why move the bc to churchill when the death per starts is higher than santa anita? 2.73 vs 2.04 per 1000 starts last year.
Or how about Belmont where those numbers were drastically different the last I read? \'The effectiveness of this approach is best reflected in the equine fatality rate at Belmont Park that was well below the national average of 1.68 deaths per 1,000 starters in 2018. At Belmont Park, there were six fatalities from 6,142 starters for a mark of .98 per 1,000 starters.\'
Santa Anita will start running again about a month before Breeders Cup. Given the current political environment in California and the likelihood that there will be at least one fatality during that month (not to mention any prior fatalities at Los Alamitos or Del Mar), how confident are you that Santa Anita will still be running on Breeders Cup weekend? Plans have to be made. Kentucky is a much safer bet.
All of us are reading everything printed about the horse deaths and Hollendorfer being banned at Santa Anita and Golden Gate. Anything I say can and will be criticized because there are many who want horse racing to permanently end -- others who just want the problems fixed (including me) and yes, even some who do not believe there is a problem.
What I do know after owning horses continuously since 1990 in Southern California -- the trainers know. They know when their horses are sound. They know when a horse \"has heat\" that requires vet inspection. They know when a horse is unsound. They know when a horse\'s attitude changes -- horse is angry, doesn\'t eat normally, has diarrhea -- they know everything.
In general, horses fracture because they are unsound. OK -- they were fracturing when there was ridiculous rain in LA and were running on sealed tracks -- that was a serious problem and I believe that practice is ending. They were also fracturing at Del Mar a few years ago when the turf course was replanted and racing began when there was not adequate grown grass and only water was used to try to soften the surface (shame on Del Mar).
The trainers need to learn to change their attitudes about working out and running unsound horses. The Stronach tracks also need to back off the pressure they place on trainers to fill races with a threat of losing stalls if they scratch a horse. I understand that practice has ended. The \"void claim\" rule should help along with independent vet exams but the trainers know the condition of their horses. The penalties need to be severe on the trainers who violate new rules in place (Hollendorfer) or our sport will end -- certainly in California.
On Thursday there is a scheduled meeting in New York to specifically discuss the BC location and should it move to Churchill. I predict they will leave it at Santa Anita. We will see.
i agree with what u posted. esp the racing office trying to fill races. i posed the question because the death rate at cd is higher than sa. that leads me to believe theres more to this than we know.
Strike-I believe the only conclusion any rational reader of your post can reach is that that California trainers ( or certain of them) are knowingly guilty of animal cruelty and the Stronach team are complicit in such guilt. I have zero quarrel with any of the conclusions you reach.If, as you state, “ the trainers know†and if, as you further state, “ Horses, fracture because they are unsound†there is no other conclusion to be reached. If you have such knowledge, is it not reasonable to assume that the Stronach group and their racing office have equal knowledge and nevertheless press trainers to run. If so, I would need access to a legal research vehicle to find the number of wrongs- regulatory and otherwise- the Stronach group is guilty of. ( and this in a jurisdiction that by all accounts is tough on drug use). I have read the same “ stuff†we have all read and have no idea what Belinda Stronach’s game plan is or whether she has her heart in the right place. However, based on the conclusions I reach from your own post, ( with which I have no quarrel), the Breeders cup folks would be nuts to run the BC at SA. The mere risk of a fatality with the history of this year is disqualifying from a rational business perspective.
I just got back from the Epsom Derby Festival -- only 2 days of racing. I also went to the Royal Ascot Festival -- only 5 days of racing. Our American racing is year round. I predict in 20 years our racing (if it still exists) will be much different.
For instance the cost to train and care for a horse in Southern California is ~$3,500 per month. That training bill is the same for a $10,000 claimer and a Grade 1 horse. The economics of the game are challenging for owners/trainers of horses that run for a low claiming tag. You basically need to win or maybe run second to pay the monthly bill if they run every month or 12 times a year.
Now, imagine your $10,000 claimer gets injured and stays in the barn (the wrong move). The financial reality crushes the owner. Send the horse to a farm (the right move) the costs are a lot smaller but still... . American horse racing needs to change and have much more compassion. From everyone -- owners, track operators, and especially from trainers. If you are in it to make money -- don\'t do it. Buy a boat or a set of golf clubs. I am hooked -- have been fortunate to have had some important horses along the way -- I don\'t play the low claiming game for the reason I mentioned. Just my view.
vired Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i agree with what u posted. esp the racing office
> trying to fill races. i posed the question because
> the death rate at cd is higher than sa. that leads
> me to believe theres more to this than we know.
As a horse player I\'m by nature somewhat speculative. I\'ve been contemplating Vired\'s notion that there must be something more to this?
What could Jerry Hollendorfer have done to warrant the retribution he was handed. Geez you\'d think he\'s a serial killer. But what does make sense?
Hollendorfer knows more than Stronach. Maybe not. Maybe Belinda knows more about equine health than Jerry. Maybe Ms. Stronach knows more about horse racing than Mr. Hollendorfer.
For my two cents, HOF horseman told trust fund baby that she didn\'t know sheet from shinola. So she did her best to fire him!
And, I have absolutely no quarrel with what you say. You reference \"rational business perspective.\" Unfortunately, that is lacking in the sport of horse racing. I guarantee you that Belinda and the Stronach Group executives know a lot more than I do. There is so little transparency. I was able to find a list of the names of the first 20 or so horses that died and most were homebreds -- low level claimers -- low level trainers. And, also Jerry. The common thread is they fracture. Not soft tissue damage -- tendons, ligaments. Fracture. How in the world does a horse fracture while jogging? Things really need to change.
Agreed. The rational business decision is to hold the BC elsewhere. There are bound to be fatalities during the autumn meet, And god forbid if anyone breaks down during the BC. That said, the industry isn’t known for making rational business decisions and who knows how politics will come in to play. If they do move it, it will be interesting to see how they handle the logistics - a lot of loyal fans have made arrangements to be in California the first weekend in November. Glad I haven’t pulled the trigger on the plane tickets yet.
i have from very reliable sources info that jerry h.worked a horse without permission and broked down. i really like jerry h but if he did\'nt follow the rules then where are we? don\'t care where the bc is held. just scared that our great game is in big trouble
One of the lead stories on the BC telecasts will be about the breakdowns at SA.
Both days, repeated on national TV. Allowing SA to be the backdrop to that coverage, while running the BC races there, is sheer lunacy.
The backdrop should be tractors and other large machines, tearing up the SA racing surface!!
The public needs to see that something is being done to address the problem.
Who are these decision makers that don’t see this??
If they decide to keep the BC at SA and a horse breaks down..............
\"What I do know after owning horses continuously since 1990 in Southern California -- the trainers know. They know when their horses are sound. They know when a horse \"has heat\" that requires vet inspection. They know when a horse is unsound. They know when a horse\'s attitude changes -- horse is angry, doesn\'t eat normally, has diarrhea -- they know everything.\"
Go to Equibase and read through a complete day of result charts. In particular, be sure to read the chart comment for the last-place finisher in each race.
If trainers know everything, this sport should be banned instantly.
Interesting post. I think any serious discussion of improving equine safety and welfare has to focus eventually on economics. The claiming game seems like it is essentially a game of hot potato. Take the case of Kochees, who was claimed by Hollendorfer and eventually broke down while racing at Santa Anita. A CNN article featured the following from the prior owner of Kochees:
Herbertson says he was about to give the 8-year-old horse -- a veteran in racing terms -- a break but decided to enter him in the claiming race in November. \"He definitely had some nicks and needed time off,\" Herbertson told CNN.
What the article does not mention is that Herbertson entered Kochees for $25K after racing him for 62.5K and 32K in his prior three races. Sounds to me like he was trying to rid himself of the hot potato. Hollendorfer bit.
Less attention-grabbing than the issue of on-track fatalities is the issue of after care. What happens to all the horses who don\'t break down, but simply bow a tendon or cannot withstand the rigors of training? It would be nice to think that they all find other occupations or at least a healthy farm life, but I doubt that is the case.
It seems to me that there needs to be a secure outlet for horses that have reached the end of their racing days, so that the last owner is not faced with either being stuck with a hot potato or taking steps that put the horse in jeopardy. Perhaps there needs to be a requirement that thoroughbreds have the equivalent of prepaid long-term care insurance in order to be registered. Putting this cost at the beginning of a horse\'s life rather than at the end would have the direct or indirect effect of shifting some of the burden to breeders and pinhookers, who I assume are actually profiting from the game. It would also probably have the effect of reducing the foal crop and, indirectly, the number of races that are run, which I think is inevitable.
Rich Curtis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> \"What I do know after owning horses continuously
> since 1990 in Southern California -- the trainers
> know. They know when their horses are sound. They
> know when a horse \"has heat\" that requires vet
> inspection. They know when a horse is unsound.
> They know when a horse\'s attitude changes -- horse
> is angry, doesn\'t eat normally, has diarrhea --
> they know everything.\"
>
> Go to Equibase and read through a complete day of
> result charts. In particular, be sure to read the
> chart comment for the last-place finisher in each
> race.
>
> If trainers know everything, this sport should be
> banned instantly.
Well, I stand by what I said. Horse racing has been around a very long time. Change is difficult. The NFL made a dramatic turn in the right direction when they acknowledged the damage to players that concussions were causing. The league enacted many changes that possibly saved the sport. I wish there was one national authority to rule the sport of horse racing but there is not. It is up to the track owners and horse trainers and owners and vets and even legislators to enact the required changes to save this sport. For instance ban drugs that mask pain.
Do a little googling around about Dr Sue Stover -- veterinary doctor and PHD. She says the following -- \"Dr. Sue Stover, a professor and veterinarian from UC Davis, says that more than 85% of horses that break down on the track had a pre-existing issue that was exacerbated.\" (She is a badass authority on catastrophic breakdowns). Maybe more effort should be placed on examining the condition of a horse coming off a years\' layoff and dropping to the bottom level. If a horse is on the vets list maybe the horse needs to be examined closely before it works out (not just when it is entered in a race). Pretty common-sense stuff.
I hope I don\'t come off as speaking from a soapbox. That is not my intent. Horse racing has been part of my life for almost 30 years and is in my blood. In my opinion our eyes must be wide open. Now is the time to enact change.
\"The NFL made a dramatic turn in the right direction when they acknowledged the damage to players that concussions were causing.\"
The NFL does the right thing only after it has exhausted the alternatives. Then it demands credit and expects people not to laugh. Take a look at the Steelers\' offensive line in the mid-1970s. You\'ve got these guys (Clack, Kolb, Webster) bench pressing over 500 pounds and they aren\'t even weightlifters. They are football players whose bodies get beaten to a pulp. This was at the same time that the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary Pumping Iron came out. The book of the same name discusses steroids in detail. Any idiot could see what was going on there. And it is still going on in the NFL today--in modified form. Anybody who doubts this should Google the \"drug-tested\" 1990 Mr Olympia contest and watch a Youtube video of these \"clean\" athletes.
\"I wish there was one national authority to rule the sport of horse racing\"
What if the \"one national authority\" sucks?
\"Dr. Sue Stover, a professor and veterinarian from UC Davis, says that more than 85% of horses that break down on the track had a pre-existing issue that was exacerbated.\"
What percentage of horses who did not break down on the track had pre-existing issues?
\"I hope I don\'t come off as speaking from a soapbox.\"
Not in the least. I appreciate your post. My point is that anybody who looks at a day\'s worth of results will see performances from a lot of horses whose trainers have precisely one excuse: They did NOT know everything.
And finally: Some trainers are extremely smart and caring. They are great people. And some trainers are scumbags. And some trainers are idiots. In total, when trainers start to talk about their horses before a race, all of my instincts are to run away. As a group, what these guys know is much closer to nothing than to everything.
This should end the debate of why?
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/bill-unanimously-approved-to-grant-chrb-authority-to-suspend-racing/
More good news......
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/26/sports/santa-anita-horse-deaths.html
The Drape article is so typical of horse racing coverage. Much innuendo and wimping out when they have a chance to identify the cheaters. Why the F would he not identify the trainer of Tick Tock. I just did a bit of research on Equibase and it is a guy named Andrew Lerner who has been winning at a 33% rate this year almost exclusively in claiming and starter allowance races. Must be the shoes!
and before that the infamous William Morey! and so it goes.
and finally- Lerner learned his†trade†from Mike Pender- who was ordered off grounds by SA.
rezlegal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and before that the infamous William Morey! and so
> it goes.
\"The California Horse Racing Board on Tuesday filed a complaint against trainer William Morey alleging violation of CHRB Rules 1843.5 (i) and 1629 pursuant to Rule 1887.
The complaint further alleges that Morey\'s assistant trainer administered a substance containing an alkalinizing agent via a dose syringe to two horses that were entered to race at Santa Anita Park that same day, March 29, 2019.
Alkalinizing agents can raise the TCO2 levels of horses, which may reduce lactic acid buildup and prevent muscle fatigue.
March 29 was the first day of racing at Santa Anita since March 3 after track officials ordered a self-imposed hiatus due to a spike in equine fatalities during racing and training since the meet\'s opening day on Dec. 26..\"
At least this is a start. Unbelievable that his barn would do such a stupid thing the very first day back after the track was closed.
rezlegal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and finally- Lerner learned his†trade†from
> Mike Pender- who was ordered off grounds by SA.
On June 3, 2019, the board of stewards at Santa Anita Park suspended trainer Michael Pender for 30 days for violation of two of its rules: #1887 Re: Trainer to Insure Condition of Horse and #1902.5 Re: Animal Welfare.
The administrative action stems from a complaint filed by the California Horse Racing Board (CHRB) on April 11, 2019, alleging the following:
“Trainer Pender knowingly worked a horse “New Karma†after a veterinarian examination disclosed a fracture in the horse’s left front leg. The horse was shipped to Golden Gate Fields where it was entered to race but subsequently scratched due to its injury.â€
My final post on this matter. Racing has to weed these guys out. They are not representative of anything any of us wants. One-by-one they must go. Unfortunately this has been going on for a long time -- but by only a few. (My trainer scratched one of my horses because \"his coat wasn\'t bright enough but be is perfectly sound.\" That is what I want to be around).
PETA wants horse racing abolished. In pursuing that goal, their biggest mistake is in continuing to focus so much on horse deaths. That opens them up to too much statistical randomness, which will kill their momentum. Instead, they should focus on the cruelty of horses racing with nagging injuries. They should demand that horses be in perfect condition before they are allowed to race.
Santa Anita\'s biggest mistake is in failing to broaden the discussion into the horrific treatment of animals across the board. In addition to being the right thing to do, this would allow them to make the people who are attacking the sport look like what they are: grandstanding hypocrites who ignore the atrocities that are all around them and instead focus on one high-profile grain of sand. Don\'t let your enemies score their \"I care about animals\" points on the cheap. If you\'re going to go down, go down in a noble cause and take a few billion people with you.
https://abc7.com/amp/sports/newsom-signs-law-that-would-allow-suspension-of-santa-anitas-horse-racing-license/5366377/
Three friends and I have been planning a trip to The BC in Arcadia and then a little beach time down the coast into the opening of The Bing Meet the following Friday. Unfortunately, with this news, it seems like they have to move to CD. A lot can go wrong in five weeks at SA prior to November. 11 days in Louisville just doesn’t have the same appeal. Although, I’m sure the Ohio River views will be quite the bargain compared to La Jolla. Whatever the decision is, I hope it’s soon after the meeting.
Staying at Santa Anita
100% correct move
What were Fairmont1 odds again?
I’m with you. Surprised but happy. Still scary.
Below is what I originally posted. If I could wager I would place a small wager on \"No BC\" at 3-1. If the law described in the article posted by FrankD is effective immediately allowing the immediate suspension of racing, tell me what happens when two horses go down out there on the Thursday before BC....
Racing continues to make beyond baffling decisions to my eye. I have heard and read all the arguments on both sides and don\'t need them recounted here. I truly hope nothing happens and it all goes off without a hitch. But I\'m truly concerned about the days and weeks leading to the BC out there when SA opens again as well as beyond worried about the days of the event damaging the game beyond what it already has endured this year.
As Joe B says, \"Good Luck\" to the BC on this one. If something happens, the blood is on THEIR Hands if something goes wrong....
_______________________
Santa Anita, 8-5
Churchill, 3-5
No BC in 2019, 3-1
For Johnny and Albatross:
If you want the BC to be run at Santa Anita this fall, you have a vested interest
in every race run in California between now and the end of October. You want them
all to come home safely, each and every race at Del Mar at SA and even at the
fairs.
In my OPINION, an awful decision by the BC people. An irresponsible decision, but
I have not read all the material yet and maybe CD was not interested in hosting?
For Johnny:
Your voice was heard. The late NYRA Pick 5 is open to all players beginning on
July 3.
\"Good Luck\" to the BC on this one. If something happens, the blood is on THEIR Hands if something goes wrong....\"
This seems like a pretty narrow way to do \"blood on their hands\" math in horse racing.
Why should it of been Moved?
I look at it as a really bad string of bad luck. Much like a gambler has.
Sorry if this sounds cold but in my world I have seen and witnessed enough to realize shit happens.
I also realize there have been NO answers to any questions that have been asked to the how and why.
A group of extremists had a temper tantrum, media got hold of it, the heart strings of America was being pulled and then everyone’s hero the government got involved.
New rules were put in place to make things safer and then.
The cherry on top a hall of fame trainer gets expelled after following the new rules they implemented.
If the BCC was to relocate it the reason was not because of the bad luck.
It’s because of the nonsense going on out there.
I believe a bunch of rational people got together and made a rational decision
I hate to see any breakdown of any animal I’m a animal lover like the next guy, I also understand the dark side that occasional rears it’s ugly head.
If the BCC would of been relocated that would of been PETA version of a wet dream.
That’s funny Richie regard NYRA listening
I can only answer one aspect of the above.
Focus. It was a bad decision by the Breeders Cup folks because the decision as to whether their event will be held has been to an extent taken out of their hands. No extremists, no politics, no conspiracy theories, and certainly none of the &$@!?! that you’ve seen happen in your life has much to do with it being, my opinion, a bad business decision.
IF they relocated and a breakdown happened at CD then what?
As a whole the business is in trouble.
Kentucky is a very Racing friendly place, to understate things. There is no provision that I’ve heard of in the Commonwealth of Kentucky which would allow a politician or a court to pull the plug on Racing.
The Racing business has been in trouble for a while, and shame on Racing for letting it get to the point where, like the BC people, they’ve lost to a degree control of their own destiny.
But Belinda says all is well
https://www.santaanita.com/press-releases/belinda-stronach-reacts-to-affirmation-of-support-as-2019-breeders-cup-world-championships-remain-at-santa-anita-park-nov-1-2/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=santaanitapark&utm_term=2744ca1f-96b8-4aa6-abcf-568fd5ca2130&utm_campaign=#.XRVuuIopCf1
If you are on a really bad string of luck, is it a good idea to keep pressing and pushing the envelope? That\'s what the BC is doing.
The government can now SHUT IT DOWN in an instant if there is a safety concern in California. One bad incident in October or two and let\'s see how this goes. I don\'t want to see it but I\'m concerned. And as Richiebee noted, don\'t ignore if there are problems at Del Mar.
Like it or not, 30 horses have perished out there.
I\'m all for the changes on the medication front as they have made but I don\'t trust the surface. And how do the medication rules play out now? Do BC entrants only get 5cc of Lasix on race day and NO anti-inflammatories? Not sure I\'ve seen the answer to this one. Curious if it affects some of the superstar trainers.
If nothing else, this will be interesting. We will find out if the BC chose poorly....or if they have chosen wisely.
Mr. Bee. I couldn’t agree with you more. A terrible business decision. I’m not schooled on the new CHRB ruling just signed by the governor. I know about the 10 days being brought to more like hours. If, by some horrible accident, the weekend prior to the BC, what can be done by the CHRB to close the track. I believe there are 4 or 5 members on the board. Let’s say 3 vote to close. Is that it? If that is even close to possible, it’s a bet the board shouldn’t make. Full disclosure. I believe that the terrible number of breakdowns was due to the rain and cool temps they haven’t seen in decades. Still, a bad bet. We shall see.
You nailed it. The risk is that the venue gets pulled out from under the BC at the last minute. With the way things have been going in California lately that is a real possibility. The first breakdown at SA will bring intense political pressure to close the track again. What will the BC board do? Postpone the BC? Cancel it outright for 2019? They have taken on a huge risk by staying at SA.
\"Do BC entrants only get 5cc of Lasix on race day and NO anti-inflammatories? Not sure I\'ve seen the answer to this one.\"
House rules, according to today\'s LA Times.
The Breeders\' Cup was a terrible idea from the beginning. It tracks almost perfectly with the decline of horse racing. Its very name reeks of fealty to sinister forces. A powerful case can be made for boycotting the damned thing even in the very best of circumstances. If one or two days of horse racing can be such a big deal, horse racing is a deal so small it is hardly worth discussing anyway.
Does anyone know if Hollendorfer will be able to run horses in the BC?
https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/21-people-for-the-ethical-treatment-of-animals/
Friendly wager:
BC held in 2019, you donate $100 to a charity I choose.
BC not held in 2019, I donate $300 to a charity you choose.
No religion, politics nor pets!
Deal?
Can we just enjoy a event that brings us all together?
Your just giving these PETA extremists a bigger voice.
Johnny:
If you had any sense of Horse Racing beyond yesterday’s results and tomorrow’s entries, you would realize PETA, no matter what you think of them (I don’t pay much attention to them at all, as the hunk of London broil marinating in the kitchen would tell you), have done more to bring about change in Racing in the last 6 months than Farish, Phipps, Janney, JB and the Jockey Club have done in decades. Timmy and Belinda would never have gone on their crusade unless there were 30 fatalities, and the pressure they faced,PARTIALLY due to PETA and that group’s ability to manipulate social and mainstream media.
Cruelty to animals will be scrutinized closely, and if Racing’s foes are able to convince the mainstream that Horse Racing is cruel, game over, grab the golf clubs, take up bocce, or bet the races in a country where the sport/business has been managed better than here.
I honestly do not want to wager against the BC happening (not b/c I don\'t believe it is a real possibility but rather b/c I do not seek to bet on something that would be damaging for horse racing).
However, in the vein of a friendly wager for charity centered around a successful Breeders Cup at SA, I will make a counteroffer.
The week of the BC, after entries are drawn, we each pick a contender in the BC Classic and bet $100 head to head for a charitable purpose. The person with the pick that finishes ahead of the other chooses the charity of choice for the other to donate $100 to before the end of the calendar year. If a Dead Heat, we both donate.
Deal?
Alex\'s Lemonade Stand Foundation Fighting Childhood Cancer is my charity of choice should I win the wager.
_____________________
If you go to live racing, I would be happy to discuss further with you. I\'ll be at Saratoga for Whitney weekend, Kentucky Downs for the Saturday after Labor Day, and at Keeneland opening Saturday. Let me know if you will be at any of these as they draw closer.
kencbs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know if Hollendorfer will be able to
> run horses in the BC?
From the Louisville Courier Journal newspaper --
\"The Stronach Group, which owns Santa Anita Park, on Saturday forced Hall of Fame trainer Jerry Hollendorfer to vacate his stalls at the track after a fourth horse of his died at the track this year. It’s uncertain whether Hollendorfer will be allowed to compete at the track during the Breeders’ Cup.\"
Whatever is going to happen will happen regardless of our bet and if the BC doesn\'t happen, you will at least have enriched a charity by $300! As far as your counteroffer, I honestly can\'t do a head to head - \"sadly\" I\'m on a cruise from Oct 17 - Nov 10:
https://www.vacationstogo.com/fastdeal.cfm?deal=14769
so won\'t be doing anything with the races unless they can miraculously bring up live racing on those two days at sea.
Let me know if you change your mind; I do understand your concern and as 3-1 is your fair price, no overlay you need to jump at!
Maybe next year on the head to head with a change (maybe more; plenty of time and open to suggestions:) We each pick one horse for the two days (best bet) and the one whose horse pays more on an across the board bet wins. If both horses bring zero, costs us each $100 to charity. And if others want to get in, could be interesting/fun.
By the way, I booked the cruise as the BC became less likely (just kidding!)
Good luck this year; obviously I think you\'ll have races to bet on.
Richiebee
#1) How do you know what I have a sense off?
#2) I do have enough sense to realize PETA has a agenda and that is to get rid of the sport. As a politician once said never let a good crises go to waste.
#3) I also have enough sense to realize the majority of the changes that were made had nothing to do with facts,but based on pure emotional response.
4) All this being done at a facility that is owned by a family suing each other
#5) That is in a state that is In shambles.
Either way Richie it’s being held at Santa Anita and lets all hope for the best.
\"That is in a state that is In shambles.\"
No problem. CA should just take its budget surplus and buy Kentucky.
I like your idea of prepaid long term insurance. It will weed out some of those fringe players who have to race unsound horses just to stay in the game.
Eliminate pain masking medications and race day anti-inflammatories. If the horse is hurt, don’t race him. If you can’t afford to keep him in the barn, sell him. If the horse can’t race without them, retire him. Plus, it’ll cull some of the more unsound bloodlines from the breeding shed.
If this has the effect of shrinking the game, good. The industry needs a healthy pruning.
\"If the horse is hurt, don’t race him. If you can’t afford to keep him in the barn, sell him. If the horse can’t race without them, retire him.\"
This will either help or not help.
If it does not help, the sport will be banned.
If it does help, the sport deserved to be banned years ago.
What we are on here is a slow-motion, metaphorical and literal death march. The logic doesn\'t add up. The rhetoric doesn\'t add up. The numbers don\'t add up. The entire sport is guilty as hell, and I am one more JohnnyM post away from joining PETA myself.
Long-term, the only way I can see out of this Devil\'s math is to find a way to broaden the discussion of animals until the entire society has been shamed to the core and is sitting next to horse racing in the dock. Then horse racing will look anodyne by comparison. Then it might get a second chance, which, of course, it will fu## up.
Awfully bleak picture, Rich, but can’t say I disagree. Regardless of death count at a particular track over a specific period, its going to be hard to overcome the underlying cruelty of the sport in the long run. The Fox viewers will call it the “snow flake†culture, but the reality is times are changing and that will continue to expand to animals, and not just the PETA nuts, but broader segments of society.
The sport works just fine in Europe and Australia. You can argue that it’s more culturally integrated in those places. I would argue that it has been better managed. I think we’ve just let the abuse in this sport go unchecked for so long that the cultural backlash was inevitable. When the trainer of a race horse who has broken down in a race and has been euthanized, goes into the room where the horse’s dead body is being held and proceeds to saw the broken leg off of the horse and make off with it, it’s hard to rally around the sport. It’s filthy. And the track owner’s know it. They just don’t give a shit. So long as the wagers are pouring through the windows and they’re getting their cut they’ll let you run a horse on three legs. The damage to this sport in this country was completely self inflicted.
I hope that everybody interested in this subject will find a way to read the lifetime past performances of Kochees: slowly, from the bottom up, and in the context of the situation at SA.
Rich Curtis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope that everybody interested in this subject
> will find a way to read the lifetime past
> performances of Kochees: slowly, from the bottom
> up, and in the context of the situation at SA.
Really sad. He was a hard-knocker. 1 year off -- then 2 years off -- then another year off. A few races in between the layoffs while he was dropped in price. Then he fractured. No sympathy from me on whatever happens to the connections. Good riddance.
7.1 hit SoCal tonight. 99.99% chance that does not happen in Louisville.
https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/san-francisco-giants-oakland-athletics-world-series-earthquake-bay-area-candlestick-park-101715
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P-Dub Wrote:
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Thanks for the reminder guys.
Lol what? Earthquakes? On this thread? What’s that have to do with anything? There is also a 99.99% chance a wild fire doesn’t rip through Churchill that weekend. I seriously hope this is not how you approach the races.
This thread asked the question why would they want to move the Breeder\'s Cup from Santa Anita to Churchill. Considering that the place where Santa Anita is has experienced 2 earthquakes & multiple aftershocks, it\'s a lot more valid answer than your question of what earthquakes have to do with anything. Time to get out from under your rock & turn the news on once in a while.
toppled Wrote:
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> This thread asked the question why would they want
> to move the Breeder\'s Cup from Santa Anita to
> Churchill. Considering that the place where Santa
> Anita is has experienced 2 earthquakes & multiple
> aftershocks, it\'s a lot more valid answer than
> your question of what earthquakes have to do with
> anything. Time to get out from under your rock &
> turn the news on once in a while.
You\'re serious??
Did you suggest moving the Breeders\' Cup from Belmont Park, NY had 2 airplanes fly into the WTC. Wouldn\'t want planes crashing into the grandstand, right?? Or were you under a rock at the time.