Ask the Experts

General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: JohnTChance on February 08, 2017, 01:45:28 PM

Title: About pricing...
Post by: JohnTChance on February 08, 2017, 01:45:28 PM
I'd like to weigh in with a personal opinion related to pricing. I've been an active and enthusiastic Thoro-Graph user for over 30 years (gulp) and the following is something I've felt strongly about for a while:

IF A HORSE HASN'T BEEN ASSIGNED A PERFORMANCE FIGURE FOR ITS LAST RACE, THEN DON'T CHARGE US FOR IT! THE PURCHASER SHOULD BE GIVEN SOME KIND OF REFUND.

It's maddening to encounter races where one or more of the runners have voided box symbols indicating "no-figure given." When that happens - and it's happened a lot over the years - the advantage Thoro-Graph users have is taken away. To get at least some read on a horse's line, we're reduced to interpolating a horse's current level from the Beyer-style speed figures in our past-performances of choice, always a dangerous and tricky translation.

We've all seen, say... a Larry Jones first-timer having won by 10 in the slop at Delaware, now trying Keeneland. Without a Thoro-Graph number assigned to that debut performance, the race becomes more of a question mark. Really then, a no Larry-fig means that race is unplayable. Long story deleted using many other obvious examples whereby one non-fig makes entire races unplayable.

[By the way, a personal aside: About ten years ago, in a certain period of time, I encountered a stretch of about 10 races (it must've been) that had "no-last-figs" in them. And every one of them resulted in the "no-last-fig" horse winning the race! I swear this is true. Amazing. Irritating. To myself, I called it "the Thoro-Graph curse." It should've been fodder for an episode of St. Bilko.]

To be clear, I'm not questioning Thoro-Graph's figure making abilities or their right to ultimately indicate "no-figure" for a race. You want to do that? Fine. Just don't charge us when that happens! Figure out some reasonable refund rules when that happens. Maybe not for 50-1 shot no-hopers. But certainly when the "no-fig-last" horse wins the race.

JohnTChance
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: TGJB on February 08, 2017, 02:05:24 PM
John-- when one of those shows up and looks relevant, post here asking for an estimate. Most of the time I can come up with one. Just give me at least a couple hours notice.
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: albatross on February 08, 2017, 02:29:14 PM
Several years ago, I made a suggestion and either didn\'t get a reply or missed one that was given. In your trainer profile section, you have more choices than those used on a particular situation, and adapt to the relevance of the entry or conditions of the race. I would like to see turf to dirt stats in every turf race taken off.  Most of the time that figure is irrelevant, but when a race is washed off, it can really make a difference. Unless you have a great weatherman, it would have to be every turf race. I\'m sure most players might find it worthwhile, even though rarely used. Thank You
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: TGAB on February 08, 2017, 03:40:16 PM
I\'m confused. So you want the turf to dirt stat for all turf races? Is that right?
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: albatross on February 08, 2017, 06:06:02 PM
On many occasions, when there is a race taken off the turf, it would be helpful to see how the trainer has performed going turf to dirt in the past.
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: RICH on February 09, 2017, 04:04:53 AM
I would like to know what the horse ate that day and the composition of his last poop, is there any way we can get this done and posted to the sheets
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: Airnate012 on February 09, 2017, 07:22:20 AM
I\'d also like to request trainer stats based on the barometric pressure at post. I\'ve heard that Keith Nations horses have been firing @  Penn National when the barometer drops below 29.67 in. Need this info today by noon, please and thank you.
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: ajkreider on February 09, 2017, 10:37:45 AM
It doesn\'t strike me as a crazy request.  Certain trainers may tend to have in training the kinds of horses that do well on both turf and dirt (not true turf-only horses).  Their training methods may set up their turf horses to do well in an unanticipated dirt start. Etc.  

Could also be worth seeing the scratch rates for such races/horses - the idea being that if a trainer usually scratches, but keeps a horse on the off track, he believes the horse will show something. Or the hit rates for MTO entries.  Etc.

Might be a lot of work for the payoff, except in rainy climes.  (SA now. GP summer).
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: Boscar Obarra on February 09, 2017, 10:41:24 AM
RICH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would like to know what the horse ate that day
> and the composition of his last poop, is there any
> way we can get this done and posted to the sheets

 Don\'t laugh, that might be the last frontier after all else is quantified.
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: TGAB on February 09, 2017, 10:55:04 AM
Alright, we\'ll get the turf to dirt stat put in on the sheets for all turf races. Our track guys have refused unanimously to scoop the poop, so that\'s a no go. As for barometric pressure go to the US Weather Bureau.
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: albatross on February 09, 2017, 12:15:56 PM
Many Thanks Mr. AB
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: johnnym on February 09, 2017, 12:48:53 PM
Tough crowd tough crowd I\'ll tell ya
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: DennisfromDE on February 10, 2017, 01:25:59 PM
Can I get a free hat sent to my house after every tenth purchase of a TG product?- Just asking
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: TGJB on February 10, 2017, 01:30:21 PM
How many hats do you have now, and which versions?
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: Topcat on February 11, 2017, 02:42:39 AM
TGJB Wrote:
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> How many hats do you have now, and which versions?

You might want to consider visors as premiums -- if you haven\'t, already.
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: DennisfromDE on February 11, 2017, 08:03:28 AM
I have at least ten hats.  I was also thinking shirt\'s and hoodie\'s would be nice too.
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: RICH on February 11, 2017, 09:53:51 AM
please throw some boxers in too.
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: belmont3 on February 11, 2017, 07:23:04 PM
Bobbleheads of Uncle Bill are in order
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: Topcat on February 11, 2017, 09:56:23 PM
belmont3 Wrote:
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> Bobbleheads of Uncle Bill are in order


A collectors\' item, for certain.
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: JohnTChance on February 12, 2017, 10:23:18 AM
Jerry -- I'm surprised you threw this back to me. It's not about a single customer asking you for an estimate on a one-by-one basis that can be patched up with a single band-aid. You know full well when it happens. You make the figures. You have the data. I suggest you be proactive. Examine the problem and come up with a policy.

It's like when half the Oaklawn card is cancelled and data is unused. Should users have to call in individually and ask for a rebate? No. Your end should be proactive, know the score, and give rebates to all those who ordered data without them getting back to you individually with nagging phone calls. You\'ve established a policy.
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: TGJB on February 12, 2017, 10:37:17 AM
John-- by definition those are races where there isn\'t enough data to come up with something accurate enough to put down in ink. I have no problem doing rough estimates, but there\'s no way to know whether a specific horse (or figure) is relevant until the horse is entered, and I don\'t handicap every day, or look at anywhere near all tracks even when I do. If you see something you need help with let me know, giving me as much time as you can, and I\'ll try to help.
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: DennisfromDE on February 12, 2017, 12:42:30 PM
That\'s something to think about.  A NYRA giveaway during Irish Heritage Day at Saratoga.
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: Flighted Iron on February 17, 2017, 09:14:43 AM
TGJB,

  Crabcakes in the 6th @ Laurel tomorrow is missing her last figure.

Thanks,
 Flighted
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: TGJB on February 17, 2017, 11:25:35 AM
Looks like around a pairup of her top.

It\'s not \"missing\". It means there wasn\'t enough data to responsibly make a figure, pending later review.
Title: Re: About pricing...
Post by: Flighted Iron on February 17, 2017, 12:50:34 PM
Copy not missing. Copy pair up.

 Thanks
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: albatross on February 18, 2017, 02:35:09 PM
Alan. Any time frame on that?

Thanks
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: TGAB on February 18, 2017, 03:31:35 PM
You should see the turf to dirt trainer stats added for all turf races starting in this Wednesday\'s sheets (2/22/17).
Title: Re: Not to be taken as a complaint line, but a request.
Post by: albatross on February 18, 2017, 05:12:06 PM
Great