So I have personally heard two trainers in the last two months (both are ones everyone on here would know that race at top tracks) that have said that he is a cheater. One said it after Fla Derby and the other said it after the Derby yesterday. SC alluded to a procedure he is using and others know about. That\'s all great and wonderful I guess even though it seems like some vague info. Regardless, he continues to win at amazing percentages.
If this is the case that other trainers are THIS upset (some posting veiled comments on twitter even these days), how come the trainers won\'t boycott all the races he enters? Ie, if he enters a horse in this race, we ALL refuse to race against him and you (the racetrack) will have ZERO gambling dollars bet on your race????
I find it amusing that many of these other trainers are railing against him and others to gamblers and owners but they don\'t want to police themselves. If trainers feel that confident about it, do something about it. Complain to the whole world, complain to the tracks, demand surveillance, enhanced testing, etc etc etc Don\'t complain to me the gambler. There are many trainers at many tracks right now that fit a similar profile (although he is king right now it seems) and no one can do a thing about it?????
Brilliant!! (to steal a line from an ex-poster)
In a civilized society,
Criminals hang with criminals, while they may specialize in a specific crime, it doesn\'t exclude extortion, fraud, violence, intimidation.
It\'s dangerous to be a whistle blower, I saw the China Syndrome!
I dont have a lot of time to get into this. It\'s late I\'m tired and since I was called out I feel compelled to elaborate. There are some who think he is using a tissue repair treatment that I\'ve had described twice and still dont understand. It\'s not steroids it\'s not stem cells and it sounds like some of both. Slim Shadey was 10 for Servis and still running effectively at $75K claiming level. He is ahead of the curve and therefore has an edge. Everyone assumes the win off the claim is juice. Based on what was described it\'s not. Horses who are hurting are getting healed more quickly
Trackjohn and I were down for the Florida Derby, that Thursday it rained so we sat at the 10 Palms bar instead of my Corona Beach House headquarters. A couple gentlemen sat next to us and we got into some general racing conversation. He saw that I was looking at TG, knew of it obviously and asked a lot of questions. Hopefully he is a TG customer now?
One is a longtime Woodbine trainer, the other a prominent owner/breeder with about 300 horses. Our conversation quickly turned to Norman McNight and the following rolled off the trainers tongue in a minute. He told me to google
W-18. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W-18
Flat out, without hesitation he said this is what McNight uses and everyone knows it. The owner chimed in that McNight took a horse from him for 10k. The horse had a knee so bad that even a strenuous work out caused the knee to blow up like a grapefruit. After a lengthy turnout they got the horse to races and threw him in for 10k. McKnight took the horse to Oaklawn a month later and won by open lengths in a 32k claimer. He dropped him in for 10 less than 2 weeks later, wins again and gets claimed. That was in February and the horse has not been entered since.
This goes on in some form or fashion at every track with the usual list of suspects. In the era of 20,000 or less foals per year track management turns a blind eye to this daily. A lot of these guys have big stables and fill the entry box. It’s all about field size = handle.
Why the clean trainers do nothing and lose purse money as well as horses to these guys is certainly beyond me?
The saddest part of that story is that the \"good guys\" are the ones who realized they had a horse with a bum knee, but got him good enough for one run in a $10k claimer so that they could make him someone else\'s problem.
Paragons of virtue indeed.
All the juice comes from Canada. Lot of chemists there working constantly on undetectable performance enhancers.
The reason they do not self police is that most of them are working in the gray areas trying to get an edge. Has been like that for a while.
So my question is this.
I played sports, I took anti inflammatory Advil etc..
If I can take a product that helps with muscle soreness is that a performance enhancing product?
Now steroids HCG I totally get.
But a product that May be the equivalent to an aspirin?
I don\'t post alot on this board but feel that I have to after that last post... SIMILAR TO ASPIRIN??
This drug is similar to Oxycontin and Fentenal...most racing venues are NOT checking for it...it had also been banned for human use everywhere.
In our conversations with these gentleman they were upset... they obviously care for their horses...as Frank mentioned the owner is one (if not) of the largest breeders in Canada... they only want the playing field to be level...
Until there is a NATIONAL effort to legislate mandatory OUT OF COMPETITION TESTING the juice guys (and most all of us on this board suspect/know who they are) will continue to have the advantage.
John
Much respect John
But this is straight from Franks link.
W-18 was commonly reported to be an opioid in the popular press in the 2010s, which was later revealed not to be correct.[7][8][9]W-18 was found to obtain weak activity at both sigma receptors and the translocator protein (peripheral benzodiazepine receptor).[9] It also inhibits hERG binding, an important antitarget in drug discovery, which possibly causes cardiovascular side-effects.[9]
The two drugs listed above are opioids no doubt.
Yes I agree with a level playing field.
Agree with ajkreider. Stories like that are good ammunition for the ban-racing movement. The “good†guys entered a cripple for a $10K tag. The “bad†guys entered the same cripple for a $32K tag. I think the opponents of racing will focus on the constant in that story and won’t make the subtle distinction between “good†and “bad†that is made by the fans of racing.
Deadly Potency: W-18 is 100 times stronger than fentanyl. Fentanyl is 100 times stronger than morphine. This makes W-18 10,000 times stronger than classic opiates.
https://drugabuse.com/9-mind-blowing-facts-about-w-18/
We can play this game all day..
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkroll/2016/07/28/w-18-is-not-a-super-potent-designer-opioid-as-originally-believed/#62e30af26333
FrankD. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trackjohn and I were down for the Florida Derby,
> that Thursday it rained so we sat at the 10 Palms
> bar instead of my Corona Beach House headquarters.
> A couple gentlemen sat next to us and we got into
> some general racing conversation. He saw that I
> was looking at TG, knew of it obviously and asked
> a lot of questions. Hopefully he is a TG customer
> now?
>
> One is a longtime Woodbine trainer, the other a
> prominent owner/breeder with about 300 horses. Our
> conversation quickly turned to Norman McNight and
> the following rolled off the trainers tongue in a
> minute. He told me to google
> W-18. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W-18
Frank this is a Schedule 1 in Canada and that is pretty lethal. What I was described and told this is not it. Not close. This is a healing agent for soft tissue and soreness and inflammation. Horses with issues come back more quickly. Horse rebound from races more quickly. AND more fully. And that is the key.
Chad ran two one plus year layoff runners last week, Bricks and the allowance horse on Thursday and its like yawn...But this is something that would work there after the injury.
BTW I got a late message on Thursday that Kennys horse in the Oaks was not doing well. Made another call Friday morning and was told it was not reliable, unconfirmed. Same thing a year ago when I was a received a text that he may be up to something in the first. At 10:20 AM with post time in 10 minutes while I\'m in the donut shop drive thru. I later learned that came from a friend of a friend of a friend. Damned if you do damned if you don\'t. Sooooooo be good my friend.
LOL,
I thought all of us middle aged 🤫 men gave up donuts, not by choice, Long Ago....
For all who don’t know what a schedule 1 drug is
SCHEDULE 1 (CLASS I) DRUGS are illegal because they have high abuse potential, no medical use, and severe safety concerns; for example, narcotics such as Heroin, LSD, and cocaine. Marijuana is also included as a Class 1 drug despite it being legal in some states and it being used as a medicinal drug in some states.
https://www.dea.gov/drug-scheduling
Now being a vet and knowing how weed is helping my vet buddies this schedule has to be taken with a grain of salt.
You must be able to have some critical thinking
I just had surgery on my arm, prescription was an opioid. I’m told I can’t drive while taking it as it affects my judgement and slows my reaction time. Taking that to horses. How does it make a horse run faster while taking the drug? Stopping pain, I get that, but your still got a slower metabolism. M18 a new one on me. I couldn’t play ball or golf on this stuff.
NCT