If the trainer is Baffert does the DQ happen?
I don’t know about Baffert, but taking that horse down was a travesty.
nope
and if its Mott it don\'t happen either
saw the headline on one site read Country House awarded the Kentucky Derby.
fantastic headline because they did not win that race. He ran his eyeball out and was spectacular but they in no way won that race, it was handed to them.
I am sure the money that comes along with winning a Derby is nice but if I am Bill Mott I am pretty embarrassed if that is my Derby \"win\", that is for sure.
I could argue today\'s call either way, but taking Mott down for Servis is, indeed, exceedingly hard to envision.
I thought Mott embarrassed himself during the Objection review. He plummeted in esteem here. Ridiculous
dcost328 Wrote:
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> saw the headline on one site read Country House
> awarded the Kentucky Derby.
>
> fantastic headline because they did not win that
> race. He ran his eyeball out and was spectacular
> but they in no way won that race, it was handed to
> them.
>
> I am sure the money that comes along with winning
> a Derby is nice but if I am Bill Mott I am pretty
> embarrassed if that is my Derby \"win\", that is for
> sure.
Embarrassed himself by stating the truth?
That\'s a 45 second DQ in every other race you\'ll watch this year. That\'s probably the 3rd or 4th most obvious DQ I\'ve seen this year so far.
Comical that any objective person would think otherwise.
T Severini Wrote:
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> I thought Mott embarrassed himself during the
> Objection review. He plummeted in esteem here.
> Ridiculous
>
> dcost328 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > saw the headline on one site read Country House
> > awarded the Kentucky Derby.
> >
> > fantastic headline because they did not win
> that
> > race. He ran his eyeball out and was
> spectacular
> > but they in no way won that race, it was handed
> to
> > them.
> >
> > I am sure the money that comes along with
> winning
> > a Derby is nice but if I am Bill Mott I am
> pretty
> > embarrassed if that is my Derby \"win\", that is
> for
> > sure.
I respect your opinions highly Sekrah and used the #20 because of you, but how can you say this is so obvious when we wouldn\'t even be talking about this right now had the #20 (who wasn\'t even impeded) didn\'t take a shot and claim foul?
There was no claim from WOW or a stewards inquiry, so I really struggle with the take that it was a 45 second no brainer decision.
I don\'t know who you are.
sekrah Wrote:
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> Embarrassed himself by stating the truth?
>
> That\'s a 45 second DQ in every other race you\'ll
> watch this year. That\'s probably the 3rd or 4th
> most obvious DQ I\'ve seen this year so far.
>
> Comical that any objective person would think
> otherwise.
>
>
>
> T Severini Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I thought Mott embarrassed himself during the
> > Objection review. He plummeted in esteem here.
> > Ridiculous
> >
> > dcost328 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > saw the headline on one site read Country
> House
> > > awarded the Kentucky Derby.
> > >
> > > fantastic headline because they did not win
> > that
> > > race. He ran his eyeball out and was
> > spectacular
> > > but they in no way won that race, it was
> handed
> > to
> > > them.
> > >
> > > I am sure the money that comes along with
> > winning
> > > a Derby is nice but if I am Bill Mott I am
> > pretty
> > > embarrassed if that is my Derby \"win\", that
> is
> > for
> > > sure.
Who filed the claim is irrelevant to me.
When you blow the turn by 3 lanes and nearly bring down multiple horses on your outside who have momentum, it\'s a foul.
The stewards should have called for an inquiry, they must have missed it live. Gaffalione had an obligation to his connections to file an objection. It\'s a bad mark on him because his horse was just stopped after it was kicked twice in the leg by an out of control competitor when WoW had a real chance to win the race.
Perhaps the big moment of it being the Derby had everyone drawing blank and not thinking clearly..
Ugly way to end the premier race, but if you\'re not going to call that then hardly anything is a foul.
people on the this board say it was a obvious fowl,stewards didnt think so
stewards must have it?????????????????
but you saw it,lol
philywheel Wrote:
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> stewards must have it?????????????????
> but you saw it,lol
I didn\'t notice it live either. I was watching my horses. That\'s their job though, they blew it not calling for the objection. But they got it right in the end.
The video replay evidence showed a foul.
nah, bayern in the Breeders cup was the wrong call,this was horrific
The stewards and Gaffalione weren’t drawing blanks. It’s the Kentucky Derby. You don’t claim foul in the Kentucky Derby. It’s tradition. But the stewards had to make the call they did after the foul was lodged. Yes, this was a no brainer.
Another Derby another bomb not on the radar ha oh man....
Clearly \"on the radar\" of TG. His last was a point off of the winner\'s, with an improving line.
Isn\'t Servis a cheat of late anyway? He stats seem to indicate that. Am I right? If so.........KARMA.
Bullshit.
Why don\'t we look at the first turn with as much focus?
That was the SoCal stewards. Agree with you there. But earlier that year, the Churchill stewards DQed the same Bayern from 1st in the Derby Trial, a decision that kept Bayern from qualifying for the Derby. So, based on past history, it wouldn\'t have mattered who trained MaxSec.
When you take out 3 horses, almost drop 2 of them, and completely cost them position, it\'s an easy call. The only reason it took so long is because it\'s the Derby, with all the scrutiny that comes with it. FYI - MaxSec was placed, not behind War Of Will, but 17th, behind Toddy, the worst finisher of the 3 he fouled.
Just think of what would be happening to the sport right now if one of the horses fell and the jockey got trampled. The calls to ban the sport would be loud and never-ending.
By the way, this has to be one of the all-time weird Doubles - the same trainer has a horse DQed in both the Oaks and the Derby. That\'ll never happen again.
I get it, a foul is a foul, but for the last 35 years watching this race and seeing the roughly riddled race every year, out of the gate, into the first turn , around the second turn and never a dq,
If you were going for safety every race, limit the field to 14 or something.
Best horse won regardless, would of won anyway you look at it, should of stayed up.
Roman Wrote:
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> I get it, a foul is a foul, but for the last 35
> years watching this race and seeing the roughly
> riddled race every year, out of the gate, into the
> first turn , around the second turn and never a
> dq,
> If you were going for safety every race, limit the
> field to 14 or something.
> Best horse won regardless, would of won anyway you
> look at it, should of stayed up.
You have no idea, None, of what would have happened if WOW wasn\'t impeded. He was making a move on the turn and full of run, then MS came out and nearly dropped him.
John had Jaywalk
I agree with you about the field size
who got laid out in the first turn? you can\'t look at the turn from home and make decisions that have no effectc on the result.....the winner was the winner on the turn.......But if stewards are looking at a race....look at the entire race.
why were the jocks that rode beside the #6 in the oaks pemitted to ride today?
On the radar maybe but CD analysis gave out 8 horses. #20 wasn\'t one of them.
20 objecting is the gross part of it all to me. There’s so much that goes on in this race every year the irony shouldn’t be lost on anyone that this is the instance they take someone down. Silver’s pre race post sums it up pretty perfectly. Foul or no foul it’s a terrible look and will absolutely turn a massive amount of people off at a time when it’s the last thing racing needs.
You can’t take down the horse that ran the best in this race for something that 95% of the people who were watching either didn’t see, don’t understand, or both. Super Poor optics from where I sit. No Stewards inquiry, why did the 20 object again?
boardedup Wrote:
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> 20 objecting is the gross part of it all to me.
> There’s so much that goes on in this race every
> year the irony shouldn’t be lost on anyone that
> this is the instance they take someone down.
> Silver’s pre race post sums it up pretty
> perfectly. Foul or no foul it’s a terrible look
> and will absolutely turn a massive amount of
> people off at a time when it’s the last thing
> racing needs.
>
> You can’t take down the horse that ran the best
> in this race for something that 95% of the people
> who were watching either didn’t see, don’t
> understand, or both. Super Poor optics from where
> I sit. No Stewards inquiry, why did the 20 object
> again?
So because many people watch this race without a clue about racing, we should just ignore infractions.
Those same people will be back next year.
IDK man, how many infractions are ignored in every derby every year? In my personal opinion this could be disatorous. Now the precedent has been set and I can see a very likely scenario where it turns into something like modern day NFL, where after every incomplete pass play everyone looks around and waits to see if a flag’s been thrown. The “most exciting two minutes in sports†turns into the worst gut churning 22 minutes waiting out objections. Because there’s a plethora of infractions, many borderline some not so much in every single KY Derby. Do we excuse what happens going into the first turn and only worry about things that happen late? What are coaches biggest complaint’s with officials- inconsistency. So then let’s limit the number of starters, but then you lose a good deal of the betting opportunity and a big part of what makes the KY Derby the KY Derby and brings so many people into the pools.
Like the officiating in the playoffs of NBA/NFL at the highest level, in the biggest spots the objective is to let the athlete decide the outcome, I see this as the same, the #7 was best, and the #20 had no business objecting. That’s my opinion. And I will say the overwhelming attitude/vibe opinion of people at the book was that of bitterness and disbelief, for whatever that’s worth. I think it’s a bad look and a potentially dangerous precedent. But I do understand the point of “a foul is a foul is a foul†however I tend to live in the grey and not see things in that black and white context. For many this result will be the ultimate in unsatisfying. If you unloaded on the 20 @ 65/1 you’re absolutely loving life, to each his own.
watch the beginning of the race again. Flavien comes in from the 20 hole and impedes a horse far more than he was \"compromised\" by MS.
he threw a hail mary and it got caught.
the foul is a foul argument is stupid because these are STEWARDS and they take many different things into consideration.
if you want to start living by the foul is a foul standard you could probably DQ a horse in a whole lot more races than is the current rate.
how many times does a foul is a foul happen out of the gate or in the 1st turn with no objection?
Any of these stewards working during the Life At Ten debacle ?
If WOW claimed foul, this wouldn\'t be nearly of a joke as it is now.
There was no stewards inquiry. They have replays, there is no way if something major happened they aren\'t putting the inquiry sign up, period. And they didn\'t.
If a jockey claims foul you should be looking at his claim only, not oh hey maybe the horse impacted another jockey who DIDNT EVEN CLAIM FOUL. otherwise why don\'t you go back and dissect every single aspect of the race and start making other changes too?
can you imagine the backlash the NFL would get if someone challenged a catch but called a holding penalty on the lineman while they watched the review of the pass being made?
Wasn\'t mentioned during the broadcast but the 18 objected too
18 was stopped cold by this incident. He objected. Does he have rights or just WoW?
dcost328 Wrote:
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> watch the beginning of the race again. Flavien
> comes in from the 20 hole and impedes a horse far
> more than he was \"compromised\" by MS.
>
> he threw a hail mary and it got caught.
>
> the foul is a foul argument is stupid because
> these are STEWARDS and they take many different
> things into consideration.
>
> if you want to start living by the foul is a foul
> standard you could probably DQ a horse in a whole
> lot more races than is the current rate.
>
> how many times does a foul is a foul happen out of
> the gate or in the 1st turn with no objection?
>
> Any of these stewards working during the Life At
> Ten debacle ?
>
> If WOW claimed foul, this wouldn\'t be nearly of a
> joke as it is now.
>
> There was no stewards inquiry. They have replays,
> there is no way if something major happened they
> aren\'t putting the inquiry sign up, period. And
> they didn\'t.
>
> If a jockey claims foul you should be looking at
> his claim only, not oh hey maybe the horse
> impacted another jockey who DIDNT EVEN CLAIM FOUL.
> otherwise why don\'t you go back and dissect every
> single aspect of the race and start making other
> changes too?
>
> can you imagine the backlash the NFL would get if
> someone challenged a catch but called a holding
> penalty on the lineman while they watched the
> review of the pass being made?
I think we all agree: A foul is a foul
I think we all agree: we have all seen worse(not taking down)
I think we all agree: MS was the gonna win anyway
I think we all agree: It wasn\'t flagrant
I think we all agree: if it was Baffert it would have not come down
I think we all agree: it didn\'t cost anyone a different finish
Never should a came down,bad call, Its the KENTUCKY DERBY
PHILYWHEEL
No I absolutely do not agree with all of that. You don\'t know who would have won if that didn\'t happen and absolutely placings were 100% affected
After drinking a few and sleeping on it my thoughts
My key horse was the 7
The 1 was an A horse
That being said and being honest with myself no doubt the 7 came out
However I feel the only horse that really had an objection was the 1.
Tyler was loaded and road a great race.
If the 7 holds his line the 1&7 are going at it down the stretch.
This one stung a bit
Still feel if the trainer isn’t Servis he stays up.
Only 364 more days
No one has mentioned that Casse/Barber could have claimed or told Tyler to claim foul?
WOW has a Gr 1 grass placing in his 2nd start. He won Grade 2&3 Derby Preps on dirt. He is a War Front who most feel have distance limitations.
Don’t you think if either trainer or owner thought they had a realistic shot at a In the money finish in the Derby@ 10f they would have been all over it?
Anyone have a clue what that would do to breeding/syndication $$$?
Mott phoned an inquiry in against a friend of mine a Stakes at GP. No Stewards. No Jocks. He was at Payson and called it in. They took the horse down from 2nd. It was the right call.
As a matter of fact the PA announcer called it a Trainers Objection. And he wasnt even at the Track. It cost a lot of us money but it was the right decision. The issue is why was everyone else asleep. Like here. Stewards should been on this
Read the race chart
I don’t agree
The last thing the stewards want to do in the Kentucky Derby is initiate an inquiry. The second to last thing they want to do is take the winner down.
Show me a race where a horse blew the turn by 3 paths and stopped three horses cold on the first turn but wasnt disqualified from a placing
There\'s always jostlingly and bumping, that\'s not what happened. Suddenly and sharply moving 2-3 paths and stopping competitors in their tracks is a foul.
john9969 Wrote:
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> Why don\'t we look at the first turn with as much
> focus?
Making physical contact while veering out is flagrant, that\'s absolute non-sense to argue otherwise. You won\'t find a majority of people who agree with your statement there.
1 and 18 were not going to win the race, that much is true, but stating they weren\'t cost better placings by the incident as a fact is just downright laughable.
Let\'s make a list of the races where a foul of this sort is worthy of a DQ, and another list where fouls of this sort do not apply.
From Nicole Russo on DRF after interviewing Mark Casse:
War of Will probably on to Preakness, and more thoughts from Casse
War of Will, who crossed the line eighth in the Kentucky Derby after his incident with Maximum Security, and was elevated to seventh with the disqualification of the latter, was in good order at trainer Mark Casse\'s barn this morning. The colt emerged with only one superficial nick on his right front leg. He\'s now considered likely to head on to the Preakness Stakes in two weeks.
\"He\'s jumping up and down, it\'s like he didn\'t do anything [yesterday],\" Casse said. \"I think he probably will [go to the Preakness]. I wouldn\'t doubt you\'ll have the biggest Preakness field you\'ve had in awhile, because of all ther stuff that happened, and because of the [sloppy] racetrack. ... I\'m sure there\'s gonna be lots of people wanting another chance.\"
Here\'s what else Casse had to say the morning after.
On watching the incident in the race:
\"I said a very bad word at that quarter pole. I see him moving, and I looked up, and I said a bad word ... and I looked, and there\'s a camera right in front of me.\"
On why jockey Tyler Gaffalione didn\'t claim foul, and how he feels about riders having to claim foul in general:
\"When Tyler came back, he said he clipped heels. He said how he didn\'t go down, he didn\'t know. And we talked for a second about [claiming foul]. But we didn\'t feel - what, so we could be sixth? I don\'t think riders should have to claim foul. I think it\'s up to the stewards to make those decisions. [Jockeys], you want them to work every day beside each other and get along. Do you think [if I\'m a rider], I\'m gonna take the biggest race of [another rider\'s] life away? So I can be sixth? They shouldn\'t put the riders in that predicament. These are their friends. They ride with them every day.\"
\"I would say if there was any mistake yesterday - and I have to say, I have the highest respect for the stewards - it was the inquiry sign should have gone up as soon as they passed the wire. ... I was actually kind of surprised it wasn’t up.â€
On the disqualification:
\"I feel sorry for the Wests. I feel sorry for Gary Barber, because our horse was ranging up. He may have beat us, but it was gonna be a race. I feel sorry for Luis Saez. I feel sorry for Jason Servis. I feel sorry for Bill Mott, because that\'s not the way he wanted to win the Kentucky Derby. But should the horse have come down? Absolutely.\"
On avoiding disaster:
\"I don\'t feel sorry for Mark Casse, because I have War of Will this morning.\"
\"He\'s just such an athlete. Horse racing should be happy that was War of Will put in that situation, because he he goes down, I think it would have been the biggest disaster. It\'s not like it\'s a six-horse field with four horses behind him. There were 18 behind him. It would have been ... \"
WOW didn\'t claim foul because he finished 7th, and IMO didn\'t want to change an outcome that wouldn\'t have helped him win the race. If WOW had hit the board he absolutely would have claimed foul. So lets just stop with this \'WOW didn\'t claim foul\" narrative.