If Irad doesn\'t come down I\'m done with this game.
Fat moron Toscano acting like he\'d to nothin.
F--k it. I\'m done. Beautiful sport run by a bunch of f-----g pigs. It\'s just plain ugly. Can\'t hold a candle to Euro or Australia.
I said that years ago when Steve Cauthen fell off a horse I bet.
I\'m still here
I won\'t disagree that the sport isn\'t run the right way, but as far as this specific inquiry goes, i didn\'t see anything, i\'m not even sure why there was an inquiry to begin with, what did i miss?
Irad leaned in on Franco the entire stretch, brushed him once, intimidated him repeatedly and, to get the nose win, leaned in on him just before the wire. That\'s not a measure of the better horse. That\'s dirty riding. That\'s what\'s become of this sport. It\'s dirty. People cheat. The best cheaters win. No thanks.
Jerry
take a breath and a rest, DQ was not appropriate in this race, not even close. Sorry for your loss
Rich,
One thing that is clear in this thread is that u are WRONG.
Silly statement to say not even close to a DQ.
Watched the head on a couple times, out of curiousity after reading this thread (had no bet)
The winner and second place horse were 4w and 3w entering the stretch. The winner leaned in for most of the stretch causing them to move to 2w and 1w. Then mildly bumped the winner twice in the last 100 yards.
I am not saying it was an auto DQ. I would have called it 60/40, leaning to the DQ only because margin of victory was so narrow, hard to believe the infraction didn\'t affect the outcome.
But it surely was a close call. Saying that in a thread where the author is clearly on \"tilt\" is not just wrong, it is poor form.
Jim
Thank you Jim. I saw the stretch run exactly the same way. I think Ortiz deliberately initiated the last bump just before the wire to get the nose win. Who wins without the bump is anyone\'s guess but that\'s why they ask them not to bump. Stronger enforcement might lead to fewer incidents.
If you watch the head on a few times, it becomes less dramatic. There was some subtle mutual contact early stretch , then a slow , steady, move inward by both horses. Subtle enough that no DQ was warranted, but no question they needed to look at it.
Not even close? Watch the head on. There\'s a lot of bearing in under right hand whipping going on all the while forcing Franco\'s horse inward and off stride at points. It was deliberate and the stewards rewarded Ortiz for it. It makes for dirty racing and racing\'s image is already dirty enough.
Ho! Mutual contact? Why? Because it takes two to touch? Nonsense. Ortiz started in the 4 path, bore in on Franco\'s horse the entire stretch run using his horse to impede the other horse. There was nothing mutual about the cause.
You can even see Ortiz pull on the left rein every time he wants his horse to lean in on Franco\'s horse. That\'s NASCAR stuff. Leave it out of here.
Hard to make a dq there without a rear view as well as a direct head on. There was a point where it appeared that the inside horse came out and bumped the winner. Would a dq there have been the worst dq ever? No, but i don\'t think leaving it up was the worst leave up i\'ve seen there either.
Watch the head on of the first race at Saratoga on Sept 5th. Probably not coincidentally, the same rider involved in what i though was an easy dq, they left this one up also, the 1-5 shot drifted out 10 paths and carried the 2nd place finisher into the parking lot. No change here either. to me, this was more obvious than the one Weds.
The chart caller, who\'s pretty sharp in NY, saw it as mutual contact. Read his call.
Boscsr
We are killing this issue. But I dont need a chart caller, with his 2 eyes, telling me what my own 2 eyes saw. I may prefer the medical opinion of a doctor over my own, but I can promise you that I see the races as well as rhe chart caller.
There was no mutual contact. The winner came in multiple paths. No way to sanely argue against that.
Whether it had to be a DQ or not, certainly debatable. But no doubt WHO committed the foul, IF a foul was called.
Jim
On a scale of 1 to 10 this was a 3. And I\'ve seen them leave up 10\'s
BO, this is a good point and it really comes down to philosophy on what is a disqualifiable (hope that\'s a word!) offense.
If you really wanted to nitpick, I\'m sure you could theoretically make at least 1 dq per race in every race on every day, but would that really be a great idea?
If the standard was zero tolerance and any brush or bump at any point in the race was an automatic dq, is that the judging we would want as bettors? 10 minute inquiry for every race to decide where to place every runner who brushed another runner?
There needs to be a judging standard and while maybe the op\'s example would be a dq in another life at another track at another time, this brush or whatever you want to call it wasn\'t enough to pass the dq standard that these judges have set.
The bigger problem would be is if a similar situation DOES result in a dq a month from now by these same judges.
I did. I disagree with him.
I agree with most of what you\'re saying. Where I think this race is different is the last contact just before the wire. You can see Ortiz tug on the left rein and lean his body to the left to initiate enough contact to cause the other horse to check back. That, I think, is interference and cause for a DQ. The margin of victory was only a nose. I think it mattered.
Maybe the judges just determined this was \'race riding\' and has been part of the game for centuries.
As a gambler, you can yell and scream \"MAKE THAT CHANGE\" but when judges alter results, they tend to keep altering results and more and more races down the line get tampered with. Forgetting about individual specific races for example, it really comes down to how quick do we want our judges to be with their trigger finger. Since i don\'t really trust politially appointed hacks to begin with, i\'d prefer they generally not tamper with physical results, a \'wrong dq\' is more damaging than not putting up a horse who physically lost.
With \'quick trigger finger\' judges, its only a matter of time before they rob your legit winner and pay someone else.
I was waiting for someone to use that term. I\'m sure that\'s why it\'s excused but I don\'t think it should be. You ride your own horse. You don\'t use your horse to block, impeded or herd other horses. I don\'t think horse racing should be about that but I\'ve been around long enough to know that it is. Cordero\'s ride on Codex in the 1980 Preakness stands out as the poster child for that kind of riding. And Gryder\'s gift to Flntshire is another example of, what I call, unfair racing. It\'s not the part of the game that I appreciate at all.
Then get better judges. I would have taken Ortiz down and given him days. It was deliberate interference.
look at the 5th today 9/24 BEL winner came out and bumped the placer late and not even a claim. we need to leave those alone, lest a DQ 5 times a day.
Mostly I agree with you. But how about an old fashioned beat down in the parking lot later to encourage safe riding. When they are again able to walk.
yeah, if its deliberate, but a lot of it is just a result of 1200 lb animals running all out while tired
Usually is the case but in this case it was a steering problem.