happy that Baffert has thrown Otomax into the mix of what possibly caused the positive. He says the treatment began on April 3 and stopped on May 1. The hind end photo (not dated but believed to be May 11) shows what appears to be significant dermatitis -- implying the product after a month plus of daily application just doesn\'t work.
Againâ€" everyone needs to read what I’ve been writing more carefully.
Good point. I’m stumped. It makes no sense whatsoever. We should use Hong Kong as a model for stopping this nonsense. But I’m not happy we’ve gone back to the occasional lasix ban in lieu of a comprehensive sensible policy- back to the bad old days of guessing what lasix off means. It seemed to mean a lot in the past when horses came from Monmouth to toga and didn’t run a step.
Totally off topic â€" but I wondered where is Mejia now? In 2018, MLB announced that MejÃa was being reinstated. He pitched a few innings in the Dominican Summer League Mets and was released by that organization at the end of the year. In early 2019 he signed a minor league contract with the Red Sox where he went 2-8 with eight saves and a 6.02 ERA. He signed with a team in the Mexican League in 2020 but did not play due but the cancellation the season because of the pandemic. So indeed, he may be bagging groceries now.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/250122/baffert-horses-clear-first-round-of-maryland-testing
What will happen if both Baffert’s run pairs or tops, the xrayed clean, turned over the vet records and so did the vet, and have been tested multiple times.
If they x or off, the suspicions will grow.
I like both horses in the race , and actually see them running 1-2.
All this did was create a headache for people like me who are trying to bring new parimutuel money to the game.
When I was explaining that this horse tested positive for a medication that is allowed but not on race day, to my non racing friends, I got a lot of , “that makes no senseâ€, why can you use it , then get in trouble for using it. Obviously the withdrawal times are worthless when checking at the picogram level because each horse is different.
Every one wants an equal playing field, if they can test Bafferts horses multiple times this week, why don’t they just pull blood every other day regardless if they are racing or not? Along with strict surveillance, and hospital like cleanliness, and meticulous record keeping , you give them no excuses. Then at the first offense you can give them the Hollendorfer, banned for life. The tracks and the horsemen have a lot of work to do.
I have seen Hollendorfer\'s name mentioned a number of times as compared with the Baffert Kentucky Derby positive. Remember --
Hollendorfer was the most prominent trainer to be banned from Stronach Group tracks in the wake of publicity surrounding the deaths of 30 horses during racing or training at Santa Anita in the winter-spring season that ended June 30, 2019.
The complete Hollendorfer story was never relayed -- at least to me -- but as I understand it he was told not to work an unsound horse and that same horse broke down and had to be euthanized after that work. Someone else might have better information than this but my point is the ban was not specifically based on drug positives; it had to do with the reckless ignorance of a specific directive during a time when multiple horses were breaking down.
Richie, I can\'t pronounce the name of the Drug Medina Spirit had in his blood, however, I do know its a steroid. I know also there is a Zero Tolerance policy in regard to any amount discovered in a Horse\'s blood post race. It is a matter of Strict Liability. They did not prevent the violation and thus it is on Baffert.
Can steroids improve performance? Well they sure do in humans. If they don\'t have that effect upon Equines, I\'m not in that loop. As stated, this Steroid is zero tolerance on Race Day.
I\'ve read Baffert is not dumb. Never really listened to him about anything but his horses. The strained arguments he made hiding from the positive certainly indicate he is not a Rocket Scientist. He really impeached himself, likely because he was desperate being apprehended upon the biggest weekend for the second year running. However, dragging out old defenses did not illustrate a clever man. He is old now and clearly he is slipping in more than one area.
Folks see things differently, but the amount of the Steroid discovered with Gamine last year and now Medina Spirit indicates they injected those horses very close to the \"Half Life\" expiration moment. The Vets are saying the half life indicates
very close to 3 days prior to the races. The suggestion by the State is 14 days beforehand. They really want these horses racing very close to the Drug just having lapsed in detectibility.
For those that believe the barn is too savvy to risk the drug being detected, there is a reason why they may risk it and lose out to not enough leadtime or better State Techinique and Lab testing...and clearly that reason is straighforward.
The reward is worth the risk and that the reward has been ongoing.
I\'m Not an Addict (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT2SsWOCoEw&t=26s)
>
>richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Strike thanks for the kind words. If this split sample confirms original results,
> and Racing does not take its
> opportunity to sanction a high profile repeat
> offender, lets do away with the
> whole notion of the \"Sport of Kings\" and bring in
> Vince McMahon to be national
> racing czar.
>
> Beta Bob\'s current problem is that he is messing
> with the BIG money--Grade I
> races, stallions worth millions. Stallion value is
> of course determined by
> pedigree and statistics so it is unlikely the
> value of an Arrogate, AmPhar,
> Justify or Authentic will be affected by the fact
> that they were trained by
> Baffert.
>
> Baffert really made a problem for himself by
> messing with the only race run at
> any of the CD tracks that CD really cares about;
> CD\'s action was swift and certain.
>
> I think BB\'s business will suffer whether he is
> sanctioned or not; sadly ALL of
> Racing is suffering now due to BB\'s actions and
> behavior.
Silver,
The CHRB read your post apparently. See the story in the link below. But the story raises two questions for me.
First, how does a horse die of pneumonia? Bob is just having some really really bad luck lately. Luck so bad it seems unbelievable. Must be someone out to get him as he alluded to in his so called \"presser\" when announcing Medina\'s Derby positive.
Second, if the CHRB and Stronach are so worried about Due Process for trainers, then what happened with Due Process for Jerry Hollendorfer?
I doubt any solid answers to either one of these is readily forthcoming.
https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Calif_board_says_it_cannot_suspend_Baffert_without_due_process_123
A couple of publications quoted Baffert\'s lawyer a couple of weeks ago that they have not selected the lab to conduct the split test. Apparently, there is no required timeframe that Baffert\'s team needs to meet for such a lab selection. Speculation at the time was an intentional stall to allow Baffert to run in the Belmont. Of course, the suspension quashed any effort for him to enter horses in races.
That brings us to \"due process.\" I assume the term is being used in its literal meaning -- fair treatment through a judicial system -- in this case a Hearing. I further assume that as long as Baffert\'s team stalls by not selecting a lab to test the split sample, there will be no Hearing and therefore no due process provided.
Obviously, gaming the system...again.
First off I didnt say Baffert was \"Not Guilty\". I said he needs to have his day and laying low would not he a bad idea.
I\'ve also explained the economics of his operation. And for every Nadal or Charlatin he has there are 8 to 10 in that same price range that never make it to the Track. Speaking of those two they were probably syndicated for about $25M total. And they had how many total career races? Those investors haven\'t fired Baffert yet.
It\'s funny how Baffert sends Medina Spirit to the lead. He wires the Derby field running a 1. Backs it up with 3rd in the Preakness after a contested pace. Al Stall and Brad Cox send out 1X Runners on Derby Day and they runs 1\'s. One wins by 11 the other by 5. Both Trainers have a record. But everyone is fine. We got Bob so racing is now The Sport of Clean.....
Silver Charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First off I didnt say Baffert was \"Not Guilty\". I
> said he needs to have his day and laying low would
> not he a bad idea.
>
> I\'ve also explained the economics of his
> operation. And for every Nadal or Charlatin he has
> there are 8 to 10 in that same price range that
> never make it to the Track. Speaking of those two
> they were probably syndicated for about $25M
> total. And they had how many total career races?
> Those investors haven\'t fired Baffert yet.
>
> It\'s funny how Baffert sends Medina Spirit to the
> lead. He wires the Derby field running a 1. Backs
> it up with 3rd in the Preakness after a contested
> pace. Al Stall and Brad Cox send out 1X Runners on
> Derby Day and they runs 1\'s. One wins by 11 the
> other by 5. Both Trainers have a record. But
> everyone is fine. We got Bob so racing is now The
> Sport of Clean.....
You really should stop trying to deflect the conversation away from Baffert\'s history by saying other usual suspects are getting a free pass. Whether they are or not by the authorities is an issue I can\'t address, but they aren\'t by the bettors and most of the posters on this board. No one is happy about the overall state of racing and the inconsistencies of enforcement, and the fact that a number of trainers are sucking the life out of betting pools. However, if Baffert is the whipping boy of the moment, he has earned it with a Lifetime Achievement Award on many of the biggest days of racing.
I guess by looking at \"Your Name\" -- Silver Charm -- we know where your feelings are. Mentioning that Baffert\'s owners haven\'t fired him yet totally missed the point. Of course they haven\'t. UNTIL. He is labeled a cheater. UNTIL. His purse wins are wiped out. UNTIL. He is known for disrespecting the horses under his care -- and their value drops. UNTIL the CHRB grows some balls. The owners will continue to love him.
Why wouldn\'t they?