The first whine that comes out of a bettors mouth when he loses a bet is the jock did or didn\'t do this or that. Sometimes it\'s justified many times it\'s not, your\'s truly is as guilty as anyone.
In this particular venue \"Wide Mike\" has been maligned as much as anyone over the years. We live and die on ground loss! A two time Eclipse Award winner, hall of fame inductee in 2003, winner of 4 Triple Crown races and the king of the Breeders Cup with an amazing 25 victories.
The hardcore everyday horse player in New York is hardly sensitive or rarely politically correct to say the least. Angel Cordero was booed anytime he lost on a favorite and was called \"the monkey\", when Chris Antley, Kent D. P. Val were in town they were always greeted with have another beer or lets do a line.
In the early 90\'s Mike was at the top of his game in NY, leading rider 91-93, 20 Grade 1 wins in 94, Eclipse Awards in 93-94, Prairie Bayou, Lure, Holy Bull. He rode as good as anyone whoever sat a horse for 7-8 years. In 1998 he broke a shoulder in March, was out a few months came back and was involved in one of the worst incidents on a race track that I\'ve ever seen at the Spa. Many thought he was dead. He broke a couple vertebrae in his back and spent several months in a body cast.
He came back in 99 and was not the same rider, started taking the safe way around the oval ala Johnny V, the past few years, Jerry Bailey at the end of his career.
He was booed off the NY circuit, lost most of his business, most crushing to him was losing the Shug/Phipps mounts, he was their guy. In 2000 he went out to Cali and struggled for a few years. He was done, toast, would never again be the same rider and was labeled Wide Mike, why would you ever bet him?
In 2005 he won the Derby on 50/1 Giacomo, a son of Holy Bull in 2008 he got aboard
Zenyatta and became relevant again.
All \"Wide Mike\" did the past 2 days was have 8 BC mounts, 3 wins, 3 seconds and a third not just on the even money big horses either. Finest City $19.40, Tamarkuz $25.80 and a 2nd on Coasted at 23/1.
He is now in my book officially Big Money Mike the King of the Breeders Cup.
Frank D.
Incredibly well said Frank. I was around down here in S Florida in the early 90\'s when Bailey moved in and took his spot. Mike was also splitting off from his long time lovely wife. (How did Tiger Woods golf game do when dealt with this and rehabing from injuries?)
I\'ve heard Jerry Bailey marvel at how hard Mike works to stay in shape. Remember people he is an athlete in his 50\'s. I\'ve known people who rode him and all of them would say \"give him instructions and he will follow\". Why is he getting all these Top Mounts from Top Connections?
Lastly the guy is personally all class. Say the right rhings. Great quotes. Stops for a picture. It\'s more about the game than it is about him. Hear that NFL athletes?
I wonder if Smith rode Chrome the outcome would of been different?
Reason I say this?I watched the race again and Victor to me rode not to loose. Victor was looking around way to much, kind of waiting on Smith horse to make his move.
Great post Frank did not know Smith history.
I fully expected them to send Arrogate from the 10 post out of the gate, play catch me if you can and try to wire the field. Was a little surprised when Smith didn\'t go early on, especially when I saw the first two fractions and was thinking what the hell is he doing letting Chrome get away like that?
Very patient, confident ride IMO.
The rail was open heading into the second turn and if Smith doesn\'t ask Arrogate right there to go, dart down to the inside and cut the corner I dunno if he would have got there in the end, and there\'s a lot of jocks who would not have made that move.
That\'s about as good of a ride, at least for the second half of the trip, as you will ever see. Not to mention switching to the right handed stick in deep stretch to get a little more.
Victor was horrible. Yucking it up in Distant warm up then Stellar Wind misses the break. Agree Johnny. Can\'t image Pat Day on Chrome with a all those body antics. Look at his ride on Cat Thief.
Silver,
You mean Pat \" I\'ll wait all Day\" LOL
Next time we chat I\'ll tell you the story of my flight back to Chicago after the 87 Travers the biggest one race score of my life, Java Gold, Cryptoclearance, Polish Navy as the skies opened up in a monsoon during the post parade!!!
I sat with Pat and Phil Tenowitz, Crypto\'s owner in a row of 3 seats.
I have been calling him that for years. Best in the game.
For years around here I\'ve taken ridicule for defending this guy. The \"wide Mike\" thing got so ridiculous I just stopped commenting. If people want to perpetuate a myth in their minds, you\'re not gonna change it. Many jockeys take horses wide, when Smith does it, its because he \"always does that\". When he goes inside or cuts the corner, something he does more often than you want to believe, its ignored.
I have no idea why it took this long for you guys to recognize how great he is, but you\'re finally coming around.
Frank,
Great post. Thanks for sharing it. Hope you had a great weekend.
Paul,
A Wide Mike post gets you up this early on the left coast!!!!
LOL I should have dedicated it to you.
Without taking any position on whether Wide Mike is a bum or a legend, there appears to me an extremely high correlation between \"Guys who have the most Breeders\' Cup victories\" and \"guys who are of an age that they\'ve raced in a lot of Breeders\' Cups.
I would love to hear that story as well.
From today\'s San Diego Union newspaper.
\"Shortly after the Smith engineered upset was complete, Team Arrogate was asked about whether the newly minted star would compete next year. Garrett O'Rourke, racing manager for Lexington's Juddmonte Farms, said all signs leaned that direction.\"
O'Rourke: "That's the good news. The bad news is we're going to bring him to
England."
Smith: "I'll go to England. Call me English Mike."
Heffernan(SP) ride on Highland Reel was equal to any of Smith\'s ride. That was a great ride.
Good one Frank.
I\'m never up this early. But I went to bed early...for me...and woke up around 7am. Noon flight back to the Bay Area.
You didn\'t think I wouldn\'t chime in about my guy, did you??
BTW 72,811 the reported attendance and 45,000+ on Friday for the biggest 2 day attendance since they\'ve gone to 2 days. It didn\'t feel cramped at all, unless you wanted a corned beef sandwich, That line was long. The betting lines weren\'t bad at all, and the mutuel machines never had more than 5 people in front of you.
Don\'t know how many of you have been to SA, but its perfect for the BC. Huge property, plenty of seats - with many places set up with tables/food and drink/mutuel clerks, lots of parking, several ways to get to the track from the freeway. Beautiful grounds, fountains, landscaping, the San Gabriel mountains sitting behind the backstretch. The weather is usually perfect.
Thanks JB and staff for putting out another outstanding BC seminar. Hard to not make money if you bought it.
johnnym Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heffernan(SP) ride on Highland Reel was equal to
> any of Smith\'s ride. That was a great ride.
He rode a nice race. He took a speed horse and took him wire to wire. Opened up down the backstretch and never gave the closers a chance.
Heffernan rode a very good race, but c\'mon. That doesn\'t compare to what Smith did on Arrogate. The patience, timing, stick work, dropping to the rail (yeah people, he does that too), getting every last bit of effort out of that horse down the stretch. That was a Great ride.
People can say he has the most BC wins because he\'s old. Bullshit. When the money is on the line, this guy will more often than not give you a great ride. The stats don\'t lie. Check out the prices on the winners, lots of prices. Hits the board a lot too. He isn\'t always riding Cadillacs.
Never will I take anything away from Smith he showed up big on his home court.Yes that was a good ride, if he didn\'t drop down he for sure would of lived up to his nick name and lost the race.
Early Derby thought; I hope Classic Empire goes in as the Favorite unlike Smith I just cannot trust Frenchy come Derby day.
Frank, well said. Like a few others, I knew MIke had a career path in NY, but was totally unaware that he got run out of there and that Team Shug dropped him. Thank you for posting that. My first thought was P-Dub response is coming, and was not disappointed.
For the last few years, wehn he takes off, I take notice. Drefong being the lone exception I can remember.
After a nice Friday, and what may have been a record payday Saturday, I let my heart tell to single Chrome - no chance a 3 YO posts that kind of fig again.
I agree with others that the ride on Reel was terrific, and unless the seminar reminds me that Found has run too often in last several weeks I\'d of singled Found. Killer for me was OM not getting up, and then not checking to see I didn\'t have A Lot in 3rd spot for the super....still, no complaints, just a lament on what might have been. Sounds like everyone did pretty well, so enjoy!
The first clause of the first sentence of my post: \"Without taking any position on whether Wide Mike is a bum or a legend,\" did you miss that P-Dub?
Some facts, rather than bullshit:
Before this weekend, top 10 money earners of B.C. jockeys (from http://stats.breederscup.com/) were, in order (age in parentheses): Mike Smith (51), Pat Day (63), John Velazquez (44), Jerry Bailey (59), Garrett Gomez (44), Frankie Dettori (45), Gary Stevens (53), Chris McCarron (61), Corey Nakatani (46), and Javier Castellano (39).
So let\'s get the important things out of the way first: I\'m obviously right.
Now, if you actually find yourself in an argument with someone about Mike\'s Breeders\' Cup talents, you\'ll want to know that while Mike has started more BC races than most (before this weekend 118, behind only Velazquez\' 149, and narrowly ahead of Day with 117, and Stevens with 115), he also wins more than anyone: 22 winners from those 118 starts (compare with Velazquez\' 13, Day\'s 12, and Stevens\' 10).
TempletonPeck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The first clause of the first sentence of my post:
> \"Without taking any position on whether Wide Mike
> is a bum or a legend,\" did you miss that P-Dub?
>
> Some facts, rather than bullshit:
>
> Before this weekend, top 10 money earners of B.C.
> jockeys (from http://stats.breederscup.com/) were,
> in order (age in parentheses): Mike Smith (51),
> Pat Day (63), John Velazquez (44), Jerry Bailey
> (59), Garrett Gomez (44), Frankie Dettori (45),
> Gary Stevens (53), Chris McCarron (61), Corey
> Nakatani (46), and Javier Castellano (39).
>
> So let\'s get the important things out of the way
> first: I\'m obviously right.
>
> Now, if you actually find yourself in an argument
> with someone about Mike\'s Breeders\' Cup talents,
> you\'ll want to know that while Mike has started
> more BC races than most (before this weekend 118,
> behind only Velazquez\' 149, and narrowly ahead of
> Day with 117, and Stevens with 115), he also wins
> more than anyone: 22 winners from those 118 starts
> (compare with Velazquez\' 13, Day\'s 12, and
> Stevens\' 10).
Well no sh!t. You obviously have to have raced enough to qualify.
Obviously right. And if I told you water was wet, I would obviously be right too. I wouldn\'t brag about it tho.
And as I stated, he hits the board a lot, wins with horses other than Cadillacs, and wins more than others,
Nothing you just said is enlightening. Bad day at the windows? You seem a bit touchy.
I was very clear with what I said, and I didn\'t miss a thing regarding your post.
shanahan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frank, well said. Like a few others, I knew MIke
> had a career path in NY, but was totally unaware
> that he got run out of there and that Team Shug
> dropped him. Thank you for posting that. My
> first thought was P-Dub response is coming, and
> was not disappointed.
>
> For the last few years, wehn he takes off, I take
> notice. Drefong being the lone exception I can
> remember.
>
> After a nice Friday, and what may have been a
> record payday Saturday, I let my heart tell to
> single Chrome - no chance a 3 YO posts that kind
> of fig again.
>
> I agree with others that the ride on Reel was
> terrific, and unless the seminar reminds me that
> Found has run too often in last several weeks I\'d
> of singled Found. Killer for me was OM not
> getting up, and then not checking to see I didn\'t
> have A Lot in 3rd spot for the super....still, no
> complaints, just a lament on what might have been.
> Sounds like everyone did pretty well, so enjoy!
Waiting for my flight, so time on my hands. Glad I didn\'t disappoint you.
I also needed Om for Rolling picks and the Win. Had Queen\'s Trust and Drefong to win, and needed Om to complete a nice P3. Just short.
I keyed HR and Flintshire 1/2 and tried to get a price underneath. Found killed all of it. Win ticket small consolation.
Didn\'t have Arrogate which cost me the P3 and P4. Shame on me, leaving Mike Smith off my ticket.
While certainly age is a factor in the number of mounts Smith has ridden in the Breeder's Cup, his win percentage is just so much better than most other jockeys with a number of mounts. Going into this Breeder's Cup he was 22/118 and adding this year he is now 25/126. That is 1 out of every 5 mounts winning for 20%. Here is a comparison for other jockeys. I have not bothered to add in this year's result yet and for some, they will improve since they nabbed a winner. So as on November 1, 2016 here are some jockey numbers for the Breeder's Cup.
Geroux, F – 50% (3/6)
Moore, R – 19% (8/42)
Gomes, G – 16% (13/83)
Bailey, J – 15% (15/102)
Dettori, L – 13% (11/88)
Day, P – 10% (12/117)
Leparous, J – 9% (6/66)
Velazquez, J – 9% (13/149)
Stevens, G – 9% (10/115)
Castellano, J – 7% (6/81)
FrankD wrote:
All \"Wide Mike\" did the past 2 days was have 8 BC mounts, 3 wins, 3 seconds and a third not just on the even money big horses either. Finest City $19.40, Tamarkuz $25.80 and a 2nd on Coasted at 23/1.
Some might wonder what BMM did on his 8th mount? The 3rd race Saturday 6 1/2f turf sprint down the hill. He was on the number one horse Wild At Heart for trainer Richard Mandella. A first time turf runner. Ten to one on the morning line and maybe a couple more at post time.
I know because it didn\'t take me until the classic to realize he was having a career weekend. The ride was note worthy as he rode the rail only to be blocked by his stablemate, #5 Juno (if memory serves) while launching what looked to my hopeful eyes as a move that would carry him into the trifecta. One can only speculate.
I was so impressed that I messaged a buddy suggesting the horse be added to his to watch list. I\'m expecting a follow-up turf try. Not a bad ride and for just a little good luck may have been another of his showcase efforts.
TempletonPeck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before this weekend, top 10 money earners of B.C.
> jockeys (from http://stats.breederscup.com/) were,
> in order (age in parentheses): Mike Smith (51),
> Pat Day (63), John Velazquez (44), Jerry Bailey
> (59), Garrett Gomez (44), Frankie Dettori (45),
> Gary Stevens (53), Chris McCarron (61), Corey
> Nakatani (46), and Javier Castellano (39).
>
> So let\'s get the important things out of the way
> first: I\'m obviously right.
>
> Now, if you actually find yourself in an argument
> with someone about Mike\'s Breeders\' Cup talents,
> you\'ll want to know that while Mike has started
> more BC races than most (before this weekend 118,
> behind only Velazquez\' 149, and narrowly ahead of
> Day with 117, and Stevens with 115), he also wins
> more than anyone: 22 winners from those 118 starts
> (compare with Velazquez\' 13, Day\'s 12, and
> Stevens\' 10).
Smith has a few other things working for him in regards to his BC resume, in addition to his riding abilities of course.
1) He\'s been riding pretty much since the inception of the Breeders Cup although his success didn\'t start until the early 90\'s.
2) He\'s kept his career going while some of the best of his generation... Day, Bailey, and McCarron have hung up their tacks.
3) Breeders Cup going to two days and adding races like the Turf Sprint, Juvy Turfs, F&M Sprint, Dirt Mile and even the Marathon have helped add to his total.
Lots of support for Mike Smith on this thread. And a nice starting point from Frank D. to launch it. (Frank - good you didn\'t post your Mike Smith comments after the American Gal ride earlier in the card.....)
Mike Smith is a money jockey and a gentleman. Seems like a great guy.
But have to say, i would disagree about the ride on Arrogate. if i were to credit the victory by Arrogate, I would say horse first, then trainer and then jockey.
As somebody who needed Chrome for a decent score, I have to say i was thrilled with Mike Smith\'s ride about 3/4 of the way through the race. 3 wide first turn, much further back off a fair pace than I expected him to be, letting Chrome have his way up front. The fact that the horse could give Chrome that kind of an edge, then still run Chrome down, going 1 1/4 miles off an almost 3 month layoff, was incredulous to me. i was counting my money 3/4 of the way through the race. Sure, the move to the inside on the second turn was nice as was the switch of the stick to the right hand, but that was all horse to me. And the trainer having this young horse ready to fire HUGE again off that layoff, was something else too. Spent a lot of time explaining to some buddies who only gamble big days, who wanted to bet Arrogate because Defrong fired big off that layoff, that it is a big difference sprinting off the layoff versus going 1 1/4.
Now, you could argue part of Mike Smith\'s brilliance is knowing when you are on a Cadillac and not making mistakes and steering clear of trouble (like on Zenyatta and now Arrogate). I could agree.
Personally, I thought the rides he gave Finest City and Tamarkuz were much better examples of great rides, as opposed to the Arrogate ride.
I want to see more of Arrogate. Hopefully he comes back next year. Feels like he could be one of the best we have seen the last 20 years. Yes, I know hyperbole after a win is dangerous, but he looks that good. That big stride late, coming home in about 24 again at the end of a 1 1/4 race. Visually awesome. I don\'t think Chrome was slowing down much. Just got run down. as much as in hindsight I would like to have seen Victor take off on the turn instead of looking backwards maybe 4 times, I won\'t blame Victor. Feels like Arrogate was just too good. (might have been closer for sure if Victor opens up but don\'t think he was beating Arrogate)
A possible rematch in January? Hmmm...
As usual a well thought out post.
As to Mike Smith, agree that with regards to the Classic winner, horse and
trainer should be in the spotlight. With regards to Cal Chrome, my OPINION is
that sometimes horses (and jockeys) coasting along on an easy lead sometimes
can lose focus and I do not know if this is what happened in the Classic.
My OPINION is that Mike Smith\'s best ride on the weekend may have been on
Songbird (a bit contrarian, I guess). And a very risky GUESS by Collmus calling
Beholder the winner... he would have been roasted had he called it incorrectly.
Regarding Smith aboard Tamarkuz, seems like he benefited from the
Dortmund/Unhappy speed duel and the fact that (my OPINION) Gun Runner has
turned into a bit of a \"hanger\" (check out GR\'s finish in the PA. Derby).
Ditto with regards to Finest City, who benefited from the fact that Rosario
couldn\'t get Wavell Ave to change leads late (Wavell also has a bit of \"hang\" in her lately, no?).
Bottom line on \"Iron\" Mike: As Frank documented so well, Smith has weathered
the highs and lows, the devastating injuries. He has mostly avoided the
personal demons which have pursued talented riders such as Kent Desormeaux and
PVal (and many others) throughout their careers. He has kept himself in
tremendous physical condition, which allows him to compete against riders half
his age. Of the greats I have watched, he belongs up near the top with A.
Cordero and L. Pincay.
Richie,Richie, Richie,
The 2 names you just mentioned Cordero and Pincay are included in everyone\'s all time top 5. You can add Arcaro & Shoe, my personal 5th would be Bill Hartack.
Mike Smith, Bailey, Day and go argue for a week to fill out the rest of the top 10 in whatever order you want to. It\'s subjunctive, different eras, purse money etc... Put a gun to my head for the last 2 I\'d go Kent D., Baeza & McCarron for the last spot? This should start some fun :)
Near the top is fine but Big Money Mike ain\'t on MT Rushmore!!!!!
It says a lot about the era that he and Gary Stevens are riding in the last few years that through their late 40 and early 50\'s they are still getting top mounts?
Frank D.
What about European riders? This could become a quasi ryder cup.
Frank:
Hard for me to opine about Hartack and Arcaro, well before my time. And, as I
said in my post, I was speaking about \"riders I have watched\".
You had the advantage of spending time in California, most of what I saw of the
Shoe was when he shipped into Belmont when big money was on the line, though I
must say that Shoe\'s Derby trip on Ferdinand (1986) and his win on Forego in
the slop at Belmont (1976 Marlboro Cup) may have been the two most memorable
rides I have ever seen. One of the greatest ironies in all of sports is that
Shoemaker, for all of the thoroughbred mounts he risked his life on, ended up
paralyzed after rolling over his Ford truck after drinking two glasses of wine.
PVal and Chris Antley in a separate \"what could have been\" kind of category.
Both had mad talent, and I do not think you would argue with that.
My opinion is that Stevens\' and Smith\'s longevity has a lot to do with
advances in human medicine and human training techniques which were not
available to riders of previous generations.
My apologies Bee,
I forgot you\'re not that much older than me :)
No arguements with P Val or The Ant both had all the tools to go along with the demons.
You must have missed the Uncle Bill story about his old friend Vince DeGregory considered the jock agent of jock agents he had the books of Shoe, Pincay, Cordero, Jorge Velasquez, Jacinto Vasquez, Alex Solis & Chris Mccarron all with plaques on Union Ave, along with Victor Espinosa, Joel Roasrio, Darrel McHargue and a couple of other jocks named Art Sherman (yes CC trainer) and Con scamp Errico. He said Antley had more talent than any other rider he had ever seen.
His story of Vince getting an unknown Angel Cordero an audition for Hirsch Jacobs is a classic as well.
Ask Uncle Bill to tell you about the winter at Hialeah when he shared an apartment with Vince and Bobby Frankel!!!
Frank D.
From a \"younger\" guy, give me Cordero, Pincay, McCarron, Ramon Dominguez and Desormeaux as my 5.
As for the age discussion between Frank D and RichieBee, you guys are both father figures for me. in the same way TGAB is a grandfather figure for me....
Jim
So much for trying to give Richie and the \" young gun\" a history lesson.
The parameters are set:
Who are the top 5 jocks that you have seen and or wagered on in your lifetime?
Where is Miff, we might have got Issac Murphy.
Frank D\'s top 5 not in any particular order. Shoe, Pincay, Cordero, Kent D. & Pat Day.
Best by category for me as an CA-based owner and bettor --
Overall (Shoe), Timing (Eddie D), Smart (McCarran), Strength (Pincay), Durable (Stevens).
Yeah I guess I kind of age outed myself by bringing up a 1976 race.
Rating jockeys (across generations no less) should have something for
everybody, anecdotal and statistical (and since this is the TG spot, using the
TG database, who was (is) the ground savingest racerider around?)
Not to mention we all have our favorites. They are not always the riders named
in the \"Top 5\" / \"Top 10\" discussions. I know that Young Jimbo has always been
partial to Ramon Dominguez and going back a bit more, to Rick Wilson, a tough
customer on the lead in Pa and NJ. I have some very good memories of Vince
\"Jimbo\" (no relation) Bracciale when he rode at Monmouth.
Too many statistics available to ignore: winning %, in exacta %, earnings per
mount (dollar/year adjusted of course), graded stakes, record turf, record
dirt, ground saved, ROI, record in photos where winning margin was less than
1/2 length. Sure I am missing a few. MY OPINION: We are fooling ourselves if
we think we are having an enlightened dialogue if some statistical yardstick
is not at least referred to.
That being said, let me add that all of the riders named by Jimbo, Frank
and Strike would put forth a 100% effort in a big race, a graded race. Graded
races make up what percentage of all races run?
Competitiveness, strength (weight), timing, horsemanship, ability to hustle
out of the gate when necessary, finisher (of those I have seen)....
Pincay, Cordero, McCarron, Smith
Other personal favorites who would otherwise never be mentioned in a
discussion like this: Jorge \"Chop Chop\" Chavez, Jacinto \"Hands of Stone\"
Vasquez.
Richie,
thanks for the reminder. how quickly we forget. Not sure how I could have forgotten Ramon. he is my favorite. Edited the original post. Took PVal off, Ramon in.
As for being \"young\", it is unfortunate that the demographics of the population of racing fans is what it is. There is no better sign that this is a dying game we participate than in looking around at the OTB Parlor or track you attend (removing Saratoga from that on the east coast).
I have gone to the Favorites OTB in Toms River with my old man a few times this year and have told him that is basically the only place we can go to where he is the median age and I am \"young\" guy (at 69 and 49 respectively...)
Not a lot of interest in the next generation in our game.
FrankD. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So much for trying to give Richie and the \" young
> gun\" a history lesson.
>
> The parameters are set:
> Who are the top 5 jocks that you have seen and or
> wagered on in your lifetime?
> Where is Miff, we might have got Issac Murphy.
>
> Frank D\'s top 5 not in any particular order. Shoe,
> Pincay, Cordero, Kent D. & Pat Day.
What a tough question, and one where there will never be agreement.
The obvious greatest is Mike Smith.
So many great ones mentioned, being a West Coast guy here are the ones I like.
Stevens, McCarron, Pincay Jr, Eddie D, Kent D.
A guy from the Bay Area who is my all time favorite is Ron Hansen. Saw him win 6 races on Cal Derby Day in the early 90\'s, when the Bay Area colony was pretty good and pretty deep. That day he won on turf, dirt, route, sprint. On the lead or with his patented close. Few, if any, favorites. Loved the way he took out his whip, like a saber. That dude could flat out ride with anyone. Of course, his wild lifestyle caught up with him as most of us know that story.
Honorable mention:
Rosie Napravnik (Fan Favorite)
Chantal Sutherland (Photogenic)
Kayla Stra (Adventurous)
Mary Bacon (Poorest Judgement)
Rosemary Homeister (the only female jockey to win the Clasico del Caribe)
Jimbo:
If we are getting into the age issue, again the statistics are buried there
somewhere. We all know that even with the impressive live gate at this years
BC (nearly 120K over the two days) the game in the present and in the future
will be primarily played online. Would be interesting to somehow extract
information from ADWs as to who is playing, how old they are, and how much
they are playing. Software, syndicates, rebate players, etc.
I agree that this game will for various reasons not be attractive to folks in
their twenties.
In your neck of the woods, I am interested to hear the results of the North
Jersey Casino referendum, which has been tied to the future viability of NJ\'s
two remaining large racetracks, Monmouth and The Meadowlands. Almost all of
the advertising I have seen/heard is AGAINST the opening of North NJ casinos.
Hate to sound apolitical, but this referendum is the only election result I
care about today.
#weRfukteitherway
Even tongue in cheek, negligent not to mention the only female rider who rode
like a man (I will let you amend your post to include her), and to leave off the
\"photogenic\" Diane Nelson, who held her own in a tough NY jocks colony.
OK Chantal out and a slot is open for Elizabeth Taylor or whomever.
I was unfamiliar with Ms. Nelson. Below is a link (I hope) to an article about three (3) pioneers. Interesting to learn one was even married to Fred Astaire.
\"Girls of Racing\" (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-08-25/features/9103030702_1_jockeys-guild-john-giovanni-racing/3)
Mary Bacon:
The Kidnapped Kid
I would comment but this story has it all.
http://www.theracingbiz.com/2014/06/24/today-racing-history-mary-bacon/
Paul,
Hmm... I feel better about your misguided view of Zenyatta being better than Rachel now.
If you can\'t even find a slot for a single east coast or Kentucky based jockey in your top five, there might be a tad of bias in your view.......
Jim
jimbo66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paul,
>
> Hmm... I feel better about your misguided view of
> Zenyatta being better than Rachel now.
>
> If you can\'t even find a slot for a single east
> coast or Kentucky based jockey in your top five,
> there might be a tad of bias in your view.......
>
> Jim
It\'s not misguided. It\'s my opinion, just like you thinking the opposite is yours.
I clearly said I\'m a West Coast guy, so I listed those jockeys. I didn\'t realize you would have problems comprehending that simple statement. That jockey colony was the best around, arguably the best of all time. So if I did name 5 from out here, it\'s not a bad list. I\'ve watched those guys countless more times. I didn\'t see enough of Cordero, Vasquez, etc. to form an opinion.
Every list here contains some sort of bias. Just like your little dig about Zenyatta.
I can\'t wait to hear you tell me how Easy Goer was better than Sunday Silence. Who rode the \"better\" horse to defeat 3 out of 4 times? Wasn\'t it that all time great that belongs on some top 5 lists??
Shoe, Pincay, Smith, Kent D, Mccarron, Stevens. West Coast or not, hard to argue their greatness.
Bettors don\'t collect more money on their bet if the jockey wins more money for the owners (and himself) of the horses he rides. To me, a cheap claiming race is just as important as the BC Classic if it\'s a race I happen to bet. Mikes success does ME no good I only care about how wide he is when I bet him in an overnight race.
A BRILLIANT OBSERVATION.
I\'m sure you spent all 60 hours since the initial post in deep thought and research coming up with such a lucent response.
Nope paul,
That would be a biased opinion (like yours about the jockeys)
Sunday silence rhe better horse, proved it on the track.
Didn\'t realize they didn\'t have TVs on the west coast when Cordero was around.
Listing 5 west coast jockeys as the best just too biased. I thought even for u.
Pretty sure the rest of us east coasters all had lists that included both coasts
Jim,
You\'re taking this way too seriously.
I didn\'t see enough of Cordero, or many of the East Coast jockeys. All I said was here are the 5 that I like. That\'s it.
As far as bias, every list has a bias to it.
Its really not that big of a deal. Lets just drop it.
richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jimbo:
>
> If we are getting into the age issue, again the
> statistics are buried there
> somewhere. We all know that even with the
> impressive live gate at this years
> BC (nearly 120K over the two days) the game in the
> present and in the future
> will be primarily played online. Would be
> interesting to somehow extract
> information from ADWs as to who is playing, how
> old they are, and how much
> they are playing. Software, syndicates, rebate
> players, etc.
>
> I agree that this game will for various reasons
> not be attractive to folks in
> their twenties.
>
> In your neck of the woods, I am interested to hear
> the results of the North
> Jersey Casino referendum, which has been tied to
> the future viability of NJ\'s
> two remaining large racetracks, Monmouth and The
> Meadowlands. Almost all of
> the advertising I have seen/heard is AGAINST the
> opening of North NJ casinos.
> Hate to sound apolitical, but this referendum is
> the only election result I
> care about today.
>
> #weRfukteitherway
Thumbs down, to a significant degree (close to 80%), as I\'m sure you\'ve seen by now.
My opinion\'s colored by the fact I\'m a t-bred guy, but would rather see a portion of the Mth structure dedicated to casino activity than taking a piece of any projected Med action.
Frank,
Typically when there\'s an injustice in any sport( ie: a sportsman who\'s accomplished more than most and not received due accolades)then it\'s appropriate to address the situation.
His record speaks for himself. Sounds to me you want it both ways though. We already have gotten it. Smith\'s a great rider! However, no matter how great he is he wasn\'t able to get Songbird home and the reason is\" Let\'s not forget who carries who\".
That is by no means a shot at you,Smith or Songbird.
Flighted
Yes, Cat, defeated by as large a margin as any referendum in NJ history.
Genting\'s Resort World Casino in Ozone Park a big winner here, probably more so
than the AC casinos, Monmouth/Meadowlands horse breeders in NJ get the short end
of the stick.
richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, Cat, defeated by as large a margin as any
> referendum in NJ history.
>
> Genting\'s Resort World Casino in Ozone Park a big
> winner here, probably more so
> than the AC casinos, Monmouth/Meadowlands horse
> breeders in NJ get the short end
> of the stick.
. . .and oh yeah, I voted . . .