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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: sunny on March 09, 2020, 08:02:36 AM

Title: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: sunny on March 09, 2020, 08:02:36 AM
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-horse-doping-takedown-20200309-mjuc5f7g4ndudayvd64tactxfu-story.html
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: sunny on March 09, 2020, 08:34:56 AM
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/jason-servis-jorge-navarro-face-federal-indictment-in-doping-scheme/
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: hellersorr on March 09, 2020, 08:36:26 AM
Not surprised at what the trainers were doing but am surprised at the bust.

Yuge.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: johnnym on March 09, 2020, 08:58:38 AM
Nothing west of the Mississippi?
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: TGJB on March 09, 2020, 09:16:58 AM
Here\'s a prediction. Almost all the names in the indictment are not trainers, but vets and distributors, and they appear to have them dead to rights, with wiretaps and a confidential informant. Those guys are looking at serious time, and as opposed to the trainers, may have LOTS of names to give up, including trainers, all over the world. This might just be getting started.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: grinder on March 09, 2020, 09:18:58 AM
Getting your hand slapped with a nominal fine for a bad test by a state regulator is one thing, but when the DA from the Southern District of NY is coming for you - look out. Certainly a shot across the bow for the rest of the usual suspects out there.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: JohnTChance on March 09, 2020, 09:26:33 AM
That’s a fascinating question. I can’t wait for Michael Dubb (who has horses with Servis) to procliam: “Gee... I had no idea!”
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Boscar Obarra on March 09, 2020, 09:30:06 AM
Overdue by

1) 5 years

2) 10 years

3) 20 years


 really.  better late then never I guess.

 And if anyone out there , radio hosts in particular, didn\'t know this was a natural fact LONG  before this, they really should find a different hobby
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Strike on March 09, 2020, 09:38:48 AM
I read the Navarro indictment. The doping and subsequent death of XY Jet is just sick. Massive heart attack from all of the bullshit being pumped into the horse.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: wrongly1 on March 09, 2020, 09:52:38 AM
Jerry

Do you think the Penn National case was a source of information?
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: TGJB on March 09, 2020, 10:05:32 AM
No idea, yet. A lot of shoes are gonna be dropping.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: JohnTChance on March 09, 2020, 10:10:38 AM
Just getting started, indeed. Over the next 8-12 months, racing undoubtedly will mimic the downturn in the world economy due to the current health crisis.

Beware near term, as it relates to players using this site, I suspect vets now will pull back to less aggressive modus operandis. And as a consequence, we’ll see some odd and head-scratching results ahead. Some horses may not run as well as you think. It’ll be like handicapping those Breeder’s Cup Juvenile races at Santa Anita with 2-yr. olds denied lasix. Just sayin...
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: TGJB on March 09, 2020, 10:18:58 AM
John, hold that thought, and watch this space.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: TempletonPeck on March 09, 2020, 10:48:52 AM
I would\'ve expected the federales would\'ve gotten taps/warrants via the information they already had on the vets and dealers to reveal potential CA/KY/other connections, but maybe the west coast/KY set were more careful about not using phones?

Too soon to tell.

As I type: https://twitter.com/FBILouisville/status/1237062268061388802?s=20

(FBI Louisville confirms they are conducting \"judicially authorized activity\" - read: kicking in the door - at a KY compounding pharmacy.)
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: TGJB on March 09, 2020, 10:51:04 AM
By the way, news reports had 27 people being indicted, which is pretty specific. I only counted 19 in that indictment.

I can hazard a guess as to what the Louisville joint is. If I\'m right they also serve breakfast.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Bet Twice on March 09, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
Perhaps upgrading The Mott’s of the world would be a way to play it.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: TempletonPeck on March 09, 2020, 10:59:28 AM
There are 3 other (i.e., other than Navarro/Servis) indictments with a total of 8 other defendants (so 27, total).

If anyone wants some light reading:

Navarro et al.: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1256656/download

Robinson and Mangini:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1256661/download

Izhaki and Lebowitz:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1256651/download

Grasso, Poliseno, Guinn, and Guido:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1256646/download
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Agastache on March 09, 2020, 11:01:31 AM
Breakfast??? Like Wagner\'s????
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Bet Twice on March 09, 2020, 11:03:48 AM
Just speculation, but the timing of Gary and Kieran leaving with this shoe dropping is interesting.  Not suggesting they were cheating, but interesting nonetheless.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: TGJB on March 09, 2020, 11:18:39 AM
It might make them reconsider.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: TempletonPeck on March 09, 2020, 11:29:05 AM
From the MANGINI/ROBINSON indictment, paragraph 26(b): \"On or about December 18, 2019, MANGINI shipped and caused to be shipped, via the USPS, approximately 24 parcels of race horse PEDs from a location in Florida to, among other locations, AZ, CA, KY, LA, MI, MO, OH, OK, PA, TN, TX, UT, WA, and the Spanish island of Mallorca.\"

Yikes.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: richiebee on March 09, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
What would be an interesting story is how Gary Contessa, good guy and perennial
8% - 10% winning trainer, could be using PEDs so ineptly.

As to KMac, he has been successful on the racetrack in all of his endeavors,
jock agent for Chris Antley, assistant trainer for D. Wayne, first US trainer
to uproot and head for the Middle East, etc. and he will retire with his reputation intact.

Its kind of sad that these two retiring trainers are tied in to Navarro and
Servis in this thread. Also sad that many owners who have aligned themselves
almost exclusively with high percentage trainers for decades now seem to be
above mention. Also sad that EPO (\"elephant juice\") is still being used
undetected, as it has been since the late 1970s.

If a test (kind of a popular word these days) can be developed for some of
these compounded substances/PEDS, any frozen samples from the past few years
could prove very important, and may result in a much wider net being cast.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: hellersorr on March 09, 2020, 11:40:03 AM
I never did trust those guys at Mallorca. . . .
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Boscar Obarra on March 09, 2020, 12:00:07 PM
Another one who has mastered the art of the interview
Title: Re: Who owned Nanoosh?
Post by: BitPlayer on March 09, 2020, 12:01:09 PM
There is a mention in the Navarro indictment of a conference call between Navarro and \"the operators of a racing stable in California,\" during which the administration of PED\'s to \"Nanoosh\" was discussed.  At the time, Nanoosh was owned by Rockingham Ranch, Zayat Stables, LLC and David Bernsen, LLC.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: sunny on March 09, 2020, 12:08:43 PM
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/indictments-horse-doping-case
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Boscar Obarra on March 09, 2020, 12:09:56 PM
Yeah, surprised it took so long
Title: 5-5 on Belmont day
Post by: johnnym on March 09, 2020, 12:13:48 PM
2017 a certain west coast trainer went East 5-5 on Belmont day..
Title: Re: 5-5 on Belmont day
Post by: P-Dub on March 09, 2020, 12:22:02 PM
johnnym Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2017 a certain west coast trainer went East 5-5 on
> Belmont day..


Same guy that had several horses drop dead??

Most ran big, VERY big that day
Title: Re: 5-5 on Belmont day
Post by: Boscar Obarra on March 09, 2020, 12:42:23 PM
Re: Link to Christian Hellmers interview with Baffert (579 Views)
Posted by: Boscar Obarra (IP Logged)
Date: October 09, 2018 10:41PM

You know what we all wanted was a good old 60 minutes type interview circa Mike Wallace, but you did the best you could without getting in his face
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: JohnTChance on March 09, 2020, 12:47:54 PM
Question when the feds get super-vet Kristian Rhein in a room:

Q: “Mr. Rhein, can we see the vet bills for the horses you treated such as MUCHO MACHO MAN (who won the 2017 BC Classic) and MIND YOUR BISCUITS?
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: trackjohn on March 09, 2020, 01:01:57 PM
Like I\'ve said... just the tip of the iceberg... Just wait until the vets start flipping... THAT\'S when things will get interesting...
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: wrongly1 on March 09, 2020, 01:19:31 PM
https://www.wdrb.com/news/disqualified-derby-winner-maximum-security-s-trainer-among-facing-federal/article_f8e89a1e-6212-11ea-9dad-23a4d61d3e65.html

Another intercepted call includes Servis talking to veterinarian Kristian Rhein about plans to mask drugs given to Maximum Security before the 2019 Pegasus Stakes.

\"They don\'t even have a test for it,\" Rhein is heard telling Servis. \". . . There\'s no test for it in America.\"
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: rezlegal on March 09, 2020, 01:30:32 PM
Were it up to me I would encourage the Saudi’s to seek extradition of Servis and Navarro.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: wrongly1 on March 09, 2020, 01:30:34 PM
In response to a number of media inquiries, FBI Louisville will confirm it is conducting judicially authorized activity with @US_FDA
 at Tailor Made Compounding, 200 Moore Drive, Nicholasville, KY.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: trackjohn on March 09, 2020, 01:34:41 PM
I would start a GoFundMe page to help pay for their flights to Dubai!!
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Strike on March 09, 2020, 01:38:15 PM
rezlegal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Were it up to me I would encourage the Saudi’s
> to seek extradition of Servis and Navarro.

A California-based Racing Stable is also mentioned. The owner\'s name is not but it probably is not difficult to figure out who it is. I won\'t speculate here. Pretty damaging comments. I am surprised they aren\'t going after him at this time -- maybe trying to get him to \"sing\" or else. Pretty ugly stuff.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Roman on March 09, 2020, 02:18:57 PM
https://www.thorograph.com/phorum/read.php?1,117835,117835#msg-117835
this didn\'t age well
this whole story has hints of Eric Ledford at the Big M in the 2000\'s
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Silver Charm on March 09, 2020, 02:58:06 PM
Hahaha.

•What new evidence did they gather in the last 9 days?

•Why not grab the guy as he was ready to fly over there? To Dubai that is.
 
•Also what did Coolmore pay for their 50%? Of a $16k claimer?

• Servis is innocent until proven guilty. This looks like a John DeLorean set up :)
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Bet Twice on March 09, 2020, 07:21:17 PM
As I clearly said, I wasn’t implying they were cheating.  I was simply pointing out that the timing was interesting.  Did they aid in the investigation  in some way?  Did they know the shoe was about to drop and know the sport would be severely tarnished?
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: JR on March 09, 2020, 07:23:40 PM
I don’t believe there’s a trainer making a living in this game today that doesn’t have a trunk full of meds.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: JR on March 09, 2020, 07:28:01 PM
Not surprised about the findings just surprised at how long it took for them to get caught.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: Boscar Obarra on March 09, 2020, 08:27:01 PM
People have trunks full of meds.  Ever see the nonsense that fills medicine cabinets ?

  The trick is how and when they are used. As well as what.

  The guys pissed in our eye and told us it was raining.

  And the folks in charge of keeping the game clean , took out umbrellas.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: JR on March 09, 2020, 08:36:32 PM
I really doubt they bother to load a lot of nonsense in their trunks.
Title: Re: Who amongst us is surprised?
Post by: richiebee on March 09, 2020, 11:57:52 PM
Bet:

So you are saying that you weren\'t implying they were cheating, but maybe
implying that they were relators/whistleblowers aka \"Rats\"?

I think the only coincidence is that the two trainers announced their
retirement at about the same time. Gary Contessa\'s wife is sick. Gary has been
a perennial 10% winning trainer for decades now. He\'s profited from some sales
of horses where he has acted as agent. Reading the article about his
retirement, it also seems as if he would welcome the opportunity to work on the
\"frontside\", in a racing office, and I am sure as always, there are plenty of
openings in the Stronach Organization. I do not know if Gary Contessa would
voluntarily come forward as a whistleblower. If anything, if he knew that some
dominoes were about to fall, Gary might have hung on to his license a bit
longer, thinking that he might be able to pick up some owners whose trainers
are headed for the penitentiary.

As to KMac, I first met him in 1983 when we were both grooming horses for Del
Carroll III at Churchill Downs. We actually lived in the same \"Manufactured
Housing Complex\" (aka \"trailer park\") near Standiford Airport. Not sure that
anyone has had the success as both a trainer and jock\'s agent (Chris Antley)
that Kiaran has. KMac is a Lexington kid who grew up loving the sport, but can
not be certain that he would come forward with information. I\'m thinking one of
the compounders/distributors or the mother/daughter smuggling/sales team
supplied the information that lead to the \"big fish\" (Servis/Navarro) getting caught in the net.

To me, most heinous is the fact that Servis/Navarro felt secure enough in their
teflon coating that they openly talked about PEDs on the phone. I guess they
never watched \"Goodfellas\"?

Servis/Navarro won plenty of races. Predicting that soon there will be
civil/criminal actions to \"claw back\" purse monies won by runners trained by
\"Servarro\" (if this endeavor is not undertaken by stewards at various tracks,
based on the aforementioned (prior post) retroactive testing of frozen
samples), and there will of course be the inevitable class action by
horseplayers who can document losses in races which were, for lack of a better
word, \"rigged\".
Title: Re: Handicapping Nuggets
Post by: mdh54165 on March 10, 2020, 09:14:24 AM
Would love to get some handicapping nuggets from all of this...

Assuming this has a chilling effect on the doping programs of other barns, which barns would likely improve relative to their historical performances?
Title: Re: Handicapping Nuggets
Post by: Socalman3 on March 10, 2020, 09:26:45 AM
One thing I would point out -- I would not only trace certain trainers for changes,.....but also some jurisdictions.......I think one aspect of horses for courses is that each \"course\" has different testing protocols...so you might have seen its numbers looking different from other places and if there are systematic changes in a jurisdiction its numbers overall may change.  Additionally, what somebody may have viewed as a horse for a course might no longer apply (regardless of the trainer) -- although admittedly there are multiple reasons a horse may prefer a course and some of them are not pharmaceutical.