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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: Silver Charm on March 14, 2020, 10:48:58 AM

Title: The Derby will be Delayed
Post by: Silver Charm on March 14, 2020, 10:48:58 AM
2nd or 3rd Week in June. Announcement coming in a week
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed
Post by: RICH on March 16, 2020, 11:40:26 AM
so, looking at the Belmont on july 11, week before Saratoga?
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed
Post by: jma11473 on March 16, 2020, 11:50:29 AM
I understand the desire to nail down a date for travel purposes, UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES, but any picking of dates of something a few months from now is pure wishful thinking.
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed
Post by: Dick Powell on March 16, 2020, 12:08:17 PM
Why not the Belmont at Saratoga?
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed
Post by: BB on March 16, 2020, 12:21:10 PM
Dick Powell Wrote:
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> Why not the Belmont at Saratoga?

Well, you can\'t do 12 furlongs for one thing. Been more than a century since it was run at anything other than 12F.
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed
Post by: Dick Powell on March 16, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Great point but I think all bets are off this year.
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed
Post by: BB on March 16, 2020, 03:12:56 PM
Dick Powell Wrote:
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> Great point but I think all bets are off this
> year.

That\'s for damn sure! If the Derby is on the first Saturday in September, Baffert will be using it as a prep for the BC Classic.
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed
Post by: toppled on March 16, 2020, 04:09:30 PM
Since BB told us why not, just make the Travers the 3rd leg of the Triple Crown this year.  

Here\'s a thought: Say we get the worst case scenario & they can still race but with no fans in August.  Why even bother coming up to Saratoga if the fans can\'t get in?  Just stay downstate since we\'ll all be betting from home anyway. I imagine most of the horsemen would rather not uproot to Saratoga in order to race in front of an empty grandstand for 8 weeks.
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed - September it now Seems
Post by: Silver Charm on March 16, 2020, 04:53:27 PM
There will be a press conference tomorrow and now it seems it\'s being pushed back until September. With Keeneland canceling the entire meet anything scheduled to soon is more potential chaos I guess

Source tells LEX 18 that Derby could be postponed until later this year
https://www.lex18.com/sports/race-to-the-derby/source-tells-lex-18-that-derby-could-be-postponed-until-later-this-year
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed - September it now Seems
Post by: Silver Charm on March 16, 2020, 06:09:40 PM
NBC’s contractual commitment to Notre Dame leaves only two Saturdays between late August and early December when the network is not broadcasting Fighting Irish football: Sept. 5 and Oct. 24. Because the latter date falls only two weeks before the Breeders’ Cup is scheduled to be conducted at Keeneland, a tough turnaround for top 3-year-olds, the Sept. 5 date was always more logical and more likely.
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed - September it now Seems
Post by: moosepalm on March 16, 2020, 06:24:00 PM
Silver Charm Wrote:
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> NBC’s contractual commitment to Notre
> Dame leaves only two Saturdays between late
> August and early December when the network is not
> broadcasting Fighting Irish football: Sept. 5 and
> Oct. 24. Because the latter date falls only two
> weeks before the Breeders’ Cup is scheduled to
> be conducted at Keeneland, a tough turnaround for
> top 3-year-olds, the Sept. 5 date was always more
> logical and more likely.


NBC only broadcasts Notre Dame home games.  Why would that block out every Saturday in that span of time?  They have six home games in the coming season.
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed - September it now Seems
Post by: TGJB on March 16, 2020, 06:33:38 PM
https://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/2020/03/16/churchill-downs-postpones-the-kentucky-derby-heres.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed - September it now Seems
Post by: Silver Charm on March 16, 2020, 07:04:38 PM
As far as my original probable date remember a few days ago Keeneland was going to run with no fans. Now there is NO Keeneland Meet. So clearly there have been a lot more thought put into the health situation occurring now.

As far as the CD Stock many sports and gaming stocks have been crushed. Penn Gaming which had Fan Duel went from $32 to $8 since there are literally no sports to bet on. Fanless Derby? Take my word many of the Big Checks for tickets are cut back in December. They sit on the Books as Deferred Revenue. Millions would have to be refunded. Analysts and Investors could have been concerned that Revenue and Cash would be lost. But no longer.....
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed - September it now Seems
Post by: slewzapper on March 16, 2020, 07:11:24 PM
Any thoughts as to qualifying criteria? New designated races? Spring colts placed in a bubble? Top summer colts excluded?
Title: Travers
Post by: milwmike on March 17, 2020, 05:35:43 AM
No way this isn’t moved as well.
Title: What happens to the Derby Futures bets?
Post by: toppled on March 17, 2020, 06:07:44 AM
Personally, I have no tickets this year, but I\'d like to know how they\'re going to handle Derby Future bets.  If I had a ticket based on a May Derby, I\'d want nothing less than a full refund immediately.
Title: Re: Travers
Post by: rezlegal on March 17, 2020, 07:11:32 AM
From everything we hear I would be shocked- shocked- if there was a meet in Saratoga this year.
Title: Re: What happens to the Derby Futures bets?
Post by: BitPlayer on March 17, 2020, 07:17:57 AM
I do have a couple of \"all others\" tickets and looked at the rules the other day.  I would say it is not clear.  The rules talk about the Derby being run on May 2 and the Oaks being run on May 1 and say that if the race is not run, there will be refunds.  Does not run in May equal \"not run?\"  The rules also have clause dealing with \"unforeseen\" circumstances.  It says that CDI will exercise \"reasonable discretion\" guided by general parimutuel practice, subject to agreement by the stewards and the Kentucky racing commission.

I agree that a refund is probably in order, but understand that the future wager is probably not high on the list of concerns at the moment.  If this is not clarified immediately, I suspect clarity will come when the time for the final pool rolls around.
Title: Re: What happens to the Derby Futures bets?
Post by: Silver Charm on March 17, 2020, 07:19:22 AM
That\'s a great point because someone who had The Field has a major edge. And most certainly the Points System has to be redone. And maybe it\'s done simply by Selection.

How many later developers have there been who did well in the Summer. The Mott Rat who won one division of the Risen Star with all of an 82 Beyer or something right now is IN THE Derby.
Title: Re: Travers
Post by: Dick Powell on March 17, 2020, 08:24:23 AM
Based on what? What are you hearing?
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed
Post by: Dick Powell on March 17, 2020, 08:33:43 AM
From 1963 through 1967, the Belmont Stakes was run at Aqueduct at 1 1/2 miles. Race started at the 3/8ths pole on the far turn.
Title: Re: Travers
Post by: Strike on March 17, 2020, 09:32:50 AM
milwmike Wrote:
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> No way this isn’t moved as well.

100%. Travers scheduled for August 29 and new date for KY Derby is September 5. (You wonder if there was even a discussion between the 2 governing entities -- probably not).
Title: Re: Stakes Schedules
Post by: BitPlayer on March 17, 2020, 10:48:37 AM
From what I\'ve read, it seems Churchill isn\'t just planning to run the Oaks and Derby on September 4 and 5.  They are planning to move all the supporting stakes to those dates as well.   That\'s going to require everyone to rethink their big days.  It is probably too early to start making definitive plans now.  A lot will depend on the course of the coronavirus and how much the absence of casino money forces tracks to adjust their purses.

What happens in the near term will be interesting.  How many tracks will continue to run without crowds?  Will handle that would otherwise have gone to cancelled meets (like Keeneland) disappear or move elsewhere?
Title: Re: Stakes Schedules Preakness moved to September
Post by: Silver Charm on March 17, 2020, 11:03:23 AM
https://www.wbaltv.com/article/preakness-postponed-coronavirus/31682468
Title: Re: What happens to the Derby Futures bets?
Post by: Boscar Obarra on March 17, 2020, 11:15:28 AM
must be something in the rules about cancellation

postponement ?  who knows
Title: Re: What happens to the Derby Futures bets?
Post by: johnnym on March 17, 2020, 11:55:41 AM
https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Churchill_Downs_to_honor_Kentucky_Derby_Future_Wager_bets_123

Still active wagers

Between football all the races being moved add the breeders cup
I don’t know if I’m going to be a good father on Saturdays.
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed
Post by: BB on March 17, 2020, 12:18:20 PM
Thanks, Dick. Funny thing, figured 12F at the Spa would have to start on the turn and that would be bad news for a classic race, but totally forgot that the Big A is also a 9F oval. I wonder how big the fields were for those races.

Regardless, I can\'t overstate how much I hate starting a big race on a turn. To me, it\'s a good reason to not have the BC at Belmont. I remember when they drew the field for the \'90 BC Classic and Dispersal (a speedball) drew outside. Wayne Lukas had a great quote ... \"If I was Bud Delp, I\'d be throwing up right now\".
Title: Re: The Derby will be Delayed - September it now Seems
Post by: barn rabbit on March 17, 2020, 05:07:23 PM
thats a good question