\"You say to yourself, \'What\'d we do to make him run like that\', but it\'s hard to say\". -- Kiaran.
I got an idea. Make a list of things you did not just to him, but to Kareena and Cavorting. See what you come up with.
Frosted fooled me when i saw him live and in person at Parx last year. Pranced around the walking ring all muscled up and ran to his looks.
Six weeks later I was salivating at the BC Classic exacta payoffs with AP and walked away from the window with enough to call it the biggest play I ever made. My daughter\'s wedding would be paid for (Italian wedding, 250+ guests---not cheap) in 2 and change.
Buddy of mine who was with me then was with me on Saturday. Told him you just watched the greatest Met Mile performance in history (now ThoroGraph history) from a horse who couldn\'t lift a hoof in the BC when $60K was on the line.
Thanks Kiaran.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
Probably the fastest figure in history.
Was curious about that.
Maybe TG history, nowhere else.
Haven\'t done it yet, but he ran 9 points better than the second horse, at least 10 better than anyone else. I would be interested in hearing about individual performances you think were better than that.
That gets subjective, also no one had Plechers filly,that you gave neg -6 or near that,anywhere near as fast.
Projecting/slaving off a horse that ran 2nd, 3rd or whatever ain\'t the way others make figures when there are enough data points in one turn races of similar distances to establish a constant variant.
Slaving off any horse except the winner, when same day data is available, is a slippery slope.
I was EXTREMELY conservative with that race, as you will see when we post it. And he ran the best figure of all time.
The horses that ran behind FROSTED is also (data.) Why avoid it?
Best Beyers of all time:
Horse Year earned Speed Figure Cite
Groovy 1987 134 [1]
Groovy 1987 131 [1]
Ghostzapper 2004 128 [1]
Formal Gold 1997 126 [1]
Gentlemen 1997 126
Will\'s Way 2007 126 [1]
Formal Gold 1997 125 [1]
Skip Away 1997 125 [1]
Bertrando 1993 125
Sunday Silence 1989 124
Easy Goer 1989 124
Formal Gold 1997 124 [1]
Artax 1999 124 [1]
Ghostzapper 2004 124
Midnight Lute 2007 124
Frosted 2016 123
Commentator 2005 123
Artax 1999 123 [1]
Easy Goer 1989 122
Alysheba 1988 122
Holy Bull 1994 121
Quality Road 2011 121
American Pharoah2015 120
On your stuff only. Looking at the times of several races, it\'s easy to see you are over indulged by beaten lengths and not the clock. Several ordinary horses THAT DAY ran past the mile mark only 2-3points slower than Frosted, none of them are near the TG neg -2 or -3 range.
Uhhhh... what?
Just on time, unadjusted for weight, ground or variant, there\'s not another race at a mile or over that goes in a time/figure within 4 points. He went more than 2 seconds faster than Carina Mia.
And yes, the track did slow down a little as the day went on, not just for that race. And there was some wind, which can make a difference with that long a straightaway.
And? Your point?
Listen, I like those guys, what they sell is good value for the money. But a) there\'s a reason people pay $25 per track for ours, and b) what you see there is a function of using claiming pars, as I\'ve explained before.
In deep water re updated pars and updated parallel time charts being inferior to going off horses and backing into numbers.The track slowed later? Not according to time of the Belmont or the last race.
I\'ll leave it there.
Hopefully I can remember this when Mohaymen goes in the Travers
RE: a) there\'s a reason people pay $25 per track for ours
\"what they sell is good value for the money\"
CRITICAL ANALYSIS. ;-)
I wonder what AP may have developed into?
Maybe you can learn a thing or two from the Trumpster .... like stay on the attack.
Say enough good things about the competition and folks might use critical analysis and decide the cheaper option is the better value.
They are not our competition. Them being value at their price has nothing to do with us being value at ours. If you handle $100 a day or less you should be using them.
TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And? Your point?
>
> Listen, I like those guys, what they sell is good
> value for the money. But a) there\'s a reason
> people pay $25 per track for ours, and b) what you
> see there is a function of using claiming pars, as
> I\'ve explained before.
It\'s called conversation fodder, in response to a back and forth about the best numbers in history and what other performances could vie with the title that you are bestowing to Frosted. As I\'d just looked up the list last night and had it at hand, I thought that a decent list of performances.
If you\'re looking for someone other than Beyer, then the only other one I\'ve heard so far is TimeFormUS who gave him a point lower than AP.
The 123 Beyer for Frosted is at least ballpark, you can\'t compare generations using Beyer because of the par thing.
By the time we got to the 2004 DRF Expo Andy had realized (since I had discussed it here) why using pars doesn\'t work, and he said, sitting 3 feet from me, that they no longer used them. They clearly had used them historically, which is why the old figures come up so fast. And I have reason to believe they still do.
I\'m shocked at the TimeFormUS thing. No race AP ever ran is close to the figure Frosted just ran. That\'s not about accomplishment or who is a better horse, it\'s best performance vs best performance.
For what it\'s worth (and it isnt much considering i don\'t sell figures and am not a pro figure maker) i make my own figures along with a couple of guys. And on our stuff we have Frosty running what would equate to TG -7.5 and that\'s AFTER breaking the race out and adjusting it down (slower) by a full point from the varient and what it works out to organically, which i\'m not sure we should be doing. If anything its faster, not slower than that. You can\'t make it any slower IMO. The horse freaked and exploded in the stretch. Period. Maybe he thought AP was still somewhere out there, in front of him still...
Maybe they adjusted the fig, but last I saw the BC for AP they gave a 138, and Frosted got a 135 for the Mile. AP\'s was the fastest BC ever and made him the equal highest-rated US racehorse (Cigar) - according to timeformUS.
Candy Ride earned a 123 in the 2003 Pacific Classic.
http://www.lanesend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/DRF-Racing-PPs-Candy-Ride.pdf
Medaglia d\'Oro earned a 120 in the \'02 Jim Dandy.
Thanks Vagrant. I thought it seemed a shorter list than I thought. We thought Lawyer Ron had run a 120+ number once but haven\'t gone looking.