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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: TGJB on March 16, 2019, 07:24:57 PM

Title: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: TGJB on March 16, 2019, 07:24:57 PM
... and I’m pretty sure not the last

I won’t bet a dime on any American race where Lasix is not allowed.

My question is, when a 1/5 shot is eased and comes back with blood pouring from his nose, who will scream louder, the bettors or PETA?
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: grinder on March 17, 2019, 03:11:24 AM
Without question -both groups will be screaming in the scenario you presented. However, the bettors will be demanding the reinstatement of Lasix, whereas, PETA would state that this outcome supports their position that horses are being \"abused\" and racing should be banned.

Horse racing is clearly at the crossroads here. Even though it appears that an agreement between the respective parties regarding race-day Lasix at Santa Anita has been reached, I would say the line on whether they are still racing there in 5 years is at best - pick\'em.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: johnnym on March 17, 2019, 04:30:13 AM
And all the while this explains the cause of the breakdowns how?
I’m with you Grinder,I think Santa Anita days are numbered.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: Silver Charm on March 17, 2019, 04:50:30 AM
Wait a minute. Stronach is certainly an easy pinyata here. But where was a similar frustration when so called racing people closed Hollywood Park? He wants some form of quality control at his place of business. Isnt he at least entitled
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: TGJB on March 17, 2019, 05:45:34 AM
First of all, it’s apparently her, not him. Second, there are other stakeholders (the bettors, for example). Banning lasix is synthetics reduxâ€" a headlong rush without consulting the customers, and for no good reason. It’s being pushed by non stakeholders with agendasâ€" a few rich dilettante owners who don’t make their living in the game, egged on by commercial breeders who want to sell “pure” bloodstock.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: BB on March 17, 2019, 05:53:59 AM
Any horseplayer who isn\'t deeply concerned that Belinda Stronach is now the most influential person in American racing needs to have their head examined.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: JimP on March 17, 2019, 06:21:28 AM
A strange choice of hill to die on. You believe many of the winningest trainers are cheating. And that doesn’t stop you from betting. But the elimination of Lasix would be the thing that takes you out of the game? What’s wrong with NO DRUGS including Lasix?
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: Rich Curtis on March 17, 2019, 06:23:18 AM
The very idea that it is possible to \"explain\" the \"cause\" of the breakdowns is insane. Let this idea in the door and you are done. You will be placing yourself at the mercy of randomness and you will go to bed every night under a Sword of Damocles.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: TGJB on March 17, 2019, 06:33:01 AM
What’s RIGHT about conflating a therapeutic drug that protects horses and bettors with illegal drugs that hurt both? I’ve been fighting illegal drugs harder and longer than almost anyone in this industry. And it is an industry. If it doesn’t work as a business it won’t be around as a sport.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: JimP on March 17, 2019, 06:46:31 AM
Are you in favor of the use of other therapeutic drugs on race days, or just Lasix?
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: TGJB on March 17, 2019, 06:51:47 AM
My guess would be no, but that’s not my issue. There’s a reason lasix is the only drug listed in the program. Think about why that is.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: JimP on March 17, 2019, 07:43:45 AM
So I understand your position to be that the business of racing can not survive without race day administration of Lasix. There aren’t any other drugs that you think should be allowed on race day. And you feel so strongly about Lasix that if racing does decide to eliminate Lasix you will quit the business. Does that pretty well sum up you position?

What is your opinion about the California decision to cut the race day dosage of Lasix in half instead of immediately banning it? Does that cross your red line?
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: TGJB on March 17, 2019, 07:55:25 AM
Rather than having you characterize my position, later today we will repost an op-Ed I wrote on this subject a few years ago, and possibly a section of a recent article by Sid Fernando which is spot on.
I don’t know enough to have an opinion on effects of changing the dosage. But what’s the rationale? The idea is to keep horsing from bleeding, and oh yeahâ€" protect the public.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: grinder on March 17, 2019, 10:36:23 AM
What may be less well known in the US about Belinda Stronach was that she was formerly a member of Canada\'s House of Commons in 2005.She was also in a common-law relationship with Peter MacKay, a high profile member of the Conservative Party in Canada. Here is an excerpt from the Globe and Mail dated May 19, 2005, regarding the end of their relationship:

\"On Monday night, Belinda Stronach ate dinner with her boyfriend Peter MacKay. Then, without saying where she was going, she popped over to 24 Sussex Dr. to talk with Prime Minister Paul Martin over another lavish, late meal.

Mr. MacKay, the deputy Conservative leader, made a brief appearance at a Tory fundraiser before heading home. He didn\'t know where she was, but when she returned to him in the wee hours, she made a confession that ripped out his heart: Ms. Stronach would cross the floor to the Liberals the next morning.

\"She came back after midnight on Monday night,\" Mr. MacKay said at his father\'s farm yesterday, speaking publicly for the first time since Ms. Stronach defected to the Liberals. \"She\'d been at the Prime Minister\'s residence. I had no idea. . . . She hadn\'t told me anything about it.\"

\"I was completely surprised,\" he said softly. \"I knew she\'d been troubled and had a lot on her mind, but I didn\'t see this coming. I didn\'t see it coming.\"

Until 8 o\'clock in the morning, Mr. MacKay pleaded with his ambitious colleague and lover to abandon her plan to leave the Conservatives -- and by extension him -- just days before a crucial budget vote in the House of Commons. She left anyway
.\"

Needless to say, Ms. Stronach is not known for her loyalty to any group or anyone.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: johnnym on March 17, 2019, 11:00:07 AM
I know plenty of handicappers who use first time lasix as a betting angle.
What about increased does of Lasix?
Santa Anita currently only allowing half doses.
CD allowing full doses.
Ty
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: Boscar Obarra on March 17, 2019, 12:49:23 PM
johnnym Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know plenty of handicappers who use first time
> lasix as a betting angle.

> Ty


do you know the names of their  yachts ?
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: Silver Charm on March 17, 2019, 01:09:31 PM
Yes I do. One is called Aiden and the other Obrien I believe.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: Boscar Obarra on March 17, 2019, 05:08:31 PM
Not bad .
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: hooper on March 17, 2019, 05:09:11 PM
TGJB,why do the smaller non Lasix jurisdictions Aus,France,Great Britain,Hong Kong and Japan wager more in total than we do?
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: TGJB on March 17, 2019, 05:42:12 PM
Yeah, it could be no lasix. Or it could be no baseball, pro and college basketball and football, hockey, golf, lotteries, casinos...
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: boardedup on March 19, 2019, 12:00:50 AM
So no lasix at SA but it’s cool at the other tracks owned/controlled by the family?  It really doesn’t make sense other than a “pass the buck” type thing.  To me it seems like she was willing to do whatever she could to appease a certain segment of people as long as the track doesn’t have to bare responsibility for the recent rash of breakdowns.

The whole thing wreaks of hypocrisy and short sightedness.  I’m hopefull that there will be a strong enough push back that the suggested lasix changes ultimately don’t come to fruition.  And I’m also of the opinion that if they do go through, it will only hurt CA racing in general, and SA specifically.  With the end of HP the other year where does a possible exstinction  level event on the horizon for SA leave west coast racing?  Seems bad.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: APny on March 19, 2019, 07:55:42 AM
Can someone explain why it\'s ok to run lasix free overseas but it can\'t work here?  I don\'t get it.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: Tavasco on March 19, 2019, 12:38:45 PM
APny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone explain why it\'s ok to run lasix free
> overseas but it can\'t work here?  I don\'t get it.

I believe, as has been alluded to herein that, Ms. Stronach has an agenda that we can only speculate about. As an industry oligarch she can do as she pleases. She thinks no or minimal lasix is to her benefit and is likely oblivious to others.

My guess is she thinks doing away with lasix will end equine catastrophic breakdowns and consequently bad SA press. As my wife likes to say you can\'t argue with stupid.

European racing has nothing, nada imho to do with Ms. Stronachs current agenda.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: TGJB on March 19, 2019, 12:55:41 PM
I posted some brief thoughts on this question on the other string.
Title: Re: Allow me to be the first...
Post by: JimP on March 19, 2019, 01:16:20 PM
There aren’t any reasons why it couldn’t work here as well as Europe. Lots of reasons why it won’t.