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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: Caradoc on November 03, 2019, 10:42:10 AM

Title: Swan Song?
Post by: Caradoc on November 03, 2019, 10:42:10 AM
Regrettably, the fatality in the Classic yesterday may be the enduring memory and legacy of this year\'s BC.  If so, it may be the final nail in the coffin for racing, as outlined in the link below. If so, racing will have played a large role in its own demise, as it has done next to nothing to meaningfully address the growing public perception that racing is just an elaborate form of animal cruelty. If it isn\'t the final nail in the coffin, it might be the last wakeup call it gets.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/feinstein-racings-days-are-numbered-if-theres-an-equine-death-during-breeders-cup/
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: jma11473 on November 03, 2019, 11:04:32 AM
Do you mean just in California? I understand that this was the last thing anyone wanted (though you knew it would happen because it\'s the way things have gone at Santa Anita), but you expect all of horse racing and $12 billion a year in wagering to end because of this additional breakdown?
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: Caradoc on November 03, 2019, 11:55:13 AM
Just conveying Senator Feinstein\'s statements about her intentions if there was a breakdown during the BC.
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: bluechip21 on November 03, 2019, 01:07:01 PM
Here is to hoping TG sets up a Hong Kong office.
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: Boscar Obarra on November 03, 2019, 01:42:57 PM
First he has to wade through the rioters.
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: Al Caught Up on November 03, 2019, 02:59:37 PM
If I recall correctly, Dianne Feinstein was among the many who voted in favor of the disastrous resolution to go to war in Iraq in 2002.
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: vired on November 03, 2019, 06:50:27 PM
wtf?
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: jerry on November 04, 2019, 08:18:07 AM
Based on the best information available at that time.
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: Rich Curtis on November 04, 2019, 09:37:17 AM
\"Everything that could be done is being done to make it safer.\"

Johnny: The best thing you can do to save the sport is to quit \"defending\" it.
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: BitPlayer on November 04, 2019, 10:25:20 AM
Some observations about the incident:

The injury seemed to occur as Mongolian Groom was being hit with the whip (right-handed and not for the first time) and encouraged to change leads.

The trainer did not employ trainer-speak when talking to Jay Privman about the horse\'s last work.  He said it was slower than he wanted and that he had been concerned enough to have the horse scoped.

I wonder that the fatality rate is in the Breeders Cup.  On one hand one would think that the horses are so valuable that they have the advantage of every precaution, but it may also be that the increased level of competition increases the risk.

Nationally, a horse\'s chance of being fatally injured in a race is about 0.2%.  Even if Santa Anita cut that in half, with around 200 horses were competing on Friday and Saturday, the chance of at least one fatality was still about 18%.
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: JimP on November 04, 2019, 02:34:38 PM
How did you get to 18%?
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: BitPlayer on November 04, 2019, 02:44:24 PM
The probability of each horse coming home safely is 0.999. The probability of 200 horses all doing so is the product of all those probabilities: 0.999 to the 200th power, which is 0.819.   The probability of that not happening is 1 minus 0.819, which equals 0.181, or roughly 18%.
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: banditbeau on November 05, 2019, 06:55:14 AM
Bit - is it possible that the probability is even higher than you suggest?
Using a calculator of Binomial and Cumulative probabilities, and the occurrence rate mentioned:

Probability of a single trial = .002
Number of trials = 200
Number of undesired events, x = 1
Binomial probability = P (X=x), = .268
Cumulative probability = P (XCumulative probability = P (X=Cumulative probability = P (X>x) = .061
Cumulative probability = P (X>=x) = .329 or almost 33% chance of this event happening with the number of runners and the event rate of occurrence.

Is this possible?

BB
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: Marlin on November 05, 2019, 03:03:55 PM
Am I nuts here or is Mathcapper going to chime in here.

If the chances are 0.20 % then THAT probability remains constant NO matter how many horses (volume) .  Probability does not change based on volume, BUT incident count can change, not incident RATE.  

For example, flip a coin 1,000 times & it is still 50% probability of Heads.

200 Horses @ 0.20% probability is 0.40 horse incidents; less than ONE horse. NOT 18%
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: BitPlayer on November 05, 2019, 04:13:01 PM
BB -

Your calculations are right.  You used a fatality rate of 0.2%.  I assumed that Santa Anita had succeeded in cutting that rate in half, to 0.1%.
Title: Re: Swan Song?
Post by: BitPlayer on November 05, 2019, 04:27:08 PM
Marlin -

You are right that the expected number of fatalities would be 0.4.  Obviously, there is no such thing as 0.4 fatalities.  There have to be zero, one, two, etc. fatalities.  Each number of fatalities has a probability associated with it.  Based on my assumptions, the probability of zero fatalities was 82%.  Since all probabilities have to sum to 100%, the probability of a number of fatalities greater than zero was 18%.