Thoughts from the board?!?
Good Luck,
Joe B.
Link Please
I am certain that video was meant sarcastically. Jorge Navarro is a known horseman\'s horseman who gets to the track earlier than anyone else, works harder than anyone else, and cares for his horses more than the other trainers. With a guy like Jorge, it isn\'t about the money; it\'s about the horses.
Until trainers on backsides that begin to call out those that they know are not playing on a fair playing field, nothing will happen. Out of self preservation, the other trainers turn a blind eye as much as the \"powers\" that be who rely upon entries by the trainers. In the alternative, uniform federal medication rules with equal and stiff penalties to those that fail tests are another way to level the playing field. Also worth considering is frozen samples as JB has suggested and sophisticated testing on every horse in every competition. Watch and see who can really train then.....but that is just a dream in the world of horse racing.
Why do I feel like I\'m back on the A train to AQU?
Fairmount1 Wrote:
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> I am certain that video was meant sarcastically.
> Jorge Navarro is a known horseman\'s horseman who
> gets to the track earlier than anyone else, works
> harder than anyone else, and cares for his horses
> more than the other trainers. With a guy like
> Jorge, it isn\'t about the money; it\'s about the
> horses.
>
> Until trainers on backsides that begin to call out
> those that they know are not playing on a fair
> playing field, nothing will happen. Out of self
> preservation, the other trainers turn a blind eye
> as much as the \"powers\" that be who rely upon
> entries by the trainers. In the alternative,
> uniform federal medication rules with equal and
> stiff penalties to those that fail tests are
> another way to level the playing field. Also
> worth considering is frozen samples as JB has
> suggested and sophisticated testing on every horse
> in every competition. Watch and see who can
> really train then.....but that is just a dream in
> the world of horse racing.
What is your basis of knowledge for anything you state in the first paragraph?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=aAemuEqNZYE&app=desktop
Are any of those guys Navarro?
Also I am assuming Fairmount1 post has a certain amount of satire attached to it.
I was informed that the one guy is Navarro
Pretty messed up.
So the guy asking \"Is that Navarro right there 2/1?\" is supposed to be Navarro?? Seems like bad information.
TheBull Wrote:
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> So the guy asking \"Is that Navarro right there
> 2/1?\" is supposed to be Navarro?? Seems like bad
> information.
Want to translate that into english?
A poster commented that he was told that the one guy in the video was, in fact, Navarro. So.....in English......I highly doubt the overweight hispanic man in the video asking \"Is that Navarro at 2/1??\" is actually Navarro himself. Seeing as how no one else in the video resembles Navarro, I doubt Navarro was in said video....making it bad information. Enough English for you wise ass?
That heavy Latin man in the video is Jorge Navarro with the Yankee hat. Talking about himself in the third person is a little odd but that\'s either his identical twin or him.
Just watched again.
Guy should be suspended for life.Made an example of.
To lean over and say \"That\'s how we do it,F*ck EM\"
They clearly knew they were being taped, so find is extremely hard to believe that he would say something like that. I assume it\'s someone that has a strong resemblance.
It\'s definitely him in the Yankee cap. I\'m at the snore enough to know what he looks like and the sound of his voice.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
Given people on twitter (posting links to my post) and on here have mistaken the first paragraph of my post as supportive of Jorge Navarro, let me clarify. Long time readers of the board should know I have little to no belief that Jorge Navarro is on the \"up and up.\"
I\'ve long posted my disdain for medication and drug problems in the sport. Certainly, in this instance I\'m not impressed with Jorge Navarro and the video.
See these Jorge related posts if you doubt my earlier post in this string was anything except Sarcasm entirely in the first paragraph. Please note these posts contain sarcasm as well but they should clear up what I think of this guy:
https://www.thorograph.com/phorum/read.php?1,101551,106883#msg-106883
https://www.thorograph.com/phorum/read.php?1,101551,101700#msg-101700
TheBull Wrote:
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> A poster commented that he was told that the one
> guy in the video was, in fact, Navarro. So.....in
> English......I highly doubt the overweight
> hispanic man in the video asking \"Is that Navarro
> at 2/1??\" is actually Navarro himself. Seeing as
> how no one else in the video resembles Navarro, I
> doubt Navarro was in said video....making it bad
> information. Enough English for you wise ass?
Not Navarro ? Wow. Post of the year!
I\'m willing to entertain the idea it might not be him. Here\'s a picture compare off the video and a stock shot . Not perfect, very close, but if it\'s not him, they are taking an awfully long time to disavow.
Navarro or Not Varro (http://imgur.com/YSOv1v4)
You guys sound so silly.....The video is def of Navarro. If you\'re on this board I\'d think you\'d know who racings major players are.....criminals or not. The owner who\'s yapping is also a regular at MP who is regularly drunk and slurring around the track. The sad part is people will trash talk Navarro but give Baffert a pass, even though what Bafferts done this year is far worse and ruining the game on a larger scale.
Thanks for playing the home game. over 200 views and you\'re the only one that posted. Typical engagement rate.
Thanks for posting the video.
My thoughts are along the lines of water is wet and I am skeptical that any bookie is taking on $20K of exposure out of the tote except from proven losers.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/223520/monmouth-stewards-urge-large-fines-for-gindi-navarro
Was wondering. why we didn\'t hear anything.
TheBull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A poster commented that he was told that the one
> guy in the video was, in fact, Navarro. So.....in
> English......I highly doubt the overweight
> hispanic man in the video asking \"Is that Navarro
> at 2/1??\" is actually Navarro himself. Seeing as
> how no one else in the video resembles Navarro, I
> doubt Navarro was in said video....making it bad
> information. Enough English for you wise ass?
Apology accepted.
Thats the penalty for bragging about cheating? WTF
philywheel
philywheel Wrote:
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> Thats the penalty for bragging about cheating?
> WTF
>
> philywheel
3rd paragraph of the article. That is the maximum fine that NJ stewards can levy. They asked the state to levy heftier additional fines.
BB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> philywheel Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thats the penalty for bragging about cheating?
> > WTF
> >
> > philywheel
>
> 3rd paragraph of the article. That is the maximum
> fine that NJ stewards can levy. They asked the
> state to levy heftier additional fines.
Tiz true. But I would hope that the two men who are responsible for running
Monmouth, attorney Dennis Drazin and Robert Kulina, who literally grew up at
Monmouth Park and has worked there his entire adult life, would approach the NJ
Sports and Exposition Authority (owners of Monmouth) and, in conjunction with
the NJSEA, consider either banning these two mucksacks, or at least look to
severely curtailing Navarro\'s 2018 stall allotment.
Let Navarro stable and race at NYRA tracks. Let us see if he can maintain his
41% strike rate when not competing against the \"Mom and Pop\" outfits that
stable and race at Monmouth.
If Kulina and Drazin continue to tolerate this conduct, it might be time to
begin calling the Oceanport track \"Monmouth Parx\" or \"Parx North\'
I always said there is a million ways to lose a race and only 1 way to win
make that a million and 1, I need these 2 bozo\'s laughing at me when I lose,
very discouraging that they are allowed to get away with fixing races with only a slap on the wrist and not permanent disbarment(they should be made a example of)
philywheel
At least someone seems interested in \"stopping the insanity\".
http://www.drf.com/news/indiana-would-deny-navarro-license
More good news:
In an article published in DRF this morning, Maryland officials stated that
they would not not accept entries from Jorge Navarro. The immense Richiebee
bankroll will be visiting Laurel via Bed Room Downs on Saturday in recognition
of the Maryland Jockey Club\'s good judgment.
In some very dismaying news, also in the article (which I am for some reason
not able to link here), Dennis Drazin, attorney and horse owner, CEO of Darley,
which conducts racing at Monmouth Park, has thrown his support behind Navarro,
stating that Navarro will be welcome back to the Shore in 2018.
So as far as I\'m concerned, and I am a minnow, not a whale:
1) Looking forward to Laurel Racing Saturday;
2) Great work by folks in Indiana denying Navarro the right to enter;
3) I will not be betting a single shekel at Mth until Navarro is excluded;
4) I will wait for other racing jurisdictions to \"Do The Right Thing\" regarding
Navarro and sanction him for conduct unbecoming
5) Turo Escalante is still my favorite horse trainer.
I have to say that I disagree with this. Yeah, he\'s an ass, and a fine for what\'s in the video is about right. But what the tracks are doing here is demagoguery, wrapping themselves in righteous indignation. If you want to bar the guy, catch him doing what he\'s obviously doing-- which means doing things they don\'t want to, like spending money. Until they are freezing samples and retesting them, until they are publishing all test results, in detail, on a timely basis, they don\'t mean business. I\'ve been saying that here for ten years
Earlier this year we found out that Oaklawn BEGAN testing for TC02 halfway through the effin meet. In 2017. That\'s a f-----g joke. And we have a bunch of other clueless morons who want to ban Lasix. They\'re all full of crap. No accolades from this quarter for bombastic posturing.
richiebee Wrote:
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> 5) Turo Escalante is still my favorite horse
> trainer.
Yet another Ortiz at the top of a racing hierarchy.
In the remote chance there was any confusion, the bombast I referred to was courtesy of the industry, not Richie. Ever. He\'s the anti-bombast.
JB:
Here is a brief reflection. It might qualify as bombastic.
Lots of issues here, and for some reason I am thinking about how mass murderer
Al Capone was finally stopped (tax evasion), and how mass murderer John Gotti
may never have been convicted if it weren\'t for the RICO statute. Navarro and
Gindi are not Capone and Gotti, they are just a couple of knuckleheads who
would have been thrown out of the clubhouse in any track in America when people
used to actually attend the races, and when there was a real distinction
between the way folks behaved (and dressed) in the clubhouse as opposed to the
grandstand.
The point is that when you get an opportunity like this (here \"behavior
detrimental\") it should be taken advantage of. Give Navarro a five stall
allocation and let him run his horses off a training center in Colts Neck,
where, without prying eyes, he can work on all the chemistry experiments he
wants to.
To me freezing and retesting samples ten years down the road is futile UNLESS
you are going to hold a percentage of the purse in an interest bearing escrow
account. This unfortunately would affect the legitimate trainers as well as the
performance enhancers. I will leave it to Rezlegal or one of the other
barristers among the T-generates to ponder how a cheater who gets caught ten or
fifteen years after the fact could be dealt with without denying said cheater
due process of law.
I\'m thinking \"Bundles\" now because I just changed cable/phone providers. The
\"Bundle\" I am fixated on now involves three issues I see every day walking the
streets of Manhattan. (a) Panhandlers and homeless people (Hoover: \"A chicken
in every pot\"; deBlasio \"A panhandler on every block\"), (b) unemployment and
(c)unused, blighted vacant buildings. How to deal with this bundle: Put people
to work renovating vacant buildings and get the people off the streets and
living in these renovated buildings. Simple? No because it cuts across too many
government agencies, involves unions and who is going to pay? How much is it
worth to an individual taxpayer not to see a street person defecating on the
sidewalk in broad daylight?
Did I wander too far off the reservation in order to take a gratuitous shot at
a Mayor I am not fond of? No, I am \"circling back\" to the issue of who would
bear the cost of state of the art testing and enforcement. Take a percentage of
purse money? Increase takeout? Both?
What we call \"Racing\" is actually a \"bundle\" of industries: The breeders
produce the bloodstock; the bloodstock is either raised by the breeders or sold
at auction; the nearly finished product is sent to the racetrack for final
preparation; a groom leads the horse to the racetrack, a trainer gives a jockey
a leg up and game on! Millions of people, either at the track or a few miles or
a thousand miles away, are able to participate by wagering. Of course these
horses eat and require feed; stables require equipment; horseplayers want state
of the art data. I guess my point is there is a lot of money changing hands on
and off the track and there must be some revenue that can be tapped for state
of the art testing and/or surveillance.
Pinhookers (hypothetical) buy a yearling at a September auction for $250,000
and turn around and sell said yearling at an April 2YO in training auction for
$750,000. Sadly, many times the $750K 2YO, who went an 1/8th mile in \"nine and
change\" at the sale turns out to be limited at distances past a half mile and
never pans out. But the pinhooker got a half million dollars basically for
nurturing a growing animal (I will be a good lad and not discuss what surgeries
and performance enhancement these young prospects are subjected to in order to
produce that glorious nine second dash). If Racing had uniform governance, some
percentage of that half million could be \"diverted\" to a fund. Call it \"The
Future of Racing Fund\".
Expand the idea and look to bloodstock auctions. How much will champion Tepin,
reported in foal to Curlin, sell for in the auction ring? Between $3 and $4
million? Could we impose a tax on auction proceeds for the \"Future of Racing
Fund?\"
Enough already. I could go on for a while, and JB I think we both agree that
giving Lasix only to runners that really need it would be a huge step forward.
Long story short, Navarro is not good for racing, getting mad results against
the Mom and Pop trainers at Monmouth. He gave Racing an opportunity to say \"No
mas\", even if for the wrong reasons. Only a Dennis Drazin, worried that his
entry box will suffer next year, could be shallow enough to support him under
these circumstances.
Bottom line: I want Jorge N out and Frank D back in.
I\'ll just deal with one point. You don\'t have to hold anything in escrow. Cheaters are ahead of the testers, but they would be nuts to assume they\'re ahead of where the testers will be in 5 years. If you get a retroactive positive, you retest all that guy\'s samples-- and he gets hit for each positive. Multi positives are enough to ban someone for a very long time, maybe life. That should have a pretty good deterrent effect-- especially after you step on the first guy. As I told the Jockey Club nine years ago, you\'re going to have to hang someone.
And that\'s part two. The JC has a lot of money, and has proven they are willing to kick in to help. But they have no power to force tracks to act, which is why they are getting behind the Federal legislation. which they believe will get through next year. I have my doubts, and my doubts about whether it should, given the Lasix issue. I\'m going to end up having to fight them on that one, which I\'m not happy about.
Richie- the sole legal issue in the entire universe I am not capable of responding to in any meaningful way is how, why etc. this goes on. Let me add to this tale. Several weeks ago I had a telephone conversation with a huuuge name in the industry known to virtually everyone on this Board. In the course of the conversation I complimented this person for having taken an aggressive stance in the public eye on drugs in racing. I had never spoken to this well known person before. Notwithstanding, he shares with me that EPO continues to be a scourge. And he mentions one of the Saratoga supertrainers. He further advises that he had a conversation with one of the top directors of racing at NYRA that went something like this: \" I bet the fact that this trainer keeps winning ( including many Stakes)is driving you crazy \" NYRA big shot responds: \" It is driving me crazy and would love to catch him\" . I found this sort of stunning and chose to share it with one of the posters ( Poster in Chief actually) on this Board. His reply- after chuckling- was that the NYRA guy who would love to catch this supertrainer is best friends with (insert drum roll here)...David Jacobson. The Latin expression \" res ipsa loquitor\" - loosely translated \" the thing speaks for itself\" seems to apply.TGJB is right- shame on the racetracks!
I was expecting some action re: this video, only because it was so in your face.
The powers that be are much less tolerant of that kind of buffoonery , than a guy winning 40% of his starts, which they can explain away with BS .
Watch how tolerant MP becomes of guys like Navarro if they get sports betting in NJ.
Right now the Navarros of the MP world are filling cards so the suits there look the other way. Perhaps no different than Aqueduct in the winter. Don\'t look for them to come down on him and others until they are no longer needed.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
If I was on video boasting of juicing horses, illegal betting etc.... I would be worried about more than stall denial/fines etc......penalties being levied by the sport.
This is felonious conduct in every jurisdiction in the nation.
Had Navarro on NYRA Live ,Gabby Gaudet interviewing , ask him about the video and all he could say ,I will apologize for the rest of my life for the way I behaved
said he shouldnt have behaved that way, he does have the the heavy fav in the Kelso
surprised NYRA let him in
Philywheel
This board has been the subject of many posts over many years regarding drug use in this sport and those who repeatedly get away with it. Many of the posters on this subject have acknowledged the reduction or elimination of their betting handle. As Philly Wheels post suggests, today’s Navarro “ interview†was a shameful example of whitewashing by NYRA of this subject. Ms.Gaudet will never be confused with Mike Wallace or Katy Couric as a result of this interview which, of course, avoided, with tremendous effort, ever asking Navarro whether he has ever illegally used drugs or whether he was being truthful when recently caught on tape. Instead, we heard him “apologizeâ€â€" after reminding us he was a leading trainer-without ever telling us what he was apologizing for. I would be curious as to the genesis of this interview- did it come from NYRA to be used as a vehicle to justify letting his horse run in the Kelso or did the request come from Navarro to let him continue to play the bettors for fools by “apologizingâ€.To cap off NYRA’s version of 60 Minutes, Andy Serling took pains to remind everyone that NYRA has enhanced security as an additional justification for NYRA letting Navarro run. Shameful, simply shameful. The beat goes on.