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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: Tavasco on May 26, 2017, 06:28:53 PM

Title: Kentucky Derby winner Always Dreaming (not CE) to skip Belmont Stakes
Post by: Tavasco on May 26, 2017, 06:28:53 PM
Washington Post Headline via Google News

I\'m a fan of WAPO so I\'m suspecting either Google or Pletcher, who was cited as source of the story.

The apparent typo has been corrected now reads Always Dreaming instead of Classic Empire
Title: Re: Kentucky Derby winner Always Dreaming (not CE) to skip Belmont Stakes
Post by: richiebee on May 26, 2017, 07:16:54 PM
Speaking of Kentucky Derby participants and Santa Anita maiden races,
Sonneteer, 16th in the Derby, races v maidens at SA in race 4. Going
1-1/16th, this Calumet homebred does not necessarily need to win; he might merely
be prepping for the Jim Dandy at Saratoga, which, as we all remember, was won in
2016 by California maiden Laoban.

In the finale of an interesting Saturday card at SA, two of Gormley\'s
workmates in his preparation for a 9th place finish in the Derby face off in a
nine furlong maiden turf race. Those two workmates would be Ziconic (BY Tapit OUT
OF Zenyatta)(caps added for educational purposes) and Oregon (BY Mizzen Mast), who
looks like he should appreciate the extra ground.

Both Ziconic and Oregon are owned by the Mosses and will race uncoupled.
Title: Re: Kentucky Derby winner Always Dreaming (not CE) to skip Belmont Stakes
Post by: Tavasco on May 26, 2017, 08:59:08 PM
I\'m more optimistic about the Gormley gang than the brothers D colt Sonneteer.

Sonneteer is listed as the second choice @ 3/1 behind a H\'dorfer 5/2 favorite. I\'m still alarmed by how many Kentucky Derby participants fail to ever win again and nearly all of those had already won prior to the first Saturday in May. Coupled with the read that Sonneteer may need some R & R prior to improving.

Ziconic is bred even better than Epicharis and Oregon is the suspicious upper half of an uncoupled entry. However these are not BB trainees. Oregon does have I. Ortiz in the irons. Not enough money in NY for the brothers or maybe he\'s out there to cut a demo with Mr. Moss. DWTS alum Victor E. not the \"Money Man\" up on underachieving Zenyatta colt.

Famous maiden --> stakes winner Cupid aims to try a similar move by making his return in the Gold Cup? 6/1 m/l will no doubt vacuum up some dreamers $\"s but not me @ 1+1/4. Not as well bred as Epicharis for endurance.

The point is the speed vs endurance dispute of Belmont stakes.  The proven speed at say 1m - 1+1/8 e.g. IWC vs an imagined marathoner with a Dam sire that won the Arc and was favored in the BC Turf OUT OF a bandy legged mare.

Random memories - Curlin did not beat Rags To Riches. 1/4 mile is one complete lap of the Canoga Park H.S. track. That\'s a lot farther than the Preakness. MacLean\'s Music @ short odds?
Title: Re: Kentucky Derby winner Always Dreaming (not CE) to skip Belmont Stakes
Post by: richiebee on May 27, 2017, 02:01:44 AM
Tavasco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

 
> Ziconic is bred even better than Epicharis and
> Oregon is the suspicious upper half of an
> uncoupled entry. However these are not BB
> trainees. Oregon does have I. Ortiz in the irons.
> Not enough money in NY for the brothers or maybe
> he\'s out there to cut a demo with Mr. Moss. DWTS
> alum Victor E. not the \"Money Man\" up on
> underachieving Zenyatta colt.
 
I Ortiz is in Cali to ride Lady Eli. Chad Brown no doubt consulted with Frank D.
and realized his best chance for firm turf was on the West Coast.

Speaking of cutting a demo with Moss, Mr. M\'s partner in A&M Records, Herb
Alpert, pressed one of my favorite albums way back in the day when I was an
impressionable 8 or 9 year old. The album was \"Whipped Cream and Other Delights\"
and I can\'t remember a single track on said piece of vinyl; I do however
remember the album cover, which featured a winsome and well conformed young lass
covered with whipped cream (it turns out it wasn\'t really whipped cream). The
occasional request for Ms. Richiebee to cover herself in schlag have been
demurely yet firmly denied.
Title: Re: Kentucky Derby winner Always Dreaming (not CE) to skip Belmont Stakes
Post by: Dick Powell on May 27, 2017, 04:48:36 AM
A Taste of Honey